I was just burgling my way through the sewers again, and had an odd thought about the relationship between the Kindred as a whole and the Nosferatu specificallly. It was always picking at the back of my mind, but it didn't jell until just now.
Have you noticed that the Nos refer to other Kindred as "Boss"? That's a verbal twitch that's fairly easy to dismiss entirely. Except that's not the only place I've heard it. In American State Prisons, especially in the southern USA, "Boss" is what the inmates call the guards (at least if TV and the Movies are to be believed - I've never actually been inside an American State Prison).
One wonders if this doesn't speak specifically to the mind-set of the Nosferatu and the relationship (at least from their point of view) between the Nossies and the rest of the Kindred. Any thoughts?
Nosferatu Mind-set
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yrthwyndandfyre
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Nosferatu Mind-set
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
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MalaksBane
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I think the relationship between the Nos and the rest of Kindred is almost analogous to a master and his pets. I can see the similarities brought up by Yrthwyndandfyre however, and the inmate reference (interesting indeed). But I have seen this kind of relationship in other medium as well. Not only is it in this game, but it was referenced in the short-lived show Kindred: the Embraced (which was expected seeing as it was produced by the same folks), and fans of Forever Knight can see a similar mindset on the "carouche"; a kind of Nosferatu-like vampire in that world as well.
Despite all that, I don't think the Camarilla could function in todays civilized society without the information the Nos provide. And I love Gary's character regardless.
Despite all that, I don't think the Camarilla could function in todays civilized society without the information the Nos provide. And I love Gary's character regardless.
Sine Pyramide nihil sumus
[url="http://archon-jonus.livejournal.com"]Jonus' Chaos[/url]
[url="http://archon-jonus.livejournal.com"]Jonus' Chaos[/url]
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=Jonus]Not only is it in this game, but it was referenced in the short-lived show Kindred: the Embraced (which was expected seeing as it was produced by the same folks), and fans of Forever Knight can see a similar mindset on the "carouche"; a kind of Nosferatu-like vampire in that world as well.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I'm fine with the Nosferatu. They are more of a vampire, IMHO, than anybody else. It's fascinating that you bring up "Forever Knight", though. In that world (Toronto, been there, done that, and it's a lot worse than it looks), isn't a "carouche" a vampire created from a being who was never human to begin with? Dogs, wolves and such? I'm a little light on my "Forever Knight" history of late, but I seem to recall an at least apparrently human "carouche" from one episode, but I think that vampire was created from the bite of a vampire "carouche" dog that bit a human, so he was "carouche" in the sense of being a vampire that was created from a vampire that was not formerly human. A lesser bloodline, if you will.
In any case, that wouldn't apply in this world. In this world, to embrace, you must drink a person to the brink of death, and then bring them back by feeding them your blood. An animal would not have the sense to perform that final act of compassion (or retribution), so in the VTMB world, a creature like a carouche would be, at best, unlikely. In "Forever Knight", to create a vampire, all you have to do is feed and not kill.
Oh, I'm fine with the Nosferatu. They are more of a vampire, IMHO, than anybody else. It's fascinating that you bring up "Forever Knight", though. In that world (Toronto, been there, done that, and it's a lot worse than it looks), isn't a "carouche" a vampire created from a being who was never human to begin with? Dogs, wolves and such? I'm a little light on my "Forever Knight" history of late, but I seem to recall an at least apparrently human "carouche" from one episode, but I think that vampire was created from the bite of a vampire "carouche" dog that bit a human, so he was "carouche" in the sense of being a vampire that was created from a vampire that was not formerly human. A lesser bloodline, if you will.
In any case, that wouldn't apply in this world. In this world, to embrace, you must drink a person to the brink of death, and then bring them back by feeding them your blood. An animal would not have the sense to perform that final act of compassion (or retribution), so in the VTMB world, a creature like a carouche would be, at best, unlikely. In "Forever Knight", to create a vampire, all you have to do is feed and not kill.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
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FriendoftheDork
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Nosferatu has long been considered a "low clan", and perhaps the lowest of the low. It's not until the modern nights they have gained the power they have - information.
Still despite their newfound power in information, they are still ugly as hell and not something you would want in your living room. Kind of like a useful cat that kills rats, you don't want it bringing it into your house.
Still despite their newfound power in information, they are still ugly as hell and not something you would want in your living room. Kind of like a useful cat that kills rats, you don't want it bringing it into your house.
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=FriendoftheDork]Nosferatu has long been considered a "low clan", and perhaps the lowest of the low. It's not until the modern nights they have gained the power they have - information.[/QUOTE]
True. Information has always been power, but analogous to the Nosferatu, only recently has society in general recognised that power to the degree that Geeks have become not only socially acceptable, but devoutly coveted.
Accordingly, whatever status the Nos may have had in the past, they have likewise become valued for their skills in information gathering and processing despite having every other strike against them. They may be ugly, terrible, gross, disgusting, and whatever else, but they are, to quote the doctrine, "Information brokers without peer". Thus, immensely valuable in and of themselves in the modern night. Ugly and Gross? Yes. Do you want one on your team? Yes.
True. Information has always been power, but analogous to the Nosferatu, only recently has society in general recognised that power to the degree that Geeks have become not only socially acceptable, but devoutly coveted.
Accordingly, whatever status the Nos may have had in the past, they have likewise become valued for their skills in information gathering and processing despite having every other strike against them. They may be ugly, terrible, gross, disgusting, and whatever else, but they are, to quote the doctrine, "Information brokers without peer". Thus, immensely valuable in and of themselves in the modern night. Ugly and Gross? Yes. Do you want one on your team? Yes.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
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FriendoftheDork
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- Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:06 am
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[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]True. Information has always been power, but analogous to the Nosferatu, only recently has society in general recognised that power to the degree that Geeks have become not only socially acceptable, but devoutly coveted.
Accordingly, whatever status the Nos may have had in the past, they have likewise become valued for their skills in information gathering and processing despite having every other strike against them. They may be ugly, terrible, gross, disgusting, and whatever else, but they are, to quote the doctrine, "Information brokers without peer". Thus, immensely valuable in and of themselves in the modern night. Ugly and Gross? Yes. Do you want one on your team? Yes.[/QUOTE]
Yes you sure want your Nossie on your side, but not socialize with them in Elysium. The old prejudice is not completely lost, and as you said they are ugly, terrible, gross, disgusting and... they stink.
My next character is gonna be a nossie, quite a change from the mindsets of my Ventrue, Toreador and even Malkav characters.
Accordingly, whatever status the Nos may have had in the past, they have likewise become valued for their skills in information gathering and processing despite having every other strike against them. They may be ugly, terrible, gross, disgusting, and whatever else, but they are, to quote the doctrine, "Information brokers without peer". Thus, immensely valuable in and of themselves in the modern night. Ugly and Gross? Yes. Do you want one on your team? Yes.[/QUOTE]
Yes you sure want your Nossie on your side, but not socialize with them in Elysium. The old prejudice is not completely lost, and as you said they are ugly, terrible, gross, disgusting and... they stink.
My next character is gonna be a nossie, quite a change from the mindsets of my Ventrue, Toreador and even Malkav characters.
[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]I was just burgling my way through the sewers again, and had an odd thought about the relationship between the Kindred as a whole and the Nosferatu specificallly. It was always picking at the back of my mind, but it didn't jell until just now.
Have you noticed that the Nos refer to other Kindred as "Boss"? That's a verbal twitch that's fairly easy to dismiss entirely. Except that's not the only place I've heard it. In American State Prisons, especially in the southern USA, "Boss" is what the inmates call the guards (at least if TV and the Movies are to be believed - I've never actually been inside an American State Prison).
One wonders if this doesn't speak specifically to the mind-set of the Nosferatu and the relationship (at least from their point of view) between the Nossies and the rest of the Kindred. Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
I always saw it as a vernacular expression (common in parts of Englands, esp. the south). IIRC Gary does have a sort of english accent. At any rate, the voice actor for Gary (Neil Ross, is from London. And we have all sorts wonderful expressions over here that Americans seem to love
.
I don't see as anything other then if he said "mate" or "pal" or any other expressions possible.
Could be wrong though.
Have you noticed that the Nos refer to other Kindred as "Boss"? That's a verbal twitch that's fairly easy to dismiss entirely. Except that's not the only place I've heard it. In American State Prisons, especially in the southern USA, "Boss" is what the inmates call the guards (at least if TV and the Movies are to be believed - I've never actually been inside an American State Prison).
One wonders if this doesn't speak specifically to the mind-set of the Nosferatu and the relationship (at least from their point of view) between the Nossies and the rest of the Kindred. Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
I always saw it as a vernacular expression (common in parts of Englands, esp. the south). IIRC Gary does have a sort of english accent. At any rate, the voice actor for Gary (Neil Ross, is from London. And we have all sorts wonderful expressions over here that Americans seem to love
. I don't see as anything other then if he said "mate" or "pal" or any other expressions possible.
Could be wrong though.
[QUOTE=Xennex]I always saw it as a vernacular expression (common in parts of Englands, esp. the south). IIRC Gary does have a sort of english accent. At any rate, the voice actor for Gary (Neil Ross, is from London. And we have all sorts wonderful expressions over here that Americans seem to love .
I don't see as anything other then if he said "mate" or "pal" or any other expressions possible.
Could be wrong though.[/QUOTE]
I think that's where they are pulling the idium from. It's unclear whether Gary is suppose to be "English", though. I really just think they borrowed the expression (or the voice actor did) to emphasize the playful maliciousness they wanted Gary to possess. My inclination is that he is not. He's "Gorgeous Gary Golden," who I've always taken to be a 1950's golden age of American cinema type of leading man.
White Wolf lore often has the Nosferatu playing the role of the submissive, deferential kindred whose claws and true colors only come out at the opportune moments. They generally accept their low status in Elysium and the hautiness of the "pretty" clans, while secretly earning their upper hand over the other kindred through information gathering and planning. As such, the leading Nosferatu generally know more than the Prince of a given city, and will toy with the other kindred with the sort of mocking playfulness brilliantly epitomized by Gary. So, while phrases such as "Boss" are not common among Nosferatu, the type of underlying attitude emphasized by the use of the phrase is.
. I don't see as anything other then if he said "mate" or "pal" or any other expressions possible.
Could be wrong though.[/QUOTE]
I think that's where they are pulling the idium from. It's unclear whether Gary is suppose to be "English", though. I really just think they borrowed the expression (or the voice actor did) to emphasize the playful maliciousness they wanted Gary to possess. My inclination is that he is not. He's "Gorgeous Gary Golden," who I've always taken to be a 1950's golden age of American cinema type of leading man.
White Wolf lore often has the Nosferatu playing the role of the submissive, deferential kindred whose claws and true colors only come out at the opportune moments. They generally accept their low status in Elysium and the hautiness of the "pretty" clans, while secretly earning their upper hand over the other kindred through information gathering and planning. As such, the leading Nosferatu generally know more than the Prince of a given city, and will toy with the other kindred with the sort of mocking playfulness brilliantly epitomized by Gary. So, while phrases such as "Boss" are not common among Nosferatu, the type of underlying attitude emphasized by the use of the phrase is.