Spending xp and free skillups *SPOILER*

[shep42]

In an attempt to figure out the best way to spend my xp, I've distilled information gathered from various posts and my own experience with the game into a single post. I'm not good an explaining things, so I'm just going to dump some numbers and thoughts. These observations are based on the official 1.2 version of the game.

This may very well take the fun out of experimenting with different ways of building characters and if you are the type of player that doesn't like "cookie-cutter character builds", then you may not want to read further. However, if you are interested in reading someone's thoughts on how to best spend (and save) xp, then read on.

In an attempt to reduce the impact of my spoilers, I've refrained from mentioning book or npc locations and any quest details. However, since the nature of the content could be considered a spoiler, I've blackened it all out.

Spoiler

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[SPOILER]Skillup xp costs:

Attribute Cost:  0, 4,  8, 12, 16
Ability Cost:    3, 3,  6,  9, 12[/SPOILER]

Research xp costs
-----------------
The following chart shows how many Mental (M) dots, Knowledges (K) dots, the starting Research (R) level, and the starting Intelligence (I) and Scholarship (S) levels. The idea is to put all Mental dots in Intelligence and all Knowledges dots (up to 2) in Scholarship. It then shows how much xp needs to be spent to get Research 4 through 10 as well as the Intelligence and Scholarship levels at each Research level.

The first free Scholarship skillup you get from Beckett requires that you have Scholarhip 1 or 2. Knowing that, do not start Scholarship any higher than 2, but start it as high as you can (up to 2). In the chart, the column for Research 5 (R5) represents getting Scholarship 3 from Beckett.

The xp cost listed for each Research level does not include any previous (lower level) costs. For example, Brujah needs a total of 11xp for Research 6: 3xp for R4 (buying Scholarship 2) and 8xp for R6 (buying Intelligence 3).

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[SPOILER]Clan       M K R I/S   R4 I/S   R5 I/S*   R6 I/S
---------  - - - ---   -- ---   -- ---    -- ---
Brujah     1 1 3 2/1    3 2/2    0 2/3     8 3/3
Gangrel    1 1 3 2/1    3 2/2    0 2/3     8 3/3
Malkavian  2 3 5 3/2    0 3/2    0 3/3     0 3/3
Nosferatu  2 2 5 3/2    0 3/2    0 3/3     0 3/3
Toreador   1 2 4 2/2    0 2/2    0 2/3     8 3/3
Tremere    2 3 5 3/2    0 3/2    0 3/3     0 3/3
Ventrue    1 3 4 2/2    0 2/2    0 2/3     8 3/3[/SPOILER]

*Beckett giving Scholarship 3


At this point, everyone is at Intelligence 3 and Scholarship 3. Any further advancement costs the same no matter the clan. The costs then depend on how high you want to get Research.

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[SPOILER]R7 I/S
-- ---
 0 3/4                              =  0 (nothing needs Research 7)


R7 I/S   R8 I/S
-- ---   -- ---
 9 3/4    0 3/5                     =  9 (Dodge 5 book)


R7 I/S   R8 I/S   R9 I/S
-- ---   -- ---   -- ---
 9 3/4   12 4/4    0 4/5            = 21 (Melee 5 and Computer 5 books)


R7 I/S   R8 I/S   R9 I/S   R10 I/S
-- ---   -- ---   -- ---   --- ---
 9 3/4   12 4/4   16 5/4     0 5/5  = 37 (Firearms 5 book)[/SPOILER]

Getting Research 7+
-------------------
The cheapest way to get Research 7+ is to get the second free Scholarship skillup from Beckett. From what I've read, you need Scholarship 4 or less and Research 6 or higher. If you've followed my chart and are at Research 6 (Intelligence 3, Scholarship 3), you could just get Scholarship 4 from Beckett and have Research 7, but nothing needs Research 7. So buy Intelligence 4 (9xp), which is cheapter than Scholarship 4 (12xp).

Now, at Research 7 (Intelligence 4, Scholarship 3), if your goal is only Research 8 (to use Dodge 5 book), then all you need is to get Scholarship 4 from Beckett. Otherwise, it is cheaper to buy Scholarship 4 (12xp) than Intelligence 5 (16xp).

Now, at Research 8 (Intelligence 4, Scholarship 4), if you goal is Research 9 (to use Melee 5 book or Computer 5 book), then all you need is to get Scholarship 5 from Beckett. Otherwise, you MUST buy Intelligence 5 (16xp) because you can't buy Scholarship 5 since that is what Beckett will give you.

Now, at Research 9 (Intelligence 5, Scholarship 4), you just get Scholarship 5 from Beckett to hit Research 10 and use the Firearms 5 book. Now, wasn't that worth it? 37xp to get Research 10 or 12xp to buy Firearms 5? Hmm.. Tough call. :\

Since buying Firearms 5 is cheaper than Research 10, you will already have Melee 5, and the Computer skill is worthless; it only makes any kind of sense to stop at Research 8 (for 9xp) so you can use the Dodge 5 book. That is assuming of course, you think Dodge 5 is worth spending the 9xp to get Research 8 in addition to the 15xp to buy Dodge 3 and 4. In my experience, Dodge 3+ isn't as useful as spending the 24xp someplace else. Unless, of course, you don't need anything else. Then, by all means, get Dodge 5.



In my opinion, Research 5 is the sweet spot. Not only do all but 2 clans get Research 5 for free (Brujah and Gangrel only need to spend 3xp), the books that require Research 6+ are, arguably, not as useful as one might think. However, 8xp (or 0xp depending on clan) for Research 6 isn't that big a deal and it saves you 15xp for Security 4 and 15xp for Finance 4 (sort of, read below about Finance).



These charts shows the costs associated to getting skillups from books and NPCs.

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[SPOILER]Clan       Brawl 4 Dodge 2
---------  ------- -------
Brujah     3 + R5     0    
Gangrel    3 + R5     0    
Malkavian  0 + R5     0    
Nosferatu  0 + R5     0    
Toreador   0 + R5     0    
Tremere    0 + R5     0    
Ventrue    0 + R5     0    


Clan       Firearms 3  Melee 5*    Security 4*  Stealth 2 
---------  ----------- ----------  ------------ ----------
Brujah          0      0/3/6 + R5   0/3/6 + R6      0     
Gangrel         0      0/3/- + R5   0/3/- + R6      0     
Malkavian       0      0/3/6 + R5   0/3/6 + R6      0     
Nosferatu       0      0/3/- + R5   0/3/- + R6      0     
Toreador        0      -/3/6 + R5   -/3/6 + R6      0     
Tremere         0      -/3/6 + R5   -/3/6 + R6      0     
Ventrue         0      -/3/6 + R5   -/3/6 + R6      0     


Clan       Computer 2  Finance 5 
---------  ----------- ----------
Brujah           0       6 + R6
Gangrel          0       6 + R6
Malkavian        0       3 + R6
Nosferatu        0       6 + R6
Toreador         0       6 + R6
Tremere          0       3 + R6
Ventrue          0       3 + R6[/SPOILER]

...

[shep42]

continued

...

Spoiler

*Starting Melee and Security
-----------------------------
You need to have Melee 2 before using the Melee 3/4 book. You also need Security 2 before using the Security 3/4 book. You should put all your starting Skills dots in one or both of these. It doesn't matter which ones you do since the first two dots of all Abilities cost 3xp each.

Gangrel and Nosferatu start with 3, so put 2 in Melee or Security and 1 in the other. Then you only need to spend 3xp to get the 2nd.

Brujah and Malkavian start with 2 so put 2 in Melee or Security (or 1 in each), then buy the remaing 2 dots for 6xp total.

Toreador, Tremere and Ventrue only start with 1, so choose Melee or Security and then buy the remaining 3 dots for 9xp total.

You can do this because the other 2 Skills, Firearms and Stealth, both have starter books that give you 2 dots each. So, you don't need to put dots in these.




Brawl 4
-------
Start with 1.

Everyone starts with at least 1 dot in Talents. Put 1 dot in Brawl and any leftover into either Intimidation or Subterfuge. Nines gives a Brawl skillup for Brawl 2. Then use Brawl 3/4 book (research 5) to get Brawl 4. Total cost is getting Research 5, which only Brujah and Gangrel need to spend xp to get it (3xp).

If you want Brawl 5, you have to buy it for 12xp.


Dodge 2
-------
If you can wait to get the Dodge 1/2 book, then start with 0. Else dump all but 1 (for Brawl) in Dodge.

The Dodge 1/2 book (research 2) gets you Dodge 2. Since everyone starts with Research 3+, there is no cost for anyone to get Dodge 2.

If you want Dodge 5, then you need to buy Dodge 3 and 4 (15xp). Then you need to get Research 8 because Research 8 is cheaper than Dodge 5. It's cheaper to buy Scholarship 4 (9xp) than Intelligence 4 (12xp). Then, the second Scholarship skillup from Beckett will get you 8.

If you can't wait to get the Scholarship skillup from Beckett, then you'll need to buy either Intelligence 4 (12xp), Scholarship 5 (12xp) or just buy Dodge 5 (12xp). If you buy Intelligence 4, then you can still get Scholarship 5 from Beckett and have Research 9. Then you could use the Melee 5 book. Oops.. No.. You already have Melee 5.

Like I said earlier, I don't think getting Dodge 3+ is really all that worth it. I guess it depends on your play style, but if you're getting hit enough that you need Defense to survive, then you might want to think about changing your play style. If you're playing a "tank", then you probably have stuff like Fortitude or Blood Shield. Yeah Defense helps, but not enough to justify the cost.


Firearms 3
----------
Start with 0.

The Firearms 1/2 book (Research 3) gets you Firearms 2. Romero can give you Firearms 3. Since everyone starts with Research 3+, there is no cost for anyone to get Firearms 3.

If you want Firearms 5, you must first buy Firearms 4. Then either buy Firearms 5 or use the Firearms 5 book (Research 10!!). Like I mentioned above (in getting Research 10), 37xp to get Research 10 is too much when Firearms 5 only costs 12xp.


Melee 5
-------
Start with 0, 1 or 2.

The point spread in the chart represents the total cost if you need to buy (spend xp) 0, 1 or 2 dots (read "Starting Melee and Security" above). Toreador, Tremere and Ventrue only start with 1 dot in Skills, so it is not possible for them to start with 2 dots - they MUST buy either 1 or 2 dots. The Melee 3/4 book (Research 5) gets you Melee 4. Nines can give you Melee 5. The total cost is the cost of getting reasearch 5 (3xp for Brujah and Gangrel) plus 3 or 6 if you have to buy 1 or 2 dots.


Security 4
----------
Start with 0, 1 or 2.

The point spread in the chart represents the total cost if you need to buy (spend xp) 0, 1 or 2 dots (read "Starting Melee and Security" above). Toreador, Tremere and Ventrue only start with 1 dot in Skills, so it is not possible for them to start with 2 dots - they MUST buy either 1 or 2 dots. The Security 3/4 book (Research 6) will get you Security 4. The total cost is the cost of getting Research 6 (11xp for Brujah and Gangrel, 8xp for Toreador and Ventru) plus 3 or 6 if you have to buy 1 or 2 dots.

If you want Security 5, you'll have to buy it (12xp).


Stealth 2
---------
Start with 0.

The Stealth 1/2 book (Research 2) gets you Stealth 2. Since everyone starts with Research 3+, there is no cost for anyone to get Stealth 2. With Blood Buff, that's Sneaking 7 and is sufficient for any sneaking you need to do throughout the game. It's my opinion that you do not need to raise Stealth - unless you want to.

You'll have to buy any further skillups (4, 8 and 12xp respectively).


Computer 2
----------
Start with 0.

The Computer 1/2 book (Research 2) will get you Computer 2. Since everyone starts with Research 3+, there is no clost for anyone to get Computer 2. Not that it helps or anything since all the passwords are posted - nobody ever really NEEDS the computer skill. Spend the xp elsewhere.

If you want Computer 5, you'll have to buy Computer 3 and 4 (rumor has it that Betrum Tung will give you Computer 4) and 5 - or use Computer 5 book (Research 9!!).


Finance 5
---------
Start with 0 (Brujah, Gangrel, Nosferatu, Toreador) or 1 (Malkavian, Tremere, Ventrue because they start with 3 and 2 go into Scholarship; Investigation is useless and Computer has a starter book).

If you actually WANT to get Finance 5, the cheapest would be to get Finance 2 (3 or 6xp depending on clan), then use the Finance 3/4 book (Research 6), then have Fat Larry give you Finance 5.

Alternatively, if Finance 4 is ok with you, reduce the cost by 3. Have Fat Larry give you Finance 2, then use the book to get Finance 4.

Or if, like me, you don't think Finance isn't anything to get excited about - don't put anything in Finance and sell the book when you get it.