dedicated to true rock icons

McBane · Post by **McBane** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:25 am

Brian Setzer.

I loved the Stray Cats, and his orchestra really does great music.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:57 am

Hendrix did not change music. Who has been influenced by him? Noone. There are those influenced by the hippy movement, but it would have been just as big without him.

Lou Reed didn't change music. Cale was the innovator, and the scene would have been just about as great without him...ps sleep have you read the Bokris(sp?) biography? I read it a week ago or so...

The Doors are bollocks.

I'm pretty sure The Who's influence died pretty quickly, and queen are not that exciting. A lot of their tunes are nicked of The Beatles, and they didn't invent Glam, so we can leave them out...

but aren't we all forgetting....

Lee "Scratch" Perry ? The first DJ? The first man to sample? The absolute beggining of dub and arguably reggae and hence pretty much all dance music? The man who plugged a coconut into a microphone in order to get the 'rhythm of Africa'? He was a god. The other real innovators and influences IMHO are:

Dylan
The Beatles
Bowie
Afriika Bambaata
Cool DJ Herc
Pink Floyd

if I've left any out please tell.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:14 am

I believe this discussion was originally intended to discuss rock and roll. I don't think anyone would argue the influences of run DMC, madonna, and lee scratch perry on the history of music in their respective genres. However, I don't think they apply to rock and roll. Sure, once in a while a hard rock band will come along and use sampling (RATM) or rap (anthrax) but for the most part I don't think these elements apply to Aragornreturns intended subject. I am just as guilty for mentioning SRV, The Clash, and the Police.

@frogus, do you really believe Jimi Hendrix has influenced not one single person? And you say he didn't change music. Perhaps you should investigate biographies of other bands who were on the scene during the same few short years as hendrix. They think otherwise.

Also frogus to your list, I'd add robert johnson.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:15 am

When you talk about "influential" musical acts, you have to measure them against two scales:

The first are the rock n' roll innovators. These are the people who changed the fundamentals of rock music and/or brought something new to music in general. Most are popularly successful (ie-The Beatles, Madonna), while others are obscure (ie-Frank Zappa). You don't have to like them, and in fact many take a lot of pride in being hated, but you must acknowledge their influence.

In this category, I would put Elvis (rock n'roll's first "bad boy"), The Beatles (rock's first boy band), Led Zepplin, Eddie van Halen, R.E.M. (the standard-bearer for alternative music in the 80s), Nirvana (the benchmark for grunge in the 90s), Run DMC, Madonna (see my posts above), the Talking Heads, the Rolling Stones and probably a dozen or so other acts.

The other category of musical influence are the people who sell out stadiums, make rock n' roll fun and that people look at and say, "I want to be a rock star!" They aren't necessarily musically original, but their contribution to rock n' roll is equally indeniable because kids grow up wanting to be like them, and every now and then one of them makes it.

Jimmy Buffett, The Who, Kiss, Bruce Springsteen, Queen, Aerosmith and just about every other act with a following falls into this category. Musicians immitate each other. If something is successful, everyone tries to copy them. Our friend frogus says that Hendrix wasn't influential; he's wrong if for no other reason than because after the first three notes of "The Star Spangled Banner" at Woodstock, everyone knows it's Hendrix. He is one of the most immitated guitarists in rock n' roll. He could get more out of his instrument than almost any other guitarist of his time (excepting maybe Clapton and a couple of others), but his influence was stymied by his early death.

You also have to consider the longevity of an act's body of work in order to measure influence, although even that is sometimes unindicitive. Take Nirvana for example; they were by musical standards a flash in the pan, but they were at the forefront of a movement that changed music in the 90s. Then consider a group like The Who that have been around for years and in between farewell tours still appear to be going strong. Is The Who a better band than Nirvana? Maybe not, but I'll bet you more people have seen The Who in concert than ever saw Nirvana play. That has to count for something.

Beldin · Post by **Beldin** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:16 am

Originally posted by frogus
Hendrix did not change music. Who has been influenced by him?

How about every ***ing single guitar player who stepped on a stage to play what's become known as "Rock" ?

You might not like Hendrix - or the music he played, but you can't discount his influence, frogus.

No worries,

Beldin

**turns up "Purple Haze" 2 notches on the amplifier and sits back**

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:43 pm

now now!! Why are we all assuming that I dislike Hendrix because I think that he has had no (or very little) influence? I think we are violating our own beliefs. We did say that one may dislike but not discount the influence of Hendrix. It does not follow at all that anyone who discounts his influence dislikes him. So for the record, I am a massive Hendrix fan (or as massive as one can be without being alive in the 70s) but am able to say he hasn't had influence without tarnishing my respect for him.

Okay, sorry I forgot it was rock music only, Bambata, Herc and Perry are withdrawn...

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:45 pm

ps Peace in Mississippi greatest Hendrix track ever.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:45 pm

Originally posted by frogus
now now!! Why are we all assuming that I dislike Hendrix because I think that he has had no (or very little) influence? I think we are violating our own beliefs. We did say that one may dislike but not discount the influence of Hendrix. It does not follow at all that anyone who discounts his influence dislikes him. So for the record, I am a massive Hendrix fan (or as massive as one can be without being alive in the 70s) but am able to say he hasn't had influence without tarnishing my respect for him.

He did effect the hedonistic phase of the 70's somewhat as did the Rolling Stones, they both added to a change in the activities and awareness of many of the people that lived during those years.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:02 pm

what about trixter???

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:53 pm

What about Cream? They made base music good.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:15 pm

i guess the idea of my orignal post has been somewhat corrupted, i meant to it be artists that continued to play hard rock and good music even though the popular music at the time was different than what they were playing. but whatever. i like a lot of the music you guys are talking about. the only one that i really don't agree with at all is maddona. it seems to me that she didn't really change music, do anything spectacular, play good music or really do anything important at all. you may see this differently but she just seems like any old pop star to me, kind of like a britney spears but just a little bit better. i understand the whole music video thing, but i think that michael jackson used the music video much much better and really changed it. i think we should remove maddona from our list of good artists. you may think i'm a weirdo but i think that bob dylan deserves some credit with the music video. he made the subterrainian homesick blues clip before they even had music videos.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:24 pm

I think whats classified as modern rock is really so diverse that it has drawn upon many sources.
Jimi Hendrix is, the key guitar man EVER. He showed the world just what you can do with the intrument.
And my personal favourite, Billy Idol and the Sex pistols, who invented punk rock!

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:44 pm

I'm in agreement with Sleep about Lou Reed. He was innovative, esp. in lyrics. He studied poetry under Delmore Schwartz and I think he brought that sensibility to his music. He is the first musician I remember writing lyrics about people no one wanted to talk about, junkies, whores, sado-masochists, speed-freaks, wife-beaters. I remember finding a copy of his album, Berlin, in 1975 in the cut-out bin at the local head shop. It blew my mind, had never heard anyone sing about those kind of things in the way he did. Without the strength of Lou Reed's lyrics, the Velvet Underground would have gone nowhere. I think a year later I found a copy of Iggy Pop's The Idiot for $1 in a cut-out bin too. Seems I was ahead of my time. By the time Punk Rock came along, I was good and ready for it, and sooo sick of bands like Supertramp, Yes, Rush, Fleetwood Mac, etc. Besides Iggy Pop, another innovator that comes to mind is Patti Smith. I was into reading Creem magazine back then--Lester Bangs did the funniest interviews. I had a poster of Lou Reed tacked to my door that said, "Wanted: Lou Reed for turning a generation of Young Americans into ***got junkies." My mom got really pissed at me one time and ripped off. LOL

I never got into Nirvana. After living in Austin for 10 years and living through the punk/hardcore scene there, running sound for bands, etc., I felt that the success of Nirvana was a sign of the death of independent music. That's when the major label record company monopoly in the US took over.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 6:03 pm

Liking or not liking their music, I would list the following people as very influencial for the development of rock music (leaving out a lot of other genres like disco, techno, funk or hiphop):

Elvis Presley
The Beatles
Jimi Hendrix
Rolling Stones
David Bowie
New York Dolls
Iggy and the Stoogies (later Iggy Pop as a solo artist)
Sex Pistols
Robert Fripp (you might not know who he is, he's a "guitarist's guitarist")

Deep purple as the fathers of heavy metal and such

Like Jace, I fail to see what principally new elements Springsteen added, perhaps somebody can argue for this?

The 1990's I'm more uncertain about, I didn't follow rock music during the 90's since I found the genre stale.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 6:07 pm

i'd have to say that the velvet underground are one the greatest bands of all time. in the words of soyouwanna.com "the Velvet Underground was taking the rock rulebook, tearing out the pages, and using them to wipe their butts"
i agree that the major record label is really destroying indie rock, but it's still out there, just not on TV. but really, if it were on TV would it be indie rock to begin with?

Ode to a Grasshopper · Tue Apr 16, 2002 11:23 pm

Originally posted by Frogus.
The Doors are bollocks.

You watch your mouth! I know where you live (It's on your profile)!

Originally posted by Frogus
Pink Floyd

Oh. Okay. Guess I'll let it go, for now.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 4:48 am

Originally posted by frogus
The Doors are bollocks.

You seem to have lost the idea of opinions, i like the doors i think that they influenced music, i wasn't alive in the time of their music i can only base my assumptions on listening to how music has moved on through the years, i hear people rip off Pink Floyd and The Doors all the time so i assume they were great influences on music.

Lou Reed didn't change music. Cale was the innovator, and the scene would have been just about as great without him...ps sleep have you read the Bokris(sp?) biography? I read it a week ago or so...

No i haven't, is it good? Again, i hear his style influencing the lyrical style of many artists, plus there is the covers and the samples used in more modern music.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:05 pm

doors are huge innovators, i love the doors, i have a huge poster of jim morrison on my wall.