dedicated to true rock icons

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:19 pm

i have been thinking about the late kurt cobain recently as the anniversiary of his death was two weeks ago. i was thinking of how Nirvana changed music and i decided to make a biased and un-supported opinion. I think that Nirvana and Bruce Springsteen deserve some serious credit for what they did with music. I am picking these two out because i was looking back at the music that was popular at the times these artists emerged and it sucked. They were both around during terrible times on the music scene. I think they both broke through with real rock and roll keeping it alive for a few more years. Feel free to disagree and go ahead and crucify me.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:25 pm

Not disagreeing

Just adding Jimi Hendrix to the list. The greatest rock icon.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:30 pm

jimi hendrix is great, but i think the point i was making was that nirvana and springsteen played hard rock when nobody else did. hendrix was around with other great bands too. The closest person to nirvana was crappy grungeheads like pearl jam or greenday and other wannabe punkers. (i really like greenday though, BUT PEARL JAM SUCKS!!)

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:31 pm

I'll add Stevie Ray Vaughn. A beacon during a truly sorry era of popular music.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:41 pm

@AR, with respect to nirvana, what about sound garden. Their impact on the seattle music predates nirvana and they definitely influenced nirvana's music Cobain was probably a more charasmatic front man than Chris Cornell. Additionally, Nirvana had Dave Groel, a true gem, and Sound Garden didn't. Nirvana, cobain, nevermind, and smells like teen spirit was the moment grunge hit the mainstream so they deserve some kudos for that perhaps (the grunge scene never did much for me). What about mudhoney, another band that heavily influenced nirvana's music and cobains heroin addiction.

With respect to Springsteen, I think you'll have to clarify the years you're referring to as springsteen has had a long career. If you specify an era, I'll be happy to comment.

Not trying to take anything away from the thread or the musicians named, I just don't agree with the statement of saying 'nobody else played hard rock when they did'.

Pearl Jam's first album, ten, was magnificient. After that, take it or leave it. Incidentally, they also predate and influenced nirvana, and they used to open for pearl jam in the early 90's in seattle.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:50 pm

@ned, very true, i agree with you. soundgarden did have a huge impact on the grunge scene and did predate Nirvana. but the reason i commented on nirvana is because they are the band that actually changed the whole music scene inspiring people to play some good music again. they also were more popular and brought the music to the masses. Soundgarden did have hits and their black hole sun video is definitely one of my top ten favorite videos, but i don't think they accomplished nearly what nirvana did.

with springsteen it seemed that rock music was losing it's touch by the mid to late 70's with the loss of some great bands that really lead rock through its high point. It seemed that during the late seventies and early 80's there weren't many bands out there that really rocked. The Police were the only other really great band out there and they didn't really rock too much.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:54 pm

Ahhhhhh!! The Police. How silly of me to forget. Talk about a band that changed music. One of the originals in alternative music. Still, listen to Outlandos d'amoure, their first. It rocks fairly hard. Tunes like So Lonely, so very good.

Points taken about Nirvana. check your PM.

Rock did produce a lot of crap in the mid-late-70's and into the 80's. A time when bands like foreigner and foghat where allowed to thrive (however, foreigners first album was very good, star rider is a great tune). How could say that about springsteen though and leave out bands like sabbath, aerosmith, and dare I say it, lemmy and motorhead.

I guess if you mention the police you're not excluding the UK. That said, where does the clash fit into your scheme of things.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:25 pm

THE CLASH!! of course, how could i forget them. i dunno about those other bands though, i really don't like any of the music that aerosmith did during the late 70's, sabath was ok, lemmy's good but not the same caliber as the other bands we're talking about. I think that the clash need some serious credit though, they really got the whole punk thing going. and you don't need to tell me about all the other punk bands before the clash, i'm just saying that the clash really got it popular and i think they did it the best. I think that the Ramones get a little too much credit, people always say that they "invented" punk rock, i like them, but i'm not going to credit them as the creators of a genre.

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:27 pm

Originally posted by Aragorn Returns
jimi hendrix is great, but i think the point i was making was that nirvana and springsteen played hard rock when nobody else did. hendrix was around with other great bands too. The closest person to nirvana was crappy grungeheads like pearl jam or greenday and other wannabe punkers. (i really like greenday though, BUT PEARL JAM SUCKS!!)

Pearl Jam sucks???
Have you really listen to it? Is one of the best bands ever; take a look to the music "Black" or "Light Years".
Alice in Chains is another good band on Nirvana's wave.

Now we have some good bands too, Radiohead is nice, for example.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:40 pm

hated Nirvana, I just never got into that whole thing. I did like Alice in Chains though.

The only bands i listen to lately are Godsmack and Rob Zombie. just bitter I guess.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:40 pm

well, we seem to have different tastes in music. i have listened to pearl jam, and i don't find them all that great. i haven't heard anything of radiohead except for what is on TV and on the Radio, but i haven't heard anything that i've liked.

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 11:35 pm

What about Queen?
They have some awsome songs, with 'We will rock you/We are the champions' being one of the most famous songs ever.
They are certainly better than the police.

I wasn't that impressed with Nirvana- The only song I realy realy liked is 'Smells like teen spirit' and a couple of the more famous ones which names I can't remember.
I'm more of a Metalica/Hendrix/Queen/Pink Floyd/Steve Vai type. (I am aware that they aren't the same type of music)

Ode to a Grasshopper · Mon Apr 15, 2002 11:58 pm

Don't forget The Doors.

Beldin · Post by **Beldin** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:32 am

..or the Sex Pistols....

..not to mention John Lee Hooker - now there was a really GREAT one....

..and how about the voice of this century ? I'm talking about Janis Joplin here..

Besides that I agree with Ned on S.R.V.....

No worries,

Beldin

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:37 am

What about Lou Reed?

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:58 am

Run DMC

Hands down, Run DMC was the most influential rap act of all time. Back when all of the other black hip hop artists were in diapers, Run DMC was not only opening doors for other rap artists, they were kicking them in.

In 1986, when Raising Hell was released, there were a handful of successful black rap acts (Grandmaster Flash, The Fat Boys, etc.), but none of them had broken through to the mainstream in any significant way. When "Walk This Way" was released, it changed rap music. By enlisting Steven Tyler and Joe Perry to appear on the record and in the video, Run DMC assumed instant legitimacy with hard rock fans and people who listened to "white people's music".

This opened the door for more controversial black rap artists (Public Enemy, Ice-T, etc.) and other R&B acts to get out of the regional ruts they were stuck in and entered into the national consciousness and mainstream markets.

Whether you liked rap music or not (it's called "hip hop" now), after Run DMC, it was here to stay.

Jace · Post by **Jace** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 6:25 am

IMO Nirvana, good as they were, just typified a movement. They did not realy break any new ground by them selves, the whole grunge thing was happening and they just did it best.

I do not rate Springsteen much. I think he is too derivative. Nothing he did broke new ground. He had some good songs, but I think that music would be much the same with out him.

For me the list major influences in rock are
Beatles - I don't like them but acknowledge their influence.
Hendirix
The Doors
The Who - First band ever to use preprogrammed syths on a LP
Bowie
Presley
Malcolm Mclaren
Bob Dylan
Miles Davis
Buddy Holly

Don't know much about Hip Hop, but I will take HLD's point about Run DMC

There are more, but these are the ones that spring straight to mind (I realise that I have left out the whole Motown thing here, but I can not think of any names ecxept Diana Ross, and I think she is derivitive of earlyer people).

Ode to a Grasshopper · Tue Apr 16, 2002 6:52 am

Led Zeppelin were pretty incredible too. Jimmy Paige(sp?) and Robert Plant worked especially well together.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:18 am

Madonna

You cannot discuss influential musical acts of the modern era (ie-post 1980) without considering Madonna, love her or hate her. Two people understood the power of the music video better than anyone else: Madonna and Michael Jackson. Where Madonna steps ahead of Michael is in her staying power and the fact that she has not become some reclusive wacko and accused child molester.

What makes Madonna such a pop music wrecking ball? It's not her singing ability; there are others more gifted out there than she is (Charlotte Church, Christina Aguilera, Mariah Carey to name a few). It's not her appearance; while attractive, she's not drop-dead gorgeous, but she is sexy. It's not her music; mostly pop drivel, Madonna's body of work is largely derivative and if not for Madonna's name appearing with it, it would be largely forgotten.

Madonna's influence is in her visceral understanding of how to use music videos and the media to get her way. She came along at just the right time and was smart enough to get on the MTV bandwagon in the beginning, like an Amway or Starlite salesperson, and let the thing build around her. She constantly changes her image and appearance and manipulates the public into following her every move and wanting to imitate her every action.

She is the complete package. Not just a pretty face lip-synching to music on stage, Madonna takes an active part in her music, from writing the songs, she even plays some of her own instruments, she produces her songs and has set herself up as a music mogul; not bad for a working-class girl from the midwest.

Her longevity is part of her influence, but her greater stamp on modern music (for better or for worse) is that no act can be successful on a large scale for an extended period of time without a signature music video. Even anti-establishment acts and people who disdain everything about her and what Madonna stands for acknowledge this.

Jace · Post by **Jace** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:24 am

HLD,
Yeah, good point. I will add her to the List.