Social Perception and the Internet

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 7:45 pm

Ok, I've been reading some information about society and the internet and the effects that the internet has on people and their social behaviour.

There are a couple of key issues that I wouldn't mind discussing with you all here and the fact that we (people of SYM) are in a prime position due to our society amongst SYM.

First off is the issue of how it is dominantly believed amongst researchers, that social relationships are being affected negatively by the internet. There is a statement that compares the use of TV to the internet and that when we are participating in the use of the internet, that is time we are not actively socially engaged.

Now there are multiple threads we could look at here, including the comparison of TV to the Internet, one passive, one interactive. We could also look at what is considered socially active. Is it still possible to achieve social activity through the internet? SYM comes to mind here.

The second, and in my mind, more important issue, is the use of the internet to join groups on the basis of common interests rather than convenience. Is this online common interest going to have sufficient strength to combat against the face to face social interaction with the use of kinesics, haptics and all the other social cues that we use in face to face social interaction?

Like I said, these are just some thoughts I've been looking into, but I'd be very interested to hear everyones opinion on these issues.

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:22 pm

Anyone?

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:31 pm

IMHO social activity through the internet is perfectly possible. I think most of the regulars on SYM would agree - there has to be a reason why everyone keeps on coming back here

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:39 pm

Originally posted by Georgi:
IMHO social activity through the internet is perfectly possible. I think most of the regulars on SYM would agree - there has to be a reason why everyone keeps on coming back here

Well I know my reason...

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:43 pm

Originally posted by Vehemence:
Well I know my reason...

Really, well do enlighten us all as to why you've been here for 6 months?

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:54 pm

Originally posted by Georgi:
Really, well do enlighten us all as to why you've been here for 6 months?

Social interaction and being part of a group with similar interests.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:58 pm

Originally posted by Georgi:
IMHO social activity through the internet is perfectly possible. I think most of the regulars on SYM would agree - there has to be a reason why everyone keeps on coming back here

I must say that I agree. A year and a half ago, I joined a message board(first one I ever joined) at a Pokemon site(Yes, I was a pokemaniac then, though not near as much of one now). I made friends, enemies, and one of those enemies you refer to as "Old Friend." About a month after joining that board, some of my friends there convinced me to get AIM. I did and I've been chatting on it ever since. One of those people I met at that board and then started chatting with online is my girlfriend(and yes, I have met her in person). I have a good sized group of friends whom I've been chatting with ever since then. None of us are even very interested in Pokemon anymore, but we socialize together on AIM. I find the internet very helpful for my social life. I have made several irl friends because they're interested in the net and came to me to learn more about it. I have my online friends(and girlfriend) with whom I chat every day. I'm a lot more sociable online because I'm not as shy as I am irl.

I've been told that spending all my time online chatting is unhealthy for a teenager, that I should be "hangin' out with friends" and such. My response to that is always "What is 'hangin' out with friends'? It's spending time with your friends talking about this or that and doing this or that. What do I do online? I spend time with friends talking about this or that and doing this or that." There only difference between hangin' out with friends online and hangin' out with friends offline is that you're not speaking to them face to face. That can be a good thing, though because it provides less chance for discrimination. How often do you see someone like fable hangin' out with someone like me or Aegis; or someone like C Elegans hangin' out with someone like Veh or Georgi? Heck, I don't even remember the last time I met someone like fable or Ysh, not that I meet a lot of people irl...

Also, those of us who spend most our time online at places like SYM are more cultured than a lot of people who spend their entire life in the "real" world. Such as that discussion about gas prices in the hating America topic. I know a lady irl. I was talking to her about gas prices. I happen to mention how that the difference between our gas prices and Canada's gas prices was a lot less than usual and she said, "What does it matter to me what the gas prices are in Canada?" Now, that is a valid question in that since she is not going to Canada(lucky them) it is not important for her to know what the gas prices are. However, I have no need to know such as that either, but I find it interesting to know what things like that are in other countries compared to here. Gas prices may not be the best example, but the point is that, though she "tries" to act "cultured," she is very uncultured and doesn't really care to become cultured. We, on the other hand, are constantly learning things about other cultures, whether we be spammers or lurkers.

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:07 pm

Some excellent points SS. That was one of my main interests, finding out exactly how to define social interaction whether face to face or though a computer mediated communication (CMC) channel like SYM.

I think also that your point regarding the less discrimination to be also very interesting. I agree in the sense that it eliminates the normal discriminatory things such as race, colour of skin, gender, etc and forces people to look at what your saying. However, that being said, I believe that CMC is actually creating some discriminations of its own. It discriminates against the technology poor by not allowing them accces. It also discriminates against the technology illiterate. That is, the people that don't find it easy to communicate online through the net.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:22 pm

Originally posted by Vehemence:
I think also that your point regarding the less discrimination to be also very interesting. I agree in the sense that it eliminates the normal discriminatory things such as race, colour of skin, gender, etc and forces people to look at what your saying. However, that being said, I believe that CMC is actually creating some discriminations of its own. It discriminates against the technology poor by not allowing them accces. It also discriminates against the technology illiterate. That is, the people that don't find it easy to communicate online through the net.

True, but that seems to be the way of human existence. While solving one problem, create a new problem. It also seems to be the way of computer existence to... *kicks her computer*

I don't quite agree with the technology poor thing, though. If someone really wanted a computer and internet access, it's possible to get. My family is almost poor, though not quite. Yet, we have 3 computers, 4 counting my laptop. All of which are good computers that we managed to get great deals on. The technologically illiterate thing is a problem, though society is beginning to make it less of a problem. My English Composition class is done on computer, thus "basic typing skills" are necessary. The professor mentioned this at the beginning of the first class and said that if any of us didn't have that, it would be best to drop the class and sign up for one of the Eng Comp classes that isn't done on computer. Only one student got up and left the class. Though I don't know how old this guy was, I would estimate him at somewhere between 18 and 25 and certainly not the oldest student in that class. I on the other hand am, not to brag, the fastest typist in that class and it is because I practice for 10-12 hours a day every day.

Six years ago, my parents were technologically illiterate. Now they both have their own computers and spend a few hours a day on them. They even correspond with classmates from their high schools, whom they found by searching [url="http://www.classmates.com"]ClassMates.com[/url], via email.

Personally, I think "techonological illiteracy," like "technological poor" can be rectified by the individual if that individual wishes to do so.

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:25 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
I don't quite agree with the technology poor thing, though. If someone really wanted a computer and internet access, it's possible to get. My family is almost poor, though not quite. Yet, we have 3 computers, 4 counting my laptop. All of which are good computers that we managed to get great deals on. The technologically illiterate thing is a problem, though society is beginning to make it less of a problem. My English Composition class is done on computer, thus "basic typing skills" are necessary. The professor mentioned this at the beginning of the first class and said that if any of us didn't have that, it would be best to drop the class and sign up for one of the Eng Comp classes that isn't done on computer. Only one student got up and left the class. Though I don't know how old this guy was, I would estimate him at somewhere between 18 and 25 and certainly not the oldest student in that class. I on the other hand am, not to brag, the fastest typist in that class and it is because I practice for 10-12 hours a day every day. Six years ago, my parents were technologically illiterate. Now they both have their own computers and spend a few hours a day on them. They even correspond with classmates from their high schools, whom they found by searching [url="http://www.classmates.com"]ClassMates.com[/url], via email.

Personally, I think "techonological illiteracy," like "technological poor" can be rectified by the individual if that individual wishes to do so.

Sometimes it's not that easy. What happens to the people of developing countries without any internet access what so ever? Is it possible for them to go and get a computer when they have to quit school and work just to support their families?

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:29 pm

@Veh but how relevant is common interest? It's what brought everyone to GB, but chat in SYM doesn't revolve around CRPGs...

@SS I agree completely, I've been using ICQ for a couple of years now to chat to friends - both ones I have met IRL and ones I have met online. I've never met an online friend IRL yet, but I know people who have.

I'm a lot more sociable online because I'm not as shy as I am irl.

I think this is probably fairly common, and I also think that rather than making people more shy and introverted, as some people might think, chatting online helps you grow in self-confidence and therefore helps your social development IRL as well.

Admittedly, not all chatrooms are like SYM (ie. not full of 13 year old boys wanting to cyber

) but the variety of SYM - the different people who come here, and the breadth of topics discussed - is excellent. I certainly learn a lot here

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:44 pm

Originally posted by Georgi:
@Veh but how relevant is common interest? It's what brought everyone to GB, but chat in SYM doesn't revolve around CRPGs...

Very important IMO. CRPG's may not be the common interest in SYM but there still exists other common interests. We all have an interest in voicing our opinions and seeing how other people react to them. It's important for people to feel accepted and belong to a group.

Being a place to hang out and socialise is indeed another common interest we have. We enjoy the conversation otherwise we wouldn't be here

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 1:36 am

Originally posted by Georgi:
Admittedly, not all chatrooms are like SYM (ie. not full of 13 year old boys wanting to cyber ) but the variety of SYM - the different people who come here, and the breadth of topics discussed - is excellent. I certainly learn a lot here

In my Public Speaking class, we were divided up into 3 groups and each group had to make a "group speech" explaining "why our group deserves an A in the class." Thus, we needed to figure out what we had in common that was the reason we deserved an A. After a bit of discussion, we came to the conclusion that what we had in common was that we had nothing in common, that we were each different than everyone else in the group. Diversity is what adds spice to life. Where is the most accessible diversity? Online at places like SYM and other such online communities.

I must also say that I have learned a lot in the short tie I've been here. Example: Though I had heard of it, I didn't know what Guinness is until I came here.

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 1:49 am

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
I must also say that I have learned a lot in the short tie I've been here. Example: Though I had heard of it, I didn't know what Guinness is until I came here.

*GASP*! What rock were you living under!

Don't worry, I never heard of Sex on the Beach until Georgi came along

Er, I meant the c*cktail called 'Sex on the Beach.'

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 1:54 am

Originally posted by Vehemence:
Don't worry, I never heard of Sex on the Beach until Georgi came along Er, I meant the c*cktail called 'Sex on the Beach.'

I learned about that one by reading this little guide for bartenders thing they had at Hastings. Saw "Orgasm" listed there, too; though, I learned about that one by watching a show on E! about Hong Kong. I got to watch a lady have an Orgasm.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:35 am

My feeling towards this is that SYM is a refuge for people who possible don't have a lot of friends in real life, or maybe just wanna kick back. IT allows a group of people who were drawn together by one common interest (Computer Gaming) and expanded on that. Originally, and this is for most of the older members, we spent our time discussing BG2, int he BG2 forum, but as we grew closer as friends, and found out we had exhausted our topics, we were given more of a "lounge". Now, if you notice, for the most part it's only really people who have been around for awhile that post in SYM, it's almost like we're a small clique. It's not like I'm saying we're an exclusive group of people, it's just that we are a group of people who met online, formed friendships and bonded enough that we spend many waking hours talking with people here, having discussions, and a general all round good time!

I personally don't have a lot of irl friends (Mostly cause I just moved) and found that this was a great place to go when I was lonely or bored. It offered solace, and a person to talk too. Not, if that is damaging to those of us who use the internet for the same reason, then I ask this, what is good for us? To sit around without the friends, or interaction? We may be sitting in front of a screen while we do it, but at least we're not doing drugs, or getting into ****. In addition, SYM is not like regular forums. Since it's forming, I have learned so many things, but have also taught people things, about Canada and other things. During this time, I have forged friendships with people like Fable, Vehemence, Sleep, and even good ole' Grunty! As SS had said, I probably wouldn't hang out with these people irl. Why? Because they all got me by about 10 or so years. But, by being online, I got a chance to meet them, and learn from them, and if thats a bad thing, well, that just shows how intelligent people are these days...

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:24 am

That's actually a really good point about the age difference, Aegis. One of the benefits of CMC is that it is essentially eliminating age differences, gender differences and cultural differences... to a certain degree.

These factors are still going to permeate through our written communication styles and still be limiting to us in certain instances, but on the whole, it has allowed a varied bunch of people to come together and form our own virtual community. But the underlying principle with the CMC over FtF communication is that we are here from a common desire, rather than convenience.

Branching back to the first issue, how does everyone feel with the comparison made between the internet and Television. Would it be more fair to perhaps compare it to the telephone in it's use, since it is not only a passive media, but an interactive social medium?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:33 am

My internet socialisation (sp?? - can't spell, am drunk

) has absolutly not influenced my IRL socialisation (sp? again

)

I've just gotten home from a 2 days external course for freshmen at the college education I started monday, and I still rule everything to do with "bribing to win contest", socialising(partying) with "humans" and all the other stuff that happens when people meet

I think that it is quite possible to have social relations over the net, we are communicating with each other.
If some people then fail at socialsing IRL because they've done it online, then I really think they would have failed at it anyway.

It is always easy to blame something else (people, things, internet, gaming) for problems some people have - IMO they should just get a hold of them self

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:41 am

I agree, Xandax. (incidentally, welcome back you drunkard

)

My social life online vs my social life offline is very similar... except for the demographics of the people I associate with here are different from my face to face social group.

Generally though, my behaviour remains consistent and I largely agree that if they fail in face to face social interaction, it's not going to be due to their CMC social interaction.

While I'm at it, why is there a need for people to feel that something is always to blame? I myself am guilty of this on occasion. I'll want to know who spiked my drink, or who stole my beer while I wasn't looking

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:49 am

Originally posted by Vehemence:
<snip>who stole my beer while I wasn't looking

- I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it