Black Metal

Warggoath · Post by **Warggoath** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:24 pm

Well, I think that most of this forums users hate black metal...

What do you think about Black Metal? What do you like in it and what do you hate in it?

For me personally, as I first discovered this music few years back through a friend via msn, this music has meant a lot to me. First band I listened to was Barathrum and damn I was blown away. The album, Legions Of Perkele, it felt like manifestation of all evil in music. It felt like the emotional hell would be brought through speakers. It felt that the music could spawn demons from depths of hell. From that 40mins I knew that this music was mine. But when I first heard Burzum I was also blown away. But not in good mind this time. The recording quality was most crappiest I had ever heard. Soon I grew into the music and got rooted so that it could not taken away. Now I cannot start morning without good black metal cd....

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:49 pm

Black metal, eh?

I get to hear it every day, either from my sister, playing and singing it, or from her Stereo.

I prefer Immortal's music, since at least I can hear what they're singing/playing. I can't stand the vocals of Burzum though

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:34 pm

Not a big fan personally. I have heard at least 20 different bands and the only one I actually found interesting was Cradle of Filth (the Dusk and her Embrace and Cruelty and the Beast albums). All the rest that I heard was crap made by far less then average musicians. And one thing I don't respect are so-called musician who do not know how to play their instruments.

To me, music is about... music actually. Not about attitude. I listen to people who do music because they love it (and these people know how to play), not to those who do it because they think it makes them cool.

Maybe I was just introduced to the wrong bands, but those that I heard were only some bunch of unskillful musicians trying to look scary, when in fact, the only persons they do scare are the very yong children and the old grandmas. And I don't see nothing cool or to be proud of in that.

As I said, maybe I did not heard the right bands, but after hearing so much crap I just decided to give up on it.

Warggoath · Post by **Warggoath** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:02 am

Gilliat, Cradle Of Filth ain't black metal. And in black metal usually the bands are as skillfull as any band but the music must be overcome due the low production. As for one of best bm albums, Darkthrone's Transilvanian Hunger, which is produced at Necrohell 2, the production is so muffled that it makes all the disortion from the guita disappear and te same drum comp drives all expect one track on the album. If you dont listen closely to the music it sounds all the same. It seems that not even one of the tracks are different from eachother while closely listening you will see that the guitar riffs are amazing and change every 1-4 minutes or so. And it needs skill to play same riff for minutes and play same comp for 6 minutes whitout even missing one hit.

Yes, it is true that you do not need to be very skilled with your instruments. Yes, you can make it big in bm with underproduced 4 tracker music. One thing where bm stands out of pop, rap and others is the fact that usually this music is much more deeper than those. For me great bm can be very underproduced and unskillful as long as the music comes from your heart. You can sense from music when they truly mean what they say. If the music is greatly and skillfully played but it is shallow then I wont listen to it.

And with this I do not try to convert you to listen bm like me 24/7 but pick even one album, Transilvanian Hunger for a example, and listen it closely from first track to the last. And at last, if you just discovered bm, try these bands: Grand Belial's Key, Barathrum(from Hailstorm to Legions Of Perkele) Darkthrone, Burzum, Lord Belial, VON, Havohej, Mayhem, Black Funeral...

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:41 am

Sure, I will try it. Thanks for the tip.

I always heard that Cradle of Filth was black metal, but I'm no expert here. How do you classify them (or Dimmu Borgir and Emperor) if it is not?

To clarify what I wrote earlier: I do not care only about virtuosos, it is just that I want a minimum of talent. I consider so-called musician who don't know how to play as impostors, just like you would consider someone who calls himself a doctor but does not know if you heart is on the left or the right side of your torso as an impostor. To give you an exemple, I have more respect for AC/DC's drummer than for a metal drummer who can do double bass drum at lightning speed but cannot do it on the tempo. The foundation of drumming is giving and keeping the tempo, if a drummer can't do that, I don't care how fast he can go, to me he is pure crap. But show me a drummer who goes at lightning speed and can keep the tempo (like Pete Sandoval and Gene Hoglan) and then I am very impressed! (Of course this comment is about every kind of music, I am not talking exclusively about BM.)

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:17 pm

Gilliatt wrote:Sure, I will try it. Thanks for the tip.

I always heard that Cradle of Filth was black metal, but I'm no expert here. How do you classify them (or Dimmu Borgir and Emperor) if it is not?

Well, it's actually quite hard to definate which bands belong under which categories, as they tend to mix up more than one to their music.

Senteced's early product is rather good. Yes, there is different opinions whether they were playing black metal. Especially albums labeled as "Amok" and "Shadows of the Past" are very good ones.

It's hard for me to name more black metal bands which I listen for the reasons stated above...

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:06 pm

Warggoath wrote:Gilliat, Cradle Of Filth ain't black metal.

I have a friend who's been doing albums reviews for magazines since the middle of the 90's. He laughed at me when I told him about this thread. He said: "You must have insulted him big time! Just like you are insulted when people tell you they are heavy metal fans because they love Korn and Blink 182!"

So sorry for the offense.

At least Cradle of Filth is not too bad.

And at least, it made me learn something.

Warggoath · Post by **Warggoath** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:57 pm

Well, I wasn't that insulted. But here comes one reason of many why CoF aint black metal:

Cradle Of Filth - Lovesick For Mina:

One might see in Mina
My disease
But it is She who has infected me
For all eternity...

As the sun slips the tearaway stars
Into the scented scheme of night
I kissed her mouth like a dark red rose
Set upon a marbled dream of white
So pure of thought like a Vestal statue
Jewelled with a God-lent grace
I was close to coming when She bid adieu
Fuelled by the heartache rent upon her face there

Oh Mina, obscener
Thoughts obsess my days
Oh Mina, obscener
Thoughts possess me
That I must now obey

They say the darkest hour
Is that before the dawn
When nothing in one's power
Can dissipate the great forlorn
Shadows of fire that haunt me
Like risen whispers of her name
For dawn is a dusk
Wherein needs must
Erupt from the grave, aflame

Written in the dead of night
And riding on the burning wind
Smitten by her read delight
My words alight like leaves of sin

Stepping through a mirror
The princess of the emerald glass
Brought me one step nearer
Love's infernal past...

They say Hell hath no furies
Like a woman scorned by life
When the Heavenly Judge and juries
Participate to chain this wife
With forced virtues, Her secret needs
Drew on my foreign blood
On warm wet nights, with storm-wracked bites
I gave her Eden after the flood

Written in the dead of night
And riding on the burning wind
Smitten by her read delight
My words alight like leaves of sin

Verona, Marishka, Aleera
Brides of old and goddesses all
Forgive my wishes to be always near her
Forever or whenever seas recall

This Aphrodite from my embrace
For as Mars (whom her lips placate)
I tore these shores with wars of hatred
Before our Paris set his fate
In Helen, one might find mistake
In winning tragedy
For all eternity...

I am still lovesick for Mina
I am still so lovesick for her

This is black metal:

Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger:

Transilvanian hunger the mountain so cold
Cold cold soul cold

Your hands are cruel careful ... pale ...
To haunt, to haunt forever at night

Take me can't you feel the call
Embrace me eternally in your daylight slumber

To be draped by the shadow of your morbid palace
Ohh, hate living... The only heat is warm blood

So pure... So cold
Transilvanian hunger

Hail to the true, intense vampires
A story made for divine fulfillment

To be the one's breathing a wind of sorrow
Sorrow and fright the dearest katharsis

Beautiful evil self to be the morbid count
A part of a pact that is delightfully immortal

Feel the call freeze you with the uppermost desire
Transilvanian hunger, my mountain is cold

So pure... Evil, cold
Transilvanian hunger

But you can make a love song in black metal:

Darkthrone - Natassja in Eternal Sleep:

Alcohol is in my veins...
Tears fall as I think of you
The true memory you left me with
is a key to the wine of melancholy

I drown myself in the deepest of sorrows
As you Burned on that stake they burnt
my soul as well
Your pure feelings, your flaming hate
it was not enough

Natassja, my beloved satanic witch
The power in your eyes and yourself
Worked for the noble in man
Pass the bottle, pass the knife
Pass me your unholy crafts

I shall never forget you, the best
of all there is, I lick your cold lips
I embrace your coffin as I sigh in woe
You never kissed the priest, you never
Drank the blood of jesus. Weird, they say
well, turn it upside down like you did
and they Kill, KILL, and they take you away...

Now, centuries later, I do yours and my sign
You live in me, like you moved in with my soul
Your resurrection is the spirit of you
Installed in me. So now, your thougths
and your pains are my wine; and Natassja
I'll get these goddam angels drunk...

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:09 am

Actually, you both are kinda right.

Cradle of Filth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As stated on wikipedia, CoF has been black metal band, but evolved during the time towards other metal styles.

So, basically they are today more mix-up of different styles... which is very common in todays metal bands...

Warggoath · Post by **Warggoath** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:41 am

Their guitarist Paul Allender said "The way that I see it is that we were, and still are now, an extreme metal band."

Sator · Post by **Sator** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:22 pm

No offense to anyone, I'm merely expressing my personal tastes and opinion.

I hate all forms of metal, and the harder (as in the more the main singer screams/grunts in the mike and the louder the scratching on the guitars) the worse it is for me. I think this music inspires aggression and hate and i especially dislike fans that go a bit too deep in their obsession and thus join satanist cults.. I agree that everyone has a right to like/dislike whatever he/she wants, but if i ever catch a bunch of people desecrating a graveyard, i would go berserk.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:20 pm

Sator wrote:No offense to anyone, I'm merely expressing my personal tastes and opinion.

I hate all forms of metal, and the harder (as in the more the main singer screams/grunts in the mike and the louder the scratching on the guitars) the worse it is for me. I think this music inspires aggression and hate and i especially dislike fans that go a bit too deep in their obsession and thus join satanist cults.. I agree that everyone has a right to like/dislike whatever he/she wants, but if i ever catch a bunch of people desecrating a graveyard, i would go berserk.

I'll start with the same warning Sator: don't get offended, but your comment just sounds like those made by the grandmas who say metal is the music of the devil. Have you ever took the time to listen to an Iron Maiden cd? Some high school kids once said that they learned more about history from Iron Maiden than from their school teachers. Have you ever listen to a Metal Church album, where they tell parents that kids don't commit suicide because they listen to heavy metal, but because they feel nobody loves them, that a sticker on a record saying "explicit language" won't help a neglected and beaten child?

Yes, lots of metal bands and lots of metal fans are just posers (and everyone who tries to tell me the contrary has not been a heavy metal fan for more than 25 years like me), but it is not different in pop our country music, and this is not the case of all metal bands, just like not all American movies are patriotic movies adressed to an andience with the brains of a 4 years old.

I am not offended by your comment, but I truly feel that you don't have enough information to make a sound opinion. That does not mean you HAVE to start listening to metal, you still have the right not to love it.

As I said, no offense taken, so please don't take offense either.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:22 pm

Gilliatt wrote: Yes, lots of metal bands and lots of metal fans are just posers (and everyone who tries to tell me the contrary has not been a heavy metal fan for more than 25 years like me)

Whimps and Posers
Leave the Hall!

I do love some of the metal slogans around.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:24 pm

Fiberfar wrote:Whimps and Posers
Leave the Hall!

I do love some of the metal slogans around.

Yes, but everytime I hear Manowar sing this, I wonder why they don't leave: they may not be whimps, but they sure are posers!

I bought their last DVD, and just could not believe my ears on the part about Wagner's decendant. I have rarely seen so much idiocy in such a few time. Of course, Wagner did not do classical music but heavy metal

, and Wagner should be very honored to have such skillful musicians and composers honor him.

How come Wagner's decendant cannot realize that Manowar's music is as deep and as complex as Wagner's own music?

If Wagner's music had not existed, Manowar would have probably invented it.

We all know this of course. :speech:

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:18 am

Gilliatt wrote:Yes, but everytime I hear Manowar sing this, I wonder why they don't leave: they may not be whimps, but they sure are posers!

I bought their last DVD, and just could not believe my ears on the part about Wagner's decendant. I have rarely seen so much idiocy in such a few time. Of course, Wagner did not do classical music but heavy metal , and Wagner should be very honored to have such skillful musicians and composers honor him. How come Wagner's decendant cannot realize that Manowar's music is as deep and as complex as Wagner's own music? If Wagner's music had not existed, Manowar would have probably invented it. We all know this of course. :speech:

I was laughing my ass of when I saw that

Speaking of skillfull... I can't think of many vocalists and bassists that can sing like Eric Adams and play like Joey DeMaio though.

Anyways. Back to black metal.
I don't see why every black metal band around have to be "satanists". Dressing up in black and white paint and screaming their balls of about how much God and christianity sucks, does not make you a satanists.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:25 am

Sator wrote:No offense to anyone, I'm merely expressing my personal tastes and opinion.

I hate all forms of metal, and the harder (as in the more the main singer screams/grunts in the mike and the louder the scratching on the guitars) the worse it is for me. I think this music inspires aggression and hate and i especially dislike fans that go a bit too deep in their obsession and thus join satanist cults.. I agree that everyone has a right to like/dislike whatever he/she wants, but if i ever catch a bunch of people desecrating a graveyard, i would go berserk.

Sorry, but I agree with Gilliatt in this. And no offense meant...

Let's a think about the other music styles for a moment, like rap. Most of the songs I have heard (at times I'm forced to listen it from radio...) contains mostly lyrics about how good the singer is, how he/she beats everybody down with guns, how rappers are the only ones who get beutiful women and so on... with curses, of course. Also, the music videos are mostly about half-naked women, rappers who try to look though and so on...

Of course, that is only my opinion about that music genre...

First of all, do you really think that metal is born from hate and anger?
Then you definately haven't listened any other metal than few hardcore bands, if any at all, as I could name dozens of metal bands whose music simply doesn't fill that statement. Nightwish, Sonata Arctica, Apocalyptica, Tarot, Rammstein (most of their tracks), Stratovarius and Twilight Guardians are good example of it.

And metal = music of satan, as I was able to read from your post?
If you read even some of the lyrics of most metal bands (yes, black metal bands as well), you would notice that only minor of those even talk about satan or religion at all...

And metal fan = satan worshipper? Get outta here!

I've been fan of metal music (basically, the heavier the better) for years (sixt year this summer, actually), and I'm definately NOT satan worshipper or any kind of cultist. And I have dozens of friends, all of them are metal fans like me, and neither is none of them any kind of cultist or such...

Of course, no one tells you to like metal. It's your opinion as is my opinion about rap, and I respect that. But please, as long as you simply do not posses enough information, don't come to claim something to be fact just becuase you believe so.
(I'm referring to the anger & hate statement as well as the satanistic music -statement here...)

Again no offense meant, so I hope you don't take it as such.

Fibey wrote: I don't see why every black metal band around have to be "satanists". Dressing up in black and white paint and screaming their balls of about how much God and christianity sucks, does not make you a satanists.

Agreed

And actually, it's very rare that members of metal bands are satanists.
Also, not every black metal bands' lyrics cover such topics.
Let's take an example from Sentenced:

NORTHERN LIGHTS
"(music: Tenkula & SENTENCED lyrics: Lopakka)

At the dawn...
The golden moon was shining bright
With the silvery eyes of death
They had seen me salute the flames in the sky

...Northern Lights...
...Northern Lights...
While you were asleep I was awake to be part of the dark
While you were asleep I was awake to find the truth I had sought for
...through all my life...

Taken by the North wind blow
Into the icy abyss of colours
As I fulfilled my true self
I knew your world is not for me

"...I am not one of them..."

Aurora Borealis -
A part of me still in the sky

In the light of the golden moon
In the light of the silvery eyes of the night
I wandered through fire through ice...
To the valley of the shadow of death

Chorus

Aurora Borealis -
A part of me still in the sky"

Not so satanistic nor even anti-christian lyrics...
Yes, those lyrics are dark, very dark, but they more talk about death and suffering, not religion in hardly any ways... at least definately not satan.

Oh, and that song is from Sentenced's album "North from here", which was published during their "Black Metal" time, when their singer still was Taneli Jarva.
Of course, it's totally different debate wether their music was actually balck metal, but at least many finnish and foreigner music magazines labeled it as such.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:51 am

Fiberfar wrote:I was laughing my ass of when I saw that
Speaking of skillfull... I can't think of many vocalists and bassists that can sing like Eric Adams and play like Joey DeMaio though.

Anyways. Back to black metal.
I don't see why every black metal band around have to be "satanists". Dressing up in black and white paint and screaming their balls of about how much God and christianity sucks, does not make you a satanists.

Although I am impressed by Adams' voice, I find DeMaio skills pretty average and was never really impressed by any of his bass solos. And no matter how you love DeMaio, there is no way you can compare him to Yo-Yo Ma, to give an exemple.

About satanists, the ones that make me really laugh are those who say God don't exist but Satan does. (I know this is not the case of every satanist.)How can you believe God's opponent exists but God don't? Sounds like a Christian who would say he believes in Adam but not in Eve.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:24 am

Gilliatt wrote:Although I am impressed by Adams' voice, I find DeMaio skills pretty average and was never really impressed by any of his bass solos. And no matter how you love DeMaio, there is no way you can compare him to Yo-Yo Ma, to give an exemple.

Thar be an differance between a cellist and a bass player like that, think ye not?

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:37 am

Fiberfar wrote:Thar be an differance between a cellist and a bass player like that, think ye not?

Of course, but I mentioned a classical musician on purpose, because I still had the Wagner "incident" in mind.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:46 am

Gilliatt wrote:Of course, but I mentioned a classical musician on purpose, because I still had the Wagner "incident" in mind.

Ah I see. If I can convince you, listen to Mountains, Bridge of Death and Guyana (Cult of the damned). That is some very fine bass play IMO. The last two live if possible.

I'm not really a black metal person, but I do see why people like it. There's a lot of energy in that music.