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a few build questions~

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simmy
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a few build questions~

Post by simmy »

Hey guys, im new to d&d and have almost no idea whats going on :laugh:
after spending several days on this forum reading up on other peoples character builds, ive come up with a few ideas and would love to get some input :)

a) i was thinking along the lines of rogue until i have prerequisites of an assassin. take 2 levels of fighter and then the rest assassin.
rogue(x)/fighter(2)/assassin(x), perhaps change the fighter for barbarian or ranger?

b) a pure monk

c) some sort of paladin mix, maybe paladin(x)/fighter(2)/champion(x)?

any suggestions most appreciated! ty~ :)

edit: and how would i go about with the starting stats? and the advancement of it?
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Magrus
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Post by Magrus »

Hey, welcome. :D I can give you tips on the core DnD mechanics. I haven't progessed further than Act 1 in the game though, so plotting out details dealing with the game will be beyond me.

A) There are a few things I will point out with this one for you, and I will stick to the choices you mentioned of 2 Fighter levels, or Barbarian or Ranger as it applies to what I saw in the game:

1. 2 Fighter levels gives you: 2 bonus feats, all armor and shield proficiency, proficiency with martial weapons, +2 BAB (makes it easier to hit), +3 Fort saves and negligable skill points (2 + Intelligence Mod./level). All of this is useful to a rogue/assassin, except for the armor and shield proficiencies. Unless you are going for a brute that doesn't sneak around, and just runs behind enemies in the middle of combat to stab them in the back. Which, if that is the case, Assassin isn't the class for you at all.

2. 2 Barbarian levels will give you: +2d12 HP, +2 BAB, +3 Fort saves, Martial weapon and medium armor proficiency, Rage 1/day, Fast movement, decent skills (4+ Int Mod/level). The rest isn't useful, and the Uncanny dodge is a feature that you get both as a rogue and Assassin. To be honest, this may be your best bet. The higher speed, HP, BAB and decent skills are all useful. The Rage function will add damage and the ability to hit, which could make a difference if a fight turns ugly for you after sneaking into one.

3. 2 Ranger levels give you: +2d8 HP, +2 BAB, +3 Fort and Ref saves, Martial Weapon Proficiency, as well as a +2 bonus to many sense related skills and weapon damage against a specifically chosen Favored Enemy, the Track feat, and Either Two-weapon fighting or Rapid Shot, as well as good skills (6 + Int/level). This would be good if you were going for a stealthy character who used two weapons and didn't want your Hide and Move Silently skills to lag behind when you divert from rogue and Assassin.


To be honest, I wouldn't suggest playing a rogue build the first time around however. It takes patience, and is slow going as you sneak around. You would probaly enjoy doing so on a later run through more than the first time. Or at least I know I would.

Monk: It's a hard class to get right, same as a paladin. I wouldnt' suggest it for a first run through when you don't know the rules of DnD to be honest. However, some people like challenges. If you do, well then the above classes you picked would be good for you. :p

To be honest, if you want a decent build that should see you through just about anything, I have a suggestion. It is durable, can heal, buff and at later levels, dish out and take punishment like any fighter. A dwarven cleric with the Sun and Healing domains that goes into the Dwarven Defender class will give you a blend of the two most durable and battle ready classes there are in the game. You won't have as many feats to play with as a fighter, or as many spells as a cleric. However, you will be a self-sufficient wall with a weapon at later levels. It will free your party up to be able to snag another warrior, a rogue, and an arcane spellcaster for the party as well.

Yet, as I said, it seems as though you want to try something complicated from your choices up above. If so, I might be able to help you pinpoint what you think would be best for you if you went into more detail in what you wanted to do most with your character. The three builds you outlined are quite different from each other.
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Post by simmy »

Magrus wrote:Unless you are going for a brute that doesn't sneak around, and just runs behind enemies in the middle of combat to stab them in the back. Which, if that is the case, Assassin isn't the class for you at all.
Thanks for the speedy reply! ~ If thats what i wanted to do, what would be the best way to build up the character?
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Post by Acleacius »

Welcome to the board. :)

Make sure you update your game with the lastest patches, as the game had lots of bugs and broken quest out of the box.

I would say stay away from trying to multiclass or a Monk your first time in D&D, If this includes RPGs then (I am not saying you won't be able to accomplish it) it will could be frustrating, so it's better to have a balance, much easier to enjoy.

I would think the best class to play would be Cleric as Magrus mentions, though I would maybe go with a Neutral Good human Cleric of Tyr, due to the increased Feats and making a more balanced character with maybe a 14 in all but 12 Int and 12 Dex, if your new to RPGs it's certinaly not a hardcore build.

I think picking up, Wisdom bonus items will increase the number of spells you get so you will not need to try to max your Wis, though I am not sure but someone will know.
This way you can have some good bonuses in for saving throws, leadership and conversatation dialogue choices.

Trying to build up your Diplomacy skills in you main character, mostly try to stay in your class skills, i.e. they ones that only cost 1 skill point to raise, to maximise.
There are some good magic weapons for Clerics at the start of the game, once you get out of the beginning area.
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Post by Magrus »

The best way? I don't know, there are a number of ways. The way I would go about for someone new to the game like you...

I would suggest one of the following races:

Human, Dwarf, Tiefling

Adjust your stats something like this: (Racial modifiers will adjust this)

Str: High (14-18)
Dex: Good (12-16)
Con: High (14-18
Int: Good (12-16)
Wis: Average (8-12)
Cha: Average (8-12)

Then, take your first level as a Rogue. With an Int of at least 12, you should end up with at least 36 skill points. Focus on the following skills:

Disable Device
Hide
Move Silently
Open Lock
Search
Tumble (To 10 only for +1 to AC. Heavy armor negates Tumble skill)
Use Magic Device

Some others to think of putting extra points into:

Appraise
Diplomacy (5 or so)
Intimidation
Listen (5 or so)
Parry
Spot (5 or so)

Some feats to focus on: Underlined are key feats.
*1st level: Luck of Heroes (Optional, good use for Human Bonus feat)
**Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack (these three will allow you run around in combat without fear of being pummeled with attacks of opportunity, most important feats with build.)
*Power Attack, Cleave: These will let you cut down an enemy and then attempt to hit the one next to the target. Useful when being swarmed.
*Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, and Power Critical in one weapon of choice. (This will let you hit better and harder, all around.)
*Iron Will (Important later on, don't forget this one)
*Improved Initiative and Toughness (If you are in doubt of what to pick ever, these two are a good choice for you.)

A good weapon for you might be the traditional Longsword to be able to use a shield, or maybe a Greatsword or Greataxe if you get a really high strength. More damage, lower AC that way.

Level Progression: I would suggest taking 2 levels of Rogue, then 2 Fighter, then 2 more Rogue, then 2 fighter. Then, after that, whatever you feel would be easiest on you. I would suggest not bothering with more than 8 Fighter levels. If you have 14 Rogue levels and 6 Fighter levels you can get 4 bonus feats, 2 special Rogue abilites, 4 attacks per round at 20th level, and +7d6 Sneak Attack.

Special Rogue Abilities: Good choices-Depends on your goals with character
Defensive Abilities:
Defensive Roll
Improved Evasion

Offensive:
Crippling Strike

Skills:
Skill Mastery

Equipment:

Get a suit of mithril full plate as early as you can if you have a Dex of 16. It is the best armor you can find with a Dex of 16. Short of that, stick with a mix of armor that allows you to use your Dex bonus and with a high armor bonus. For example, if you have a 14 Dex, Chainmail is the best choice for you until you find some good Full Plate armor. Make use of that Dex bonus in the lower levels of the game. With this build you CAN ditch Dex however. If you do, I would suggest grabbing a suit of Adamantine Full Plate when you get the chance. DR will be helpful to you, as you will have less HP than a straight fighter (average of 30 HP less or so at least).

If you are going for a lower strength character, make use of a 1 handed weapon and a shield. If you go with a strength of 16 or higher, ditch the shield and grab a two-handed weapon. Using 2 hands on a weapon adds 1.5x your Strength bonus rather than just adding your Str bonus. If you have an 18 Str then, you get +6 to damage with a Greatsword rather than +4 with a Longsword and a shield.

Focus on other items that will help you with resists, improving your Con, Str, or saves. Rings of Protection, Elemental Resist, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, Amulets of Health, etc are all good choices.
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Post by simmy »

does sneak attack work when using a big 2h weapon?

and clerics can heal right? x) hehe

p.s. this game is slightly overwhelming lol, considering in used to japanese style rpg's and WoW :angel: but im eager to learn!
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Post by Magrus »

simmy wrote:does sneak attack work when using a big 2h weapon?

and clerics can heal right? x) hehe

p.s. this game is slightly overwhelming lol, considering in used to japanese style rpg's and WoW :angel: but im eager to learn!
There's nothing against the rules that says sneak doesn't work with 2h weapons, so it should. ;)

Clerics can heal yes. If done right, clerics actually tend to make the best tanks in the game after level 10 comes around for them. The 10th level Cleric/ 10th level Dwarven Defender would make that an incredible one.

DnD is complicated. The developers attempted to make NWN 2 slightly closer to the game system than NWN was. It's still a slightly dumbed down version, but it is complex to do a good character. Still, you could just grab a straight Fighter or Cleric and do well I think. From what I've heard the game isn't too hard or thought provoking. The biggest challenges being suffering through the idiocy of the AI your companions use.
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Post by Acleacius »

Yes, it's not hard to get the hang of, you will do fine. :)
Magrus idea of a Rouge Cleric is very good, as long as it doens't seem too cofusing for you, otherwise just make a Human Cleric.
This can be a fun game so you will proabably try it again, just try to keep it simple at first to make it more enjoyable.

Also as pointed out getting the Luck of Heros at start, plus Dodge would be great choices, followed by Mobility and Spring Attack.
If you think you would like a special attack (i.e. right click on target slecting a special attack, Cleave might be a good choice before Spring Attack.

You will play around in the first town for a couple of hours your first time, remember to do an Manual save at least every 30 minutes to an hour with quicksaves 5 to 10 minutes (default F12).

They have a very good walkthru here and sections on Feats, if you get confused, most importantly as a Cleric you automaticly get your spells, so you just have to decide which spells you want to use each time you rest.

Resting is very easy and restores Health and Spells, including removing negitive effects like loss of Strength.
Just move back out of range of any monsters, near and exit or such and hit the (R key Default) all your party rest, if your too clise to monsters you won't be able to rest.
The Text Window on the bottem left tells you most everything that happens, you can scroll back if you missed something.

Edit
Yes a Cleric is the Best Healer and a Good Fighter. :)
Cleric won't use swords (no edged weapons) but mostly staves, maces and moringstars (very good one on the third map).
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Post by Magrus »

Ah, but the Dwarven Defender class when mixed with a cleric? When you switch to the DD class you get proficiency with Martial weapons. ;)
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Post by Acleacius »

Oh I am not disagreeing, I am only trying to simplfy it for simmy. ;)

Actually if I have to choose between the two I perfer your 1st level of Rogue better, if all you get is Martial, still I just wanted a nice strait class option on the board for simmy. :)
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Post by Who Cares »

Nice build.
My variation :) :
Two weapon style, Improved two weapon style instead of cleave & power attack. Then go in dual wield knives (yes knives), get greater invisibility (item by using 'use magic device' or resident mage) and you can stab people to your hearts content :)
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Post by Sain »

If your new, I wouldn't fiddle around with spells, that basicly means three classes to start with:Fighter, Barbarion or Paliden.
I would also recomend human aswell.
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Post by Snipercon »

A tip for everyone who wants to play with funky tripple/quad class builds.

Start the game.
Save the game immediatly.
Use the following console commands:
DebugMode 1
givexp 200000
DebogMode 0

Now take 10 minutes to level your character to level 20 two or three times.

This will help you figure out leveling patterns so not to waste skill points, and also make certain you can access the feats and prestige classes you want. Trust me it is agrivating in the middle of the game to realize you should have saved a level of bard so you can meet the lore requirement for dragon disciple without burning cross class skill points.
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