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Having not read any WW books about their world of vampires, i am curious of the ventrues beginnings, for example who was the founder of the clan, and any information about them would be appreciated.
Also i would like to hear your opinions about clan Ventrue?
Thanks
- LaCroix
ps Anyone who says anything bad about the ventrue will have a visit from the Sheriff!
Moving this to Pen 'n Paper Discussion, since it doesn't have anything to do with the game. I'll leave a redirect.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Not a hell of a lot of detail in gone into about clan founders, IE Antedeluvians, usualy, on the grounds that who they were is lost in the anulls of time and has been written, rewritten and rewritten again by each clan through each generation untill the modern nights when there are 1000 different stories about each leader and each makes them out to be a different kind of person. As for the glorious history of Clan Ventrue, the short version of it is as follows in yet another addition of:
PENNYPINCHER VAMPIRE THEATER.
The Ventrue clan were once considered the lowest members of the Great High clans... Being the clans who knew the difference bewteen a fork and a spoon and didn't spend most of their time rolling in their own poop. They were knights and nobles, templars and holy warriors. Once embraced the powers of fortitude allowed them to do wounderful thing such as catch arrows in their teeth, walk down spears to kill their enemies and take 30 blows from a sword while AFK without dying... Woah sorry wait, was thinking of World Of Warcraft... Ahem... The powers of Dominate allowed them to run convert anyone and the power of Presence meant all their troops were loyal, devoted and enthusiastic.
However, it was these suriving, returning knights that often became the barrons and dukes, princes and kings of the next generation, and so suddenly Ventrue ghouls and vampires found themselves with noble titles and land. Of course, they were already well suited to the role of strong leadership, and it was a time when people need strong leaders.
"Ere squire, you stole my pig!"
"No sir, I murdered you, raped your wife and stole your pig."
"But you anit done none of those other things."
"Then so as not to be called a dishonest man..." *sound of sword being drawn*
Bored knights returning from the crusades were often a little... Trigger happy, despite the lack of triggers at the time. They needed adventure and war and respect and blood shed, but people were mostly quiet and boring, so they would make their own fun unless a wise leader gave them something to do. So it was that clan Venture began their crusade against... Well, everyone! With the help of clan Malkavian they had already long ago crushed the Brujah, and now they turned their attention to clan Tzimisce, who in all honesty were dirty buggers anyway and needed a good wholoping.
Mid wholop however, there started another war, a war bewteen the humans and the vampires called "The Inquisition". It was about this time that the smarter vampires looked around and did some rough maths.
"Hey Bob, leader of clan Toreador?"
"Yes Frank, leader of clan Ventrue?"
"How many mortals would you say there were?"
"Oh, roughly lots..."
"Mhhmm, thanks for that. And how many of us would you say there were?"
"Ummm.. About not many?"
"Yeah... Well what happens if the humans decide to attack us... All of them?"
"We would band together in a glorious colition and crush them!"
"You think? Lets ask around... Hey Tony, leader of clan Brujah, would you help us crush all humans if they decided to kill us?"
"Help YOU? You rat scum, you burnt down our glorious city of carthage and killed our leaders!! I'd help the bloody mortals squish you... In fact, thats what I'm doing RIGHT NOW!" *storms off*
"Hey Lisa, leader of clan Gangrel, would you help us?"
"Leave me alone, I'm trying to invent the flea bath..."
"Right. Robert, leader of clan Tremere?"
"Um, we don't exist just yet. Can we get back to you?"
"Sure. Alice of clan Malkavian?"
"I'm A cUp Of CoFfEe!"
"... Of course you are dear... Rat Face of clan Nosferatue?"
"Corse I'd help man... Then I'd sell you out to the highest bidder faster then you could blink you stuffed shirt lump of lung butter!"
"Excellent... What about Andrie of clan Ravnos?"
"Um, he stole your pants and ran off, you've been wearing nothing but a badger for the past week..."
"Very well, lets not even ask the Settites, thats an obvious mistake, and the Giovanni don't exist yet cos they havent eaten all of clan Capadocian, who will only be dead soon so lets not ask them... What about you, Lasombra and Tzimisce?"
Which brings us to the next part of the story.
Clan Ventrue got together and organised a set of rules and regulations they called "The Traditions"... Logical things like "Don't tell people your a vampire and they wont burn you." and "Never pee into the wind". However some of their old, staunch enemies, despite the logic of the rules, were pretty bitter about the whole deal and didn't like the idea of not being able to be worshiped like dark blood gods, so they broke off and formed the Sabbat.
Of course, clan Venture were smart enough to put their people in the positions of power first and foremost, leading to the wise, cunning governing vampires you know today.
I'm going to go ahead and rename this thread so that it reflects not only ventrue but all clans. I'd like to see your take on Nosferatu, my personal fave.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson
Clan Gangrel, a history that... Isn't really... All that great... Sorta.
By their very nature, Clan Gangrel doesn't really have much clan structure, or much clan history too speak of, because they are constantly wandering around seperated from each other and don't usualy act as a group in many things. If you asked a Gangrel to get his/her clan together for some great activity, they'd prolly give you a very confused look and then wander off, Embrace someone, and come back saying: "There you go, we're all here buddy."
The second problem is, as a clan, they are somewhat feral and wild. They like to wander and interact with the animals and get to know the beast and such other creepy things that you can prolly download videos of from the net but may result in a police raid on your house. To that end, a lot of the history of the Gangrel focuses on what indivdual Gangrel have done, and not so much on the clan as a group. That being said, I hate individuals bitterly which is why I plan to re-populate the earth with robots, so I'll try and keep this as general as possable.
Lots of Gangrel claim gypsy heritage, and claim their founder was a gypsy as well. Unfortunatly, thats like saying "I'm from earth" and expecting someone to instantly know that your 25, from Russia, like long walks along the beach and sunsets and that your favourite food is Tuna on the belly of a naked Asian woman. It's generaly acepted, even by the Gangrel themselves, that this means Romainia Gypsy heritage... Which causes no end of hostility bewteen clan Gangrel and Clan Ravnos, both of whom see the other claiming Gypsy blood as a slap in the face to all Rom everywhere and fight to the bloody death over the matter... Sadly both clans have Fortitude, so these fights often take hours and hours and have the end result of the Ravnos using it's clan power to say "Look over there, a three headed Cammerilla Clan Founder!" and running away when the Gangrel looks and sees that there really is one there... Huzzar Chimestry!
By contrast however, they have always been a very martial clan. They do gather, once in a while, at meetings they call gathers... Displaying an overall lack of real imagination, or a total unwillingness to be bothered. At these meetings they talk and boast about great deeds they have done, respect always being shown to the eldest first, then they disperce again to perform more great martial deeds so they can boats more at the next meeting. Less likley to be the masterminds behind great wars and battles, and more likley to be the brutal force that agrees to travle along with the Brujah in the front ranks, they are usualy considered meaningless shock troops by both Cammerilla, Sabbat and Anarchs alike. Why you ask?... Well you got some balls interupting me!!
The clan has always shown a great disdain for politics and the jyhad, sorting out most of their problems by clawing at their enemies till they stop being alive any more. They ocassionaly acept positions such as Sherif or Scourge, anything that gives them enough respect that people leave them alone, but lets them wander around and boot some folks in the behind. This might stem from a short lived period in which they were all but totaly subserviant to clan Tzimisce. The Tzimisce took great delight in the Gangrel ability to change themselves at will and the fact that they were permently changed by the beast if they became to close to it, and took it upon themselves to bribe, trick, enslave, hire, bond or own as many Gangrel as they could, using them like hunting dogs to seek out their enemies. A Tzimisces power could be measured by the strength of his pack... However, like rabbid dogs, the Gangrel have a tendancy to turn suddenly when the last straw breaks their back.
The Cammerilla had been the home of the clan up untill recently. Xavier, the clans representitive on the council came to them in a panic declaring that he had seen a great monster he belived to be an Antedeluvian and that he wanted the Cammerilla to take action with him against such a mighty monster. The Inner Circles response was to pet him gently and tell him that theres no such as Antedeluvians and if he didn't pipe down about it they would put him outside like a bad puppy. Obviously, this didn't go down well, and he officaly detached clan Gangrel from the Cammerilla... Mind you, as Gangrel tend to do, he didn't really inform the other members of his clan, so as a whole, they sort of... Kept doing what they were doing and just sort of... Shrugged indifferently when Princes would inform them that they were officaly no longer with the Cammerilla. What difference did it make to them? It's not like they really ever saw each other anyway, so big whoop. As long as nobody pee'ed on their tree they were pretty much alright with it.
Of course, the greatest thing about clan Gangrel is the much vaunted "Understanding" they have the with Lupines... The Werewolves. The truth of the matter is, this is as much a matter of luck and convience as anything else. The Gangrel were intent on living in the wild, and there was little the Garou could do to dislodge them without losing dozens of their own number, and the Garou viewed the choice to move away from human society and live as one with nature as a better choice for Vampires then the alternative, and so the two came to a stand off where they mostly just agreed to stay out of each others way. Of course, this wasn't an offical, signed and sealed deal... Mostly a Gangrel as at as much risk from Werewolf attack as anyone unless they are very lucky, but thats a 100% risk decrease over "certain doom" so it seems like quite an achivment when you put it like that.
I can't say as I really looked into clan Nosferatue too much, but here's what I can tell you.
The founder of clan Nosferatue was a beauty beyond compare. The Vampires looked on him with great favour because he excelled in all things. He was a great song writer, and sung those songs better then any other. He was a dancer and a hunter beyond compare. He hunted and tracked one of the Vampires who made up Caines brood, and fought with it. Rather then ending his life, the vampires was so impressed with the mans great spirit and humor and ability that he was instead embraced. Aww! Isn't that sweet!? His beauty and power would be saved for all time.
However, during the fight, Nosferatue aquired a tiny scar on his cheek. You could only really see it in the right light, when he was looking straight down and you were sitting on his shoulder... It was just that small! Mind you, it was small, but eternal. The Embrace ensured that the little nick would remain a part of his features from now untill the day the sun went out and all life was frozen in place, naked and screaming.
Of course, to a man like Nosferatue, it was like a great screaming crater in his face threatening to twist in on itself like a great black hole and suck in all life. "Help! Help! Nosferatues face is destorying Tokyo!" people would cry as they fleed in terror, below average quality speical effects and music would play and his translation would be very poor, his subtitles reading something along the lines of "I am destory. Run, or time you not." GASP!
He became bitter and closed in, recluse and angry. He was so enraged that when the other vampires rose up against their creators, he joined in with gusto, taking great delight in finaly killing the bugger who had so horridly marked him for the rest of eternity. Caine was, obviously, less then tickled pink by all that, and decided that he was so vain that the best punishment for him was to be... Really gross! Suffice to say, Nosferatue wasn't impressed.
Now, this is a bit tricky, so bear with me and remember this. Either his sire wasn't destoryed fully, or he embraced another childe as well, or Nosferatue embraced another childe... Depending on who you ask. Either way, remember that there was another Vampire mixed into Nosferatues bloodline named Nicktuku. Just... Jot it down some place!
The dark ages were wounderful times to be a Nosferatue. No Masquerade meant no living in sewers or caves, but instead walking amoung mortals like a great, disgusting blood god, bloating yourself on the viate of the living and being worshiped like a king. They always showed a tendancy for cunning, stealth and wisdom, as they couldn't get away with a lot without being instantly recognised looking as they did. None too shockingly, the inquisition hit them pretty hard.
"Excuse me pesant, we are looking for a demon."
"A demon you say? What manner of demon, how will I know it?"
"Well, have you seen anything... Demonic looking?"
"Demonic? Such as... A man who was 9 feet tall?"
"Aye"
"With sunken, yellow eyes that glittered with faint purple light?"
"Aye!"
"And long teeth that broke through his own cheeks, ripping his face apart when he spoke casuing him to spit blood?"
"Aye! Like that!"
"And was so skinny that his bones and organs showed clearly through the transperant flesh, but was monsterously strong, lifting horse and cart at once and tossing it at those who displeased him?"
"Gads man! Exactly!! Thats the very beat himself!"
"Whos flesh was constantly shiny with a thin layer of sticky, stinking **** that made anyhting he wore damp, while his nose was gone, leaving only a skeletal hole that flickered with torn flesh when he laughed, leaking constantly down his lips and chin as bugs crawled over his pock marked body, clambering bewteen the holes in his body to lay their eggs?"
"By the lord, thats the very monster itself, the great enemy of God!"
"Nope, havent seen him, sorry."
"..."
When the opertunity for the Vampires to join together and hide from the mortals arose, guess who was there whispering plans and ideas into the ears of larger, more social clans like Ventrue and Torreador? If you guessed anyone but Nosferatue, you get NO POINTS! They were pleased as punch with the idea of hidding, nobody hid like the Nosferatue. There was only one problem...
"Wait wait wait, why do we need Clan Noserfatue? I mean, they don't even LOOK human, how can they be anything but a threat to the Masquerade?"
"Well, we'll stay hidden! And we have powers that make us look normal!"
"Yes, but those powers are difficult to learn and use, what if someone sees you? I think this is an overall bad idea."
"Uh oh!"
Nobody who was interested in the Masquerade was very interested in the idea of keeping clan Nosferatue, after all, all they were doing was risking the Masquerade, they weren't really giving a lot back. So it was that clan Nosferatue did what they did best... Adapted. They took to the art of politics, black mail, eves dropping, sneaking and spying like ducks to water. It was like they were built for the task... Or more realisticly, like they had chosen to do something they were already well suited for. The clan as a whole took on the role of informants and spies, making perfect additions to any princes court. They quickly became priceless, as they soon knew all the dirt on every clan, and as many of their numbers were historians and sages before this time (as they were usualy the kind of people who didn't mind that they had to be ugly as sin in order to live forever) they already had the upper hand.
Since that time, thats what they have done. Skukled about and been wise and cunning. They have a brotherhood and understanding unlike any other clan, sticking together through thick and thin, to the point where even when they join the Sabbat, they usualy join all Nosferatue packs and remain in good comunication with their Cammerilla brothers. Often it's said that "There are no Nosferatue in the Cammerilla or Sabbat, just Nosferatue."
Corse, that isn't always true, but there you go.
For a long long long long long long long long time the Nosferatue had it pretty good. Nobody messed with the clan that had all their dirt, it just wasn't worth the risk. No prince tried to claim the sewers as their own domain, so that was always Nossie turf. If any body had a problem with one of the Nosferatue, they just fled into hidding and that was the last that was ever seen of them untill it had all blown over as each of the Nosferatue took care of their brothers and sisters. However, recently, something a little messy has cropped up.
Under the city, under the water works and the pooh pipes and the Nosferatue caves, something has been digging, and when that something finds a Nosferatue Warren, all the Nosferatue in it vanish. They Nosferatue have put themselves in a tight corner, because while they are hard to find when you live on the street, they are nice and easy to find when you dig from the earth up. This thing has been hunting them without pause, killing each and every one of them, and this thing is called Nicktuku. Now, no matter what the circumstances of the birth of Nicktuku, if it is the childe of the father of Nosferatue, his father himself, or a childe of Nosferatues come seeking to destory the errant childer, it means bad news.
Dear Pennypincher. I have no truly mentionable background knowledge concerning the world of darkness, save 4 bloodlines, the game. I loved it so much that i downloaded the book of nod, but would like to find out all i can about the histories of the clans, origin and 'contents' of the sabbat, etc. Could you, since you are obviously well informed, tell me where i can find information on this beautiful world?
[QUOTE=GravenWraith]Dear Pennypincher. I have no truly mentionable background knowledge concerning the world of darkness, save 4 bloodlines, the game. I loved it so much that i downloaded the book of nod, but would like to find out all i can about the histories of the clans, origin and 'contents' of the sabbat, etc. Could you, since you are obviously well informed, tell me where i can find information on this beautiful world?[/QUOTE]
Ah, yes, well... Thats kinda tough that one. You see...
In first edition Vampire, the Sabbat was more of a mentioned thing, rather then a solid, well written and scripted thing... IE: The horror of the group known only as The Sabbat.. Wooo.. Wet yourself in fear! It wasn't really untill third edition they were fully scripted out and flushed out and made to be something we could look at with the naked eye and say "Ah HA! I knew there was nudity invovled somehow!"
If you wanted the fully nitty gritty details, you could pick yourself up a copy of "The Guide To The Sabbat"... Which if you're willing to fork out some extra bucks comes in a delightful leather bound copy with "The Guide To The Cammerilla" both in a hard back holder... Really pretty! You might also want "The Dirty Secrets Of The Black Hand." just to flesh things out a little, thou it's pretty safe to ignore 90% of that, as I think White Wolf took it off the shelf latter with blushing faces, applogising for things like "Antedeluvians in the basement" and "Entier ghost cities". Fair enough too, for shame white wolf! For shame!
However, the short, dirty, hard, rough, sexy version of the sabbat goes kinda like this:
Way back when the Inquisition was wandering around burning anything with two legs, the Vampire comunity got together and shook hands on the idea of no longer running around with neon signs above their heads reading "Dark Blood Drinking Demon." However, a small group of clans looked at what was being said and paused in thought for a moment, quickly comming to the realisation that a formal structure such as the Cammerilla would mean only one thing. The elders would be at the top For All Eternity and the young would be at the bottom for all time... The only way the young vampires could ever get anywhere would be to make younger vampires and rule over them... And this was brutaly in the face of all the teachings of Caine that had survived time.
That being said, they decided not to join the Cammerilla... In fact, the Tzimisce rep was so peeve he/she/it plucked off it's own genitals and lobbed them angrily across the table to the Ventrue rep, who kept them as a token of affection... Or something... That last part was a lie. Tzimisce, along with Lasbomra, made a break for it and became the first real Anarchs. They took a few members of the other clans with them, but most of the other Elders agreed to stick with the new idea. Those who went against the wishes of their clan became known as "Anti Clans"... Which translates roughly to "Antitribue" or "Against the tribe."
So the Lasombra and Tzmisce formed a few crazy ideas... Seeing as the elders of the clans wanted to be on top, who would be on top of them? Older vampires. That meant the oldest vampires in the world would always be on top... And who was the oldest vampires? The Antedeluvians. It was obvious these acient beings were powerful and cunning and evil, and it seemed obvious to the Sabbat that all they wanted was their acient war to conitue under the guise of peace in the Cammerilla... So the Sabbat was formed, and their doctrine was simple.
"Wolves feed from sheep. Wolves don't DRESS like sheep, they don't ACT like sheep and they don't mingle with the Sheep, they just kill, and feed. Your a wolf, put away that lamb skin coat and lets look at the big picture. The only way you'll ever truly be free is if you can kill and consume those who opress you."
Now, this idea worked GREAT in theory, but in practise it was just a little flawed. You see, Tzimisce and Lasombra claimed victory over their Antedeluvian founders, finding their hidden crypts and feasting on their acient blood, draining their mighty souls and declaring themselves free... However, it's bordering on madness to think a creature with Auspex 10 wouldn't know that you were planning to diablerise it... They happily let themselves be destoryed and quietly took up resiedence in the bodies of their new hosts...
Tzimisce took this to the extreme. He gathered more and more flesh to himself untill he became a giant, fleshy temple of bone and blood and muscle under the sewers of New York... Extreme? Yes... But where the hell do you stake something like that??
Any other member of the great clans who wished to join the Sabbat (or was drafted in their brutal and bloody crusades) kept most of the same powers... A few opting for more martial or more cunning powers over their old ones... And became Antitribue.
Theres more too it, but thats the quick version. Suffice to say, yum yum Vaulderie. All praise caine, lets eat all other vampires who aren't us.. Wait, you mean we were right? Damm, squit. The end.
I thank you, o learned one. Your graphic depictions of the answer to my question was greatly appreciated. I do have the curse of an unquenchable thirst for knowledge on this matter. So know that your tutoring will not go by undevoured. I will prolly have 2buy those books over the net, as i am resident in south africa, and such material is hard to find here.
You are most welcome. If your REALLY itching for copies of the old books, and don't mind reading them from the screen rather then in traditional paper form, you might try
At least, I think thats the adress. The white wolf website has adds for it, as all their old, out of print material can be downloaded from there. I imagine thats something like http://www.white-wolf.com
Of course, there are likley places you can get it for free, but thats stealing and white wolf do a fantastic job with most of their books and games, so I'd suggest paying the price to get offical copies so that they can keep pumping out materials.
I spose if you like vampire, but want more brutal violence you can try Werewolf: The Appocolypse. If you want mental torment and horror, you can try Wraith: The Oblivion. If you want a game the doesn't work very well and ends up with you and your Story Teller arguing over mechanics for hours, you can try Mage: The Acension. If you want mind numbling idiotic buffy style action, you can have Hunter: The Reckoning. If you like trying to keep the dreams of the people alive while drowning in your own bitterness, you can have a shot at Changeling: The Dreaming. If you find being, basicly invincable and having no challenge to a game what so ever, you can chug away with Demon: The Fallen.
