Parry Bugged ?!

Dreez · Post by **Dreez** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:13 am

I just reinstalled NwN and started from scratch with a new fighter having these
stats. STR:16, DEX:13, CON:16, INT:13, WIS:9, CHA:9.
Since its the first time im playing in a long while i wanted to build a very fun
character to play so i went for a more "technical" fighter using Parry and Taunt.
The problem is that eventhou i have chosed Parry/Improved Parry, i never get a
riposte , not even on the most basic enemies. Is parry bugged or jsut simply
useless. Do i have to redo my char all over again

.

/edit: I have now done some research and everyone that seems to know abit
about this game says that Parry is the most useless Feat ingame, so i guess
ill be forced to restart my character from scratch .... AGAIN.

Question: Why have these useless Feats in a game since all they do
is destroy charbuilds that will never be effective

.

Im begging to remeber why i quit NwN, because there is only 1 way to
build each class. You cannot build a fighter based on techniqe , only power.

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:52 pm

well one thing i like about NwN is the class limit of three different classes.

that prevents people from doin that "oh i'll take 10 lvls of mage, 3 paladin, 3 monk, 3 rogue, 5 barbarian, and 6 fighter"

but yea i agree they need to make this more diverse and not the narrow line "u r a fighter wear the heaviest armor you can find and kill all u see". i mean isnt that why they made these new versions with all these feats anyways, to have more diversity???

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:36 pm

To answer your first question, yes Parry is bugged. To get a riposte, you need to score 20 points over your opponent's attack score. This usually means you are looking around getting 35 or more on your Parry roll. This can be quite hard to do! And furthermore, you can only Parry the first three attacks in any one round.

So no, a Parry fighter is not really worth it, unfortunately.

NWN is quite limited on character builds, unfortunately. Especially when considering fighters.

Cheers,
TGHO

Noober · Post by **Noober** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:15 pm

The parry bug is as follows:

A round is broken into three attack animations in which all attacks are registered. For example if a character has five attacks they consist of:

Sequence 1: Attacks one and two
Sequence 2: Attacks three and four
Sequence 3: Attack five

Only animaitons for attacks one, three and five are shown.

Parry will allow one block per animation sequence. i.e. attack one, three and five are parried, but not two or four.

If you were to fight, it would appear that you are being hit more however the actual result would be parry, unopposed, parry, unopposed, parry.

Something else that I'm not sure is true, is that the unopposed attacks always hit, regardless of AB/AC.

Of course such a skill would be possibly useful against three attack enemies, however to use parry properly, high DEX is required, at the expense of STR generally (and therefore Dev. Crit etc.).

EDIT: There's plenty of character diveristy in NWN. Do you want a list of viable builds and all variations?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:53 pm

[QUOTE=Dreez]<snip>
Question: Why have these useless Feats in a game since all they do
is destroy charbuilds that will never be effective

.

Im begging to remeber why i quit NwN, because there is only 1 way to
build each class. You cannot build a fighter based on techniqe , only power.[/QUOTE]

Because everything in this game isn't about powergaming or perfect builds.
There is a thing called roleplaying as well, and I can think of many usages for parry in that aspect.

Admo · Post by **Admo** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:53 am

Also if you're looking for a "technique" based fighter high dex is the way to go. A Dex-based fighter is certainly a viable build (even more so in the role playing aspect) - taking feats like dodge, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind, etc. And you can still throw points at taunt. The result is a fighter that can dodge more or less everything, and can hit more or less anything - they just won't do as much damage per hit as a strength based fighter.

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:46 pm

Parry based fighter

To date one of my two most favorite characters was a DEX based warrior. The character concept is a swashbuckler/rogue. He is a Rogue/Shadow Dancer(for HiPS)/Weapon Master.

The high dex works really well for this character. He doesn't get hit much, and with weapon finesse he hits a lot. He does a lot of his damage with his backstab, but at times he fights toe to toe doing a few points of damage at a time, and rarely being hit. When he does get clobbered, he drinks a potion. Due to lower hit points, he goes through a lot of potions.

If you are playing the base campaign, you can get a couple of light swords that daze. There is a Will save, so most warriors fail their save about 1/2 the time, while mages, etc. usually make it. While they are dazed, your hits count as backstabs. It's actually pretty funny to watch. Hit, daze, backstab-hit, daze, backstab, dead.

With regards to Parry, this is the only character where I have invested points in that skill. What I find is that the riposte generally only happens when my opponent would have missed anyway. And when my openent would have hit anyway, I often don't make my parry roll. This resulted in being hit a little less, but hitting a lot less. Because of that I find it more efficient not to parry, but just use a normal attack.

Probably what I enjoyed most about this character is that he isn't a power house. You have to use some tactics in order to win fights, like backstabs and laying traps. Some of my other characters are power-houses and after a while of just bashing though everything, I get bored with them.

Hope this helps.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:54 pm

[QUOTE=Xandax]Because everything in this game isn't about powergaming or perfect builds.
There is a thing called roleplaying as well, and I can think of many usages for parry in that aspect.[/QUOTE]

I can't think of any roleplaying applications for Parry in NWN... It certainly doesn't come up in anyone's conversation tree, nor are there any quests relating to it. What are your thoughts, Xandax?

I do disagree with Dreez, in that I think that there are many ways to build any class of character, but I can't find a use for parry within the game!

Cheers mate,
TGHO

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:50 am

[QUOTE=The Great Hairy]I can't think of any roleplaying applications for Parry in NWN... It certainly doesn't come up in anyone's conversation tree, nor are there any quests relating to it. What are your thoughts, Xandax?
<snip>
[/QUOTE]

Because things dosen't come up in a dialogtree in the scripted singleplayer game dosen't mean it can't be roleplayed.
Roleplaying is staying in character and acting as such, so if you for instance build a high dex finess warrior type, parry would indeed be a good skill from roleplaying aspect. From the powergaming-min/maxer view parry isn't good, but from other aspects it has validation.
Roleplaying isn't in my view simply doing the quests in the game and talking via the dialog tree.
If you look beyond the simple mechanics and limited implementation you can roleplay most everything - granted it is a lot more fun and easy in multiplayer games, and it takes some selfdiscipline.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:25 am

[QUOTE=Xandax]Because things dosen't come up in a dialogtree in the scripted singleplayer game dosen't mean it can't be roleplayed.
Roleplaying is staying in character and acting as such, so if you for instance build a high dex finess warrior type, parry would indeed be a good skill from roleplaying aspect. From the powergaming-min/maxer view parry isn't good, but from other aspects it has validation.
Roleplaying isn't in my view simply doing the quests in the game and talking via the dialog tree.
If you look beyond the simple mechanics and limited implementation you can roleplay most everything - granted it is a lot more fun and easy in multiplayer games, and it takes some selfdiscipline.[/QUOTE]

otoh, (provided you own one of the expansions) a dex based ftr could put their skill points in "tumble" instead for many of the same reasons one would use parry - and since tumble is a passive skill it works just fine (though it is cross class for ftr), to complete the package the "expertise" feats could be used.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:48 am

[QUOTE=koz-ivan]otoh, (provided you own one of the expansions) a dex based ftr could put their skill points in "tumble" instead for many of the same reasons one would use parry - and since tumble is a passive skill it works just fine (though it is cross class for ftr), to complete the package the "expertise" feats could be used.[/QUOTE]

Didn't say you couldn't place points in other skils as well - although I doubt many would choose tumble if they made it proberly so it didn't provide the AC bonus

But yes. Tumble would definately be one of the skill choices I would make for a "finess" (not the feat, but type) fighter when roleplaying him.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:58 pm

[QUOTE=Xandax]Because things dosen't come up in a dialogtree in the scripted singleplayer game dosen't mean it can't be roleplayed.
Roleplaying is staying in character and acting as such, so if you for instance build a high dex finess warrior type, parry would indeed be a good skill from roleplaying aspect. From the powergaming-min/maxer view parry isn't good, but from other aspects it has validation.
Roleplaying isn't in my view simply doing the quests in the game and talking via the dialog tree.
If you look beyond the simple mechanics and limited implementation you can roleplay most everything - granted it is a lot more fun and easy in multiplayer games, and it takes some selfdiscipline.[/QUOTE]

Generally, I agree with you. However, one is stuck with the limitations of the format (computer style gaming), the limitations of the scripting (what you can do within the game) and the limitations of the scenario (what the module offers in the way of roleplaying).

I don't want to get into a major discussion here about my thoughts on PC gaming in general, I just want to point out that even if you are roleplaying your PC in NWN, putting points in Parry is a waste because game engine problems stop the skill from performing as it should. In a PnP game, this would not be a problem. In a CRGP, this is a problem, as it imposes a limitation on how you play the game.

When I am playing one of these styles of game, I will (if I am enjoying the game) build a backstory for my PC, have internal monologues and yes, generally, roleplay. However, being an avid PnP player and GM, I tend to get my roleplaying fix outside the computer, and as such a lot of time just power-game whilst playing a CRPG.

I would have loved Parry to work properly. I'd love it even more if there were NPC dialogue or even a minor quest related to the skill. However I'm not going to use it when it is broken.

Cheers,
TGHO