"Any spare change?" (minimal spam please)

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:56 pm

The recent political stance thread got me to thinking about some of my own views... *sigh*... Always a mistake..

Well, I began to consider my reaction to people on the street who repeatedly ask for change... Now, if somebody appears to be in genuine need, I don't hesitate to help them out, usually I will offer to buy them a sandwich or something. The reason I don't just give them money, is because an offer of food tends to sort out those people who are genuinely hungry from those feeding a substance abuse problem (while I understand the need to escape, the reality is that when the 'high" wears off the belly will still be empty...).

Nonetheless, I get really irritated by those individuals who feel the world owes them a living. I am talking about the scraggly drum beaters who hang out on street corners, whose sum total vocabulary consists of: Hey man, work is a bourgeois concept, oh by the way, you got any spare change?

I strongly support a state-sponsored social safety net, I feel that both the state and corporations should be responible for helping people to get off the ground so that they can become self-sufficient, I think that any and all post-secondary education and/or job/career training should be free, I believe that every nation in the world should have a state-run, socialised medicare system...
But I get really annoyed by people who feel the need to insult you because you actually want to earn a living, and then they have the gall to ask for handouts....

Other thoughts and/or opinions ?

Paranitis · Post by **Paranitis** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:59 pm

Easily remedied..go for the "Soylent Green" approach.

You kill the a-holes that you are talking about..turn em into food, and give em to the ones that are hungry!

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:01 pm

lol, cute.. but I'm being serious... hence the request for 'minimal spam'

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:03 pm

I usually give everyone except said stinkin hippie drum losers whatever I can, mostly because I know it's hard and if they're buying drugs they'll get rid of themselves soon enough.. Plus a lot of em buy beer, and while that's not going to get you off the street, personal studies show it will keep you alive for a good period of time..

Paranitis · Post by **Paranitis** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:07 pm

Well seriously I also like doing the same thing you do..such as offering to buy these people food rather than handing them money..mostly because I don't trust anyone..and because if I were in their situation I think I would feel better knowing someone actually cares enough to go out of there way to give me something to sustain myself for another day.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:22 pm

Its a mixed bag for me, at times I look at them and feel sorry. And at other times I look in thier little jar and realize I need some spare change as well.

I honestly can say I am mixed about this... I live in Pretty Redondo Beach... not many homeless here. And living in USA not a lot of drum beating hipsters avoiding work... 90% of those who ask for change (in my experiance) are sorry sights.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:23 pm

I have a story to tell on this topic..

Back in the grunge era when I was dirty, unshaven, and had long dirty hair, I used to work at a fast food place..

This homeless guy used to come and order food..
He really didn't look much worse than me and he had a bike so transportation was not his problem.. not in that town anyway, it's pretty small..
He paid me one day and I happened to notice a softball-sized wad of cash with many $20 bills in it.. So I asked him why he's homeless and living like that.. He response was that he couldn't find a job.. This guy was pretty normal-looking.. not poor-spoken, not too dirty (the shelter has showers too so he has no escuse there), and he wsa in his early 30s I would say.. I was 16 and almost as rough as him and I got the job the day I came in.. ONe of the managers had about 10 teeth from smoking meth.. Him saying that he can't find a job is total crap..

My point is this..

While there are times when people genuinely need help.. And trust me, I've been there.. The vast majority of people in trouble are there becasue of some fault of their own..

I don't want to be too hard on people but I think it's true.. My problems have all been my fault.. I'll admit that.. I also won't turn down help when it's offered.. The difference is that I won't take it if I don't need it..

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:02 pm

dragon wench wrote: The reason I don't just give them money, is because an offer of food tends to sort out those people who are genuinely hungry from those feeding a substance abuse problem.

Sadly in todays world this is the only option. I will go in the store and buy the person a drink or food, but never give them money. Most I have ran into decide they are not thristy or hungry.

Nonetheless, I get really irritated by those individuals who feel the world owes them a living. I am talking about the scraggly drum beaters who hang out on street corners, whose sum total vocabulary consists of: Hey man, work is a bourgeois concept, oh by the way, you got any spare change?

I can say I have never had this happen.

You can bet I will not be giving this person anything.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:44 pm

I just thought of this..

You hardly ever see " Will work for food" anymore.. People are gettin LAZY!

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:53 pm

[QUOTE=jopperm2]I just thought of this..

You hardly ever see " Will work for food" anymore.. People are gettin LAZY![/QUOTE]

Also it depends on the location as well. You can almost always catch someone (with the sign) willing to work at the intersection of I-10 and 110 in Pensacola (Fla). The law finally gave up on running them off. No new people that I can tell though..the same people willing to work.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:55 pm

I see "Help Please" and whatnot all the time, but no workers..

PS> are you from the sunshine state?

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:03 pm

I avoid donating cash always. I think food is an important thing to be given, but cash may lead to drug use.

In Brazil the problems go a bit ahead of this... for example, people dont ask in streets only, but they come at your door asking for money. This is dangerous (because the person may want to rob you) and unfortunately you cant avoid. Where I live now is a very isolated place, so this has not happened ever since we moved, what is a good thing.

I also have two families that my family help. One of them is very poor, a single woman with eight children (dont ask) and the other is an elder couple who have no one but themselves to hang on to. We help them with food and clothes. Food every month, clothes every christmas. Its not much, but it helps.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:06 pm

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]
In Brazil the problems go a bit ahead of this... for example, people dont ask in streets only, but they come at your door asking for money. This is dangerous (because the person may want to rob you) and unfortunately you cant avoid. Where I live now is a very isolated place, so this has not happened ever since we moved, what is a good thing.[/QUOTE]

In Florida we shoot at strangers who come to the door..

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]
I also have two families that my family help. One of them is very poor, a single woman with eight children (dont ask) and the other is an elder couple who have no one but themselves to hang on to. We help them with food and clothes. Food every month, clothes every christmas. Its not much, but it helps.[/QUOTE]

I commend you.. I wish everyone was like this, then I wouldn't have to pay 6% sales tax.. *grumble*

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:15 pm

@jopperm, In Florida you dont build concrete walls around your house for standard safety... I guess I havent explained. The door goes better as the front gate of your house

so yes, if he was at the real door of my house I'll feel the need to shoot, but... nevermind.
Taxes are not for the needy, taxes are for the sustaining of the government machine... and we pay a lot. We have the highest taxes among the poor countries, and it is told that every year we work 4 months only to pay taxes. *sigh*

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:39 pm

[QUOTE=jopperm2]
PS> are you from the sunshine state?[/QUOTE]

Nope.

right across the line in Crimson Tide country...(no War Eagles allowed.)

O/T, it hasn't gotten to the point of having people come to my door wanting money yet, and I hope it never does.

frogus23 · Post by **frogus23** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 8:16 am

I give people money...

I don't give people food - not everybody on the street is starving, and people have many more needs than sandwiches. If they spend their money on drugs, who gives a ****, so do I.

I have a lot of sympathy for people that get into chronic drug abuse...it is not just their fault, full stop. Nobody wants to live on the street destroying their body with skag...so in that case I don't think it's a question of the world owing them a living...I think the world does owe them a life worth living.

As for anti-property hipster hippies who take your money cos they don't believ in earning it, I have never met any.

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 8:25 am

Several years ago, I was out of a job and short of cash. Standing in line at a Day Labor place (go in, get a job for the day, they pay you cash when the day is over), I was approached by a woman asking me for money. She looked pretty young and healthy. I laughed, and asked her if she had any to spare. She persisted and asked me again, so I pointed to the desk where the guy sat handing out one-day jobs to people. "Get in line, get a job today, and you won't need to ask anyone for money. Hell, you don't even need a car, they'll come and pick you up." She mumbled something and walked off.

I went through a phase when I lived in Augusta, Georgia, where I would take homeless people into my house and give them a place to stay while I tried to help them find a job. Perhaps that sounds crazy, but then I have never claimed to be completely sane, now have I? I did this with about 5 homeless guys over the course of a year, and not a one of them ever wanted to pursue any of the job leads I had for them. Mind you, I wasn't arranging corprorate power-lunches for these guys...instead, some fellows I knew in construction agreed to take some of them on and pay them decently for being a helper on job sites...or pay them even more if they were skilled. Either way, they would have been making enough money to go in on an apartment with some roommates, or go on their own if they had good skills. I let them use my phone number on applications, my address as a residence, and would give them money for bus transportation and lunches every day. Without fail, I ended up taking these guys to the Salvation Army shelter in Augusta, because all they ended up doing was eat my food and take my money.

I ended up buying a Greyhound bus ticket for one guy to send him home to his mother in Missouri. That fellow was perhaps the worst...he would take the money I gave him for bus travel and lunch and buy cheap wine with it.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:42 am

[QUOTE=frogus23]I give people money...

I don't give people food - not everybody on the street is starving, and people have many more needs than sandwiches. If they spend their money on drugs, who gives a ****, so do I.

I have a lot of sympathy for people that get into chronic drug abuse...it is not just their fault, full stop. Nobody wants to live on the street destroying their body with skag...so in that case I don't think it's a question of the world owing them a living...I think the world does owe them a life worth living.

As for anti-property hipster hippies who take your money cos they don't believ in earning it, I have never met any.[/QUOTE]

I agree that nobody wants to live on the street.. But what you have to realize is that drugs are illegal and for good reason.. Ever notice that most of the trash on this planet does them? And for those that favor legalization I say this, the fact that most of the bums on this planet does them doesn't make a very good case for legalization, it make a good case for rounding them all up on a barge, towing into the ocean and sinking it to make nice little reefs so that the water is nice and pretty for decent peolple to sit next to and drink little frozen umbrella drinks..

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]@jopperm, In Florida you dont build concrete walls around your house for standard safety... I guess I havent explained. The door goes better as the front gate of your house so yes, if he was at the real door of my house I'll feel the need to shoot, but... nevermind.
Taxes are not for the needy, taxes are for the sustaining of the government machine... and we pay a lot. We have the highest taxes among the poor countries, and it is told that every year we work 4 months only to pay taxes. *sigh*[/QUOTE]

That's right, we don't build concrete walls around our homes.. And I'm glad.. I wish you didn't have to either.. I realize that your area has a crime problem.. But I guarantee you that if I could get away with it I would start shooting if they came to the gate too and when the bodies start piling up, people would stop coming..
ALso, I don't believe in government machines.. there is very little that tax money is spend on that is worth while..

@chanak: Kudos.. Someone doing what they should do, helping people voluntarily and discovering the garbage that they were.. I commend you.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:35 pm

jopperm2 wrote:While there are times when people genuinely need help.. And trust me, I've been there.. The vast majority of people in trouble are there becasue of some fault of their own..

Depends on what you mean is fault of their own. If a psychiatric illness for example is their own fault, then I guess that is true, or if you look at poor nations, injuries or poor parents also would be faults of their own.

Frogus wrote:I don't give people food - not everybody on the street is starving, and people have many more needs than sandwiches. If they spend their money on drugs, who gives a ****, so do I.

I also think its good to give money even to drug addicts, but for another reason. People with serious drug abuse problems prioritize drugs were high. Perhaps the money I give to someone will go to drugs. In that case I hope the poor sod can spend the rest of the evening begging for money for food instead, or dont have to prostitute herself, or skip smashing that shop window in hope for some easy cash.

As for anti-property hipster hippies who take your money cos they don't believ in earning it, I have never met any.

I've never met any either. This despite living in the semi-socialist, responsibility-hating swedish culture. Perhaps its an American phenomenon.

Now in general, I will certainly dont look down upon someone for not giving change to beggars, I think it can be motivated quite easily. However its cowardly to pretend they are nothing but lazy parasites who get what they deserve. Take some responsibility for gods sake, no matter what you choose to do.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:56 pm

[QUOTE=Dottie] Depends on what you mean is fault of their own. If a psychiatric illness for example is their own fault, then I guess that is true, or if you look at poor nations, injuries or poor parents also would be faults of their own. [/QUOTE]

Mental illness is a difficult one.. Some of them are really sick, some of them got it from too much drugs.. And some of it is society taking fault away from people's problems.. I remember when there was a time someone could be "stupid" or "crazy," and I think people still can be.. And there is a difference between real problems and that.

I don't fault people in poor nations that live on the street.. There are places where dyou really don't have a chance.. Say Haiti, those people aren't at fault for their problems, but the leaders of that trash heap should certainly be drug into the street and beaten to death.

Where I come from poor parents is no excuse. Now I realize I'm from America and most places don't have the kind of social mobility that we have here.. So I can really only speak for Americans in this respect. My Dad was unemployed for most of his life and died at 47, he rarely paid the child support that he was supposed to and didn't really do much to help me either.. My mother was a high school dropout who later decided that she hated the only career that she was qualified for and now is about to get fired from a crappy industrial job because she can't quit calling in sick. I don't think anything about my financial situation has much to do with either of them.. Again, that was just for America. I'm sure a lot of places have it this good as well.. Not some though..

[QUOTE=Dottie]
I also think its good to give money even to drug addicts, but for another reason. People with serious drug abuse problems prioritize drugs were high. Perhaps the money I give to someone will go to drugs. In that case I hope the poor sod can spend the rest of the evening begging for money for food instead, or dont have to prostitute herself, or skip smashing that shop window in hope for some easy cash. [/QUOTE]

I agree.. But I don't agree in government contributing to these people.. I think charity should be voluntary.. And I still blame people if they can't get any charity and resort to these crimes..

[QUOTE=Dottie]
I've never met any either. This despite living in the semi-socialist, responsibility-hating swedish culture. Perhaps its an American phenomenon.
[/QUOTE]

I haven't met any either, but in Florida these types would probably get the crap beat out of them by some rednecks.. There are only a few places in America liberal enough to warrant this stuff but DW is Canadian.

[QUOTE=Dottie]
Now in general, I will certainly dont look down upon someone for not giving change to beggars, I think it can be motivated quite easily. However its cowardly to pretend they are nothing but lazy parasites who get what they deserve. Take some responsibility for gods sake, no matter what you choose to do. [/QUOTE]

I don't take responsibility for anyone's problems but my own.. And I talk to people in financial trouble all day.. I work for a loan company..

PS> I think most disability is a scam.. I know a lot of people on it that are perfectly capable of working.. I think those types when found should be jailed and forced to work off the money they stole from taxpayers..