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To dream or not to dream.

This forum is to be used for any discussion pertaining to Black Isle Studios' cancelled Baldur's Gate III: The Black Hound project or speculation over the possibility that Atari will eventually have a true sequel developed.
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Xandax
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Post by Xandax »

I've seen various rumours that BG3 would be produced - however nothing substantial (yet :D ).

However - I think a major factor would be that they would have to start with a new character - after all the ToB level was just insane, and the endings kind of spelled the end of that character.

So if another BG has to be made - it would be a new character - but what about storyline?
You couldn't play another Bhaalspawn, because after all - that saga ended with the character in BG2-ToB. Otherwise you have to play a bhaalspawn that doesn't care about his heritage and isn't influenced by it (doubtful according to the BG-series storyline).

The only way I see a BG3 being produced would be with a brand new storyline, trying to capture some of the "fame" from the name Bladur's Gate. I have a hard time seeing the usage of a BG3 as more then a marketing strategy. (Much like I fear Fallout 3 is being used by Bethesda :D , but that is a different matter).
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Post by BuckGB »

With Atari's recent onslaught of Dungeons & Dragons games, I don't doubt that they have a developer currently working on Baldur's Gate III. After all, the most reputable PC gaming magazine wouldn't post something like that without some substantial proof... or would they?

If Baldur's Gate III is indeed in the works, then I can't imagine any developer would want to stray from the Bhaalspawn storyline. The game may not actually involve you playing a Bhaalspawn character, but instead traveling the Forgotten Realms on a mission that involves the events of the first two games. This is only my own personal speculation, of course, but I think moving away from the Bhaalspawn storyline would be disasterous.

Do you think it's possible that BioWare would return to Baldur's Gate? Since Dragon Age is a "spiritual successor to NWN and BG", I highly doubt it. Obsidian would probably love to work on it, but with NWN 2 and KotOR II in development, I'm not sure they have the staffing to do it. The only other substantial CRPG developer with Black Isle/Dungeons & Dragons experience I can think of would be Troika. Since they worked with Atari on Temple of Elemental Evil, they just might be the best guess.
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Post by werebeargoddess »

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]If Baldur's Gate III is indeed in the works, then I can't imagine any developer would want to stray from the Bhaalspawn storyline. The game may not actually involve you playing a Bhaalspawn character, but instead traveling the Forgotten Realms on a mission that involves the events of the first two games. This is only my own personal speculation, of course, but I think moving away from the Bhaalspawn storyline would be disasterous.
[/QUOTE]

You mean, it takes place during the first two games, and during it, you hear much about what's going on, but your player character follows his/her own storyline?
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Post by BuckGB »

[QUOTE=werebeargoddess]You mean, it takes place during the first two games, and during it, you hear much about what's going on, but your player character follows his/her own storyline?[/QUOTE]
It's tough to say. It could take place before, during, or after the events of the original games. I just don't see how a third installment could even bear the Baldur's Gate name without being involved with the Bhaalspawn storyline in some way.
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Post by Xandax »

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]<snip>
Do you think it's possible that BioWare would return to Baldur's Gate? Since Dragon Age is a "spiritual successor to NWN and BG", I highly doubt it. Obsidian would probably love to work on it, but with NWN 2 and KotOR II in development, I'm not sure they have the staffing to do it. The only other substantial CRPG developer with Black Isle/Dungeons & Dragons experience I can think of would be Troika. Since they worked with Atari on Temple of Elemental Evil, they just might be the best guess.[/QUOTE]

I don't think BioWare would get it no - much like your own speculation and Troika seems to be the imidiate best bet, with Obsidian (BioJr :D ) bussy with both SW:KotOR2 and NwN2, and Bethesda going for Elder Scroll IV and Fallout 3.

I don't know many other large developers withint he CRPG genre - but who knows. Maybe it could go to some upstart or something.

As for the storyline - I don't doubt that it would be a bhaalspawn spin-off. However - I see many potential pitfalls with almost every approch. Afterall the player have already determined the outcome of the Bhaalspawn line, and thus it leaves very little room for spin-offs.
The one storyline I could see - off the top of my head - would be to not play a bhaalspawn, but play somebody that tries to throw the bhaalspawn from ToB from his fathers throne (somehow).
However - the most "fun" way would be to try and gather a following and challenge his right as the Lord of Murder - but with the "carebear-ifying" of D&D I think that might not go well with WotC and Atari because it would be to "dark" a story.

I fear - as I fear Fallout 3 will be "Morrowind with Guns" - that a Baldur's Gate 3 would just try and recapitalize on the fame and following of the Baldur's Gate series.
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Post by keeB »

All I know, is that I want another RPG like this series. Completely open-ended, where you can choose which quests to do first, if at all, Romances, tons of Dialogue, Banter, the whole works that made BG2 what it is, and continues to be. That is absolutely crucial to me.
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Post by Thrain »

try Planescape:Torment or the Fallout series if you're that desperate to get more storyline-involved games.
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Post by Nightmare »

I'm personally hoping that nothing will come of this. Baldur's Gate is DONE. No more. Using the name to sell another product would be cheap, and ruinious to the series' name.

If the story mixes somewhat, like a plot that goes on during all the Bhaalspawn events, I can understand (and could be cool if pulled off right).

What's Troika's track record with games?
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Post by Xandax »

[QUOTE=Nightmare]<snip>
What's Troika's track record with games?[/QUOTE]

Well - Arcanum and Temple of Elemental Evil are two.
They are also developing Vampire: TM - Bloodlines.

It was formed by some of the developers from Fallout from Interplay (I think Interplay).
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Post by fable »

ToEE was actually done *for* Troika, rather than by them. That said, they approved the mess. I suspect, given its extraordinary amount of bugs when released, that Troika simply wanted to get it out the door.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury's out on Troika. They talk a good line, but their work has been variable. And as far as a BG3 is concerned, the only way I could see it continuing would be by following the adventures of one or more of the NPCs following the Usual-Nobody-You-Play-Who-Turns-Out-to-Be-a God, but not you, yourself. That's been finished, full dramatic, final resolution chords, in BG2/ToB.

But I guess we'll just have to see, won't we?
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Post by BuckGB »

Troika did all development on Temple of Elemental Evil, Atari simply published it. I don't believe any other studio had a hand in it. Granted, it wasn't as good as I had hoped it might be, but I personally thought that Arcanum was a fantastic open-ended RPG. Having seen Vampire: Bloodlines firsthand on a few occasions, I think their reputation will increase dramatically when it is released (barring another bug-filled release).
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Post by Xandax »

As I understood it - all hear-say and what not - Atari pushed for ToEE to be done, and thus there wasn't time/ressources to fix bugs.
This could just be a "ploy" however - to take some heat from Troika and place it on Atari which many seems to dislike anyways :)
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Post by fable »

Troika did all development on Temple of Elemental Evil, Atari simply published it.

I didn't think Atari had done anything more than that, but thanks for the headup on Troika's relationship with TOEE--I had heard long ago that they were only peripherally involved, and accepted that. :rolleyes:

Granted, it wasn't as good as I had hoped it might be, but I personally thought that Arcanum was a fantastic open-ended RPG.

After the Fallout games, I would have expected Arcanum at the very least to 1) possess a good interface, and 2) possess a decent follower combat AI. What surprised me was the truly awful quality of both. There were many good points to Arcanum, and I've been a supporter of the game, but these two points didn't win it any friends.

Having seen Vampire: Bloodlines firsthand on a few occasions, I think their reputation will increase dramatically when it is released (barring another bug-filled release).

I hope so, sincerely. ToEE was pretty and a good engine implementation, but if one's looking for reasonable interaction with NPCs or sensible quests, there's none of it, there.

That said, they approved the mess. I suspect, given its extraordinary amount of bugs when released, that Troika simply wanted to get it out the door.

For me, this is the heart of the problem. I can accept that a company makes design mistakes. I can accept the implementation of poor AI. I can even accept (with a looong stretch) that every NPC you encounter in a Troika game feels obliged to devulge their deepest secrets to a party of people they've never seen before, and asked for help on achieving goals they could probably have managed in one-tenth the time if they'd just asked around. Admittedly, accepting these things changes the "roleplaying" into "rollplaying," but if it's a dungeon crawl folks want, who am I to deny it to them?

But when a company releases arguably the buggiest game since Ultima 9 knowingly to a gaming public that it's convinced through PR is the biggest, brightest thing ever, they have created a major credibility problem for themselves, IMO. And when they do this just to get it out the door, they don't engender much sympathy. A few bugs are understandable. It's impossible to release a game of any decent size and scope these days in a pristine fashion. But when you issue incredibly buggy code in the hopes that you can sucker your intended audience into thinking they're getting a reasonably good playing experience of the deal--credibility is blown out of the water. It's just my POV, but I think Troika has a lot of ground to make up, here.
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Post by Xandax »

What about other non-usual cRPG developers. Could it be imagined that they would try and grap a hold of a BG3 licens.? Wouldn't want to see an EA BG3 :eek: :eek:

Also - I don't know anything about them - but what about Silver Style that are currently working on The Fall - Last Days of Gaia.
On the surface this game looks quite good and if they are successfull with it - it might be we have another cRPG developer on the market.

(Although - I still doubt the existiance of BG3 production - at least for a while.)
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Post by BuckGB »

[QUOTE=fable]...when a company releases arguably the buggiest game since Ultima 9 knowingly to a gaming public that it's convinced through PR is the biggest, brightest thing ever, they have created a major credibility problem for themselves, IMO. And when they do this just to get it out the door, they don't engender much sympathy. A few bugs are understandable. It's impossible to release a game of any decent size and scope these days in a pristine fashion. But when you issue incredibly buggy code in the hopes that you can sucker your intended audience into thinking they're getting a reasonably good playing experience of the deal--credibility is blown out of the water. It's just my POV, but I think Troika has a lot of ground to make up, here.[/QUOTE]
Well said. I totally agree that Troika has a lot of work to do in order to get themselves the CRPG developer reputation that they had while many of them were with Black Isle.

As far as other CRPG developers, Baldur's Gate III could certainly end up being developed by someone else. But if you take into consideration that the Baldur's Gate license has some of the most potential for success out of any CRPG franchise available at the current time, I'm betting Atari is going to go with a developer that has a good RPG track record and is composed of designers that are very familiar with the Dungeons & Dragons rules and Forgotten Realms setting. How many development studios still exist right now that can fit both of those criteria? Four, I believe: BioWare, Obsidian Entertainment, Troika Games, and Stormfront Studios.

Liquid Entertainment and Turbine are both working on other Dungeons & Dragons games, but they have no single player RPG track record to go by. Bethesda has proven that they can make a fantastic role-playing game, but they have absolutely no experience with the Dungeons & Dragons rules or FR setting (not that it would totally rule them out, though).

Hopefully, we should know the answer within a couple of weeks when the next issue of PC Gamer hits shelves.
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Post by araknid70 »

If anything, I still feel a real soft spot for Planescape Torment. Although it may not be possible, but I would like BG3 to be styled after PS:T; with lots of introspective dialogue and unique character development. Furthermore, one of the characters I'd like to see would be Irenicus. Although the brief history of Irenicus and Bodhi has been covered in SoA, his life between expulsion from Suldanesellar and the capture of the BG2 main char isn't covered, and also as to how he subjugated Spellhold, liased with the drow, and sent Suldan~ into chaos isn't covered as well. Might be interesting to play Irenicus as a main character.
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Post by Luis Antonio »

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]As far as other CRPG developers, Baldur's Gate III could certainly end up being developed by someone else. But if you take into consideration that the Baldur's Gate license has some of the most potential for success out of any CRPG franchise available at the current time, I'm betting Atari is going to go with a developer that has a good RPG track record and is composed of designers that are very familiar with the Dungeons & Dragons rules and Forgotten Realms setting.[/QUOTE]

Well, I may be vox clamantis in desertum (hehe) but I think that the fate of the Child of Bhaal is over. But the child has left many enemies and a grandson of Bhaal behind. IMO, the intended game line when BG1 was written was that the child will have the option to choose between god or human form and the better outcome, or the lawfull good outcome, will be becoming human. So, you may be a grand grand grand son of a deity and that makes you be chosen to some mission.

I'm sorry if you guys disagree with me, but as far as a decent and solid storyline is concerned, Atari games dont atract me much. They usually are nice, and have good gameplay, but the history... pfew. I'd prefer to see BGIII in the hands of those guys who left BIS.

And ToB, ah, ToB was cool but a poor excuse for the end of the child of Bhaal saga.
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Post by Xandax »

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]<snip>
Liquid Entertainment and Turbine are both working on other Dungeons & Dragons games, but they have no single player RPG track record to go by. Bethesda has proven that they can make a fantastic role-playing game, but they have absolutely no experience with the Dungeons & Dragons rules or FR setting (not that it would totally rule them out, though).

Hopefully, we should know the answer within a couple of weeks when the next issue of PC Gamer hits shelves.[/QUOTE]

I think Turbine is a little out of the question if BG3 is to be announced anytime soon. They have their hands full with D&D Online and will likely have for quite a while (and what I've seen of other MMOG companies, then they seem to keep rather close to the MMO-genre (with the exception of Blizzard)).
Liquid Entertainment I know nothing off.

But then again - I am not very well-wandered amongst the developers :D

As for Bethesda - I'd really hate seeing them get BG3 untill I know they can create a (with all due respect) more complex game then Elder Scrolls and how they handle the Fallout-licens.

But - I will look forward to the next issue of PC Gamer.
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Post by Gwalchmai »

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]I just don't see how a third installment could even bear the Baldur's Gate name without being involved with the Bhaalspawn storyline in some way.[/QUOTE]Seems to me that the story for a Baldur’s Gate III doesn’t necessarily have to involve the Bhaal-spawn storyline specifically. If the story involved the actual city of Baldur’s Gate again, it could lay claim to the title (and fan base that comes with it). As I recall, we last visited Baldur’s Gate to deal with an influx of doppelgangers (and Saravok) that had infiltrated the highest citizens in the city. By the time we left, several of the ruling council had been killed, and the police force and merchant class had been left in disarray. I could see a story that dealt with the aftermath of BG1 on the city itself, perhaps leading to the formation of a new government, taking over the merchants, or rising in the ranks of the protective force as goals for the PC (who is not related to Bhaal in any way!). Many unused characters from BG1 could be seen again, including Alora, Eldath, and Skye.
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Post by Ekental »

wait.... Black Isle was sort of shut down... I thought they announced that they cut BGIII... :( . So who will make it? So far I haven't really enjoyed the Action/Adventure BG: Dark Alliance things (God I hope it wont be like that)
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