Combat Master (HotU, SPOILERS, a bit long so beware)

[Opalescence]

I've played through this game numerous times, and I've always had one goal in mind, to create my own personal "combat master".
MINOR SPOILER ALERT





The idea was, to combine the power of a spellcaster with the ability to survive, say, the attack of the belbiath (sp?) in the null-magic zone under the Beholder Lair. In other words, I wanted somebody who was truly a master, who can survive virtually any situation and prevail. I wanted a perfect blend of caster and tank, and I worked very hard to get it. And even then I wasn't sure if I did.

In order for me to get such a character, I knew I had to sacrifice something. For one thing, social niceties went out the window. If you want a combat master, I suppose you'd just have to sacrifice pursuasion and the like. And, unless I planned to include Rogues or Bards in my plan (I didn't), I supposed thieving and hiding were out too.

With those thoughts set aside, I worked, and came up with the following possibilities, all of which I tried:

Paladin 2/Red Dragon Disciple 10/Sorcerer x
This first attempt tried to combine the spellcasting power of a Sorcerer, with the improved strength and constitution of a Red Dragon Disciple, and the enhanced saving throws of the paladin, not to mention the immunities (fear, disease, fire, paralysis, sleep). There were several issues with this one. Granted, when you got to lvl 40, you're incredible, but before then, you were rather weak. In order not to be stuck with 11 wisdom, I had to start out as a sorcerer. At lvl 2, I switched over to Paladin and stayed there for 2 levels. Then, I switched back to sorcerer until I could get RDD, and it was RDD until level 10, and then sorcerer from then on. I discovered that, until my sorcerer levels reached about 14-15, I was heavily reliant on my combat abilities. But, in order not to undermine my spellcasting, I couldn't wear armor or shields. Although I eventually got automatic quicken spell level III, it was a long way down the road. Too long, by my opinion.

Monk/Cleric
This was, by far, one of the strangest and yet most entertaining classes I've ever leveled. It was difficult to balance how I wanted this to go, because it's hard to decide whether you want more combat proficiency or better spellcasting. In the end, I found it best to lvl the monk until Knockdown and Improved Knockdown, then level cleric until you've got level 9 spells, then switch to monk until you hit 20, and then finish off cleric. The advantage of this build is that you're millitant enough to survive most non-magical battles (and your AC is high, because your wisdom should be at least 19 and your dex shouldn't be too low) and clerical spells are universally recognized to be quite awesome. Not to mention, you can take excellent domains like Animal and Magic (Unfortunatly, you have to sacrifice Cha for this build, and with it, any real effective turning, so Sun, Good, Evil, Destruction, and Plant domains are fairly useless). With those 2, you can cast some useful extra spells and your animal summoning is improved, quite useful things since you'll want some extra meat. By far, this combo was easier to level, though maybe not as powerful.

Fighter 4/Wizard 23/Arcane Archer x
With 23 levels in wizard (I found it really doesn't matter what you specialize in), You get a few lvl 9 spells to play with, and your Arcane Archer levels make your arrows hurt more than they probably would otherwise. But this turned out to be a major disappointment.

It turns out, if you want a hard-hitting caster, you should choose Sorcerer instead of Wizard. But if you choose sorcerer in this build, you've got to raise an otherwise rather useless Charisma instead of Intel (there's no Paladin levels to take advantage of the high Cha bonus, and no do NOT tell me to switch out the 4 fighter levels for Paladin levels, because they're there for a reason, namely, for Specialization). The very first place I headed to was the null-magic area. This character could hold out, but really, not as well as any of the two above. A very major disappointment, and hardly what I'd call a Combat Master.



There were a few other builds I tried, but they were mostly disappointments. Some of them showed potential, such as a Fighter 4/Weapon Master 7/Sorcerer x, which showed a real potential if I could only find a weapon that would compliment the build (probably some 2-hander), but I just couldn't make this build match the Sorcerer/RDD/Paladin. And now, after this huge, long-winded discussion, comes your part.

First, I would very much appreciate any comments or suggestions on how to improve any of the above builds. I'm still trying to perfect them, and so they're just rough sketches for now, and far from where I want them. Just keep in mind, though, that I'm looking for the "perfect" blend of casting and combat, so I'd appreciate it if no-one suggests things like, "Hey, man, why don't u jes make a lvl 40 barb. Like, that would be a real combat master!"

Second, feel more than free to post your own thoughts! I'd love to see builds that you feel might be a good candidate for the title of "Combat Master". Remember, though, that for me, I want a build that's not only powerful when it hits lvl 40, but is also (relatively) easy to level, in other words is not ridiculously weak to start (as in, can't defeat NWN original campaign, prologue, when difficulty has been set to easy), even if said build is able to kill dragons with 1 hit at lvl 40. Because, I'll actually try and play the game through with your build, so I'd appreciate ones that are actually doable.

[Volk]

Barbarian/Sorcerrer/RDD might work, but im speaking theoreticaly as i dont have Hotu or Sou, because of the barbarian rage bonuses combined with the RDD bonuses which would up combat stats and HP a fair bit at the cost of saving throws which are gained through the Paladin/Sorcerrer/RDD combo.

[Noober]

Paladin 2/Red Dragon Disciple 10/Sorcerer 28:
Take three pally levels for divine shield etc.
This build was once very popular online, especially those which included devastating crit.
Upto Level 9 spells (particularly buffs) combined with great saves, AB and AC from pally and auto-still + full plate made this a very powerful build. However it was dominated by more pally oriented builds (some of them taking only a single sorc level), which maxed STR and dev crit.

Monk/Cleric:
An interesting build, but will not compete in pvp since monks are generally weak in epic levels unless using the attack exploits. I would think that a build like Monk 6/Weapon Master 16/Cleric 18 would be a better build since it has an amazing 12 ATTACKS!! (more melee based as well)

Fighter 4/Wizard 23/Arcane Archer 13:
Not very much an archer, more a caster. People mainly use arcane archers because they have the highest attack bases in the game, and for that you will need to max AA (or at least relatively high), preferably dropping all wiz levels but one, and adding them to fighter and AA. The stat division in this build can also cause problems.

IMO the BEST melee build is: Bard 20/RDD 10/Palemaster 10.
Correctly built, has great AC (buffs+song+RDD+Pale bonuses), can max STR and therefore Dev Crit DC (try saving against a DC of 50 ), and is completely invulnerable to critical hits, and therefore Dev Crit. Immunity to Dev Crit is important seeing as almost all melee build revolve around it. Has all Bard spells and skills, as well as Curse Song.

[Xandax]

The "easiest" in terms of combat I've played through NwN/SoU and HotU with was my fighter/barbarian/Weapon master.

He was level 28 at the end of all 3 games (fighter/barbarian/weapon master 10/5/13).
He litterally destroyed any opponents in the game, and I had no problems at all beating down Mephis + Aribeth (she betrayed me).

The game was almost to easy with this character, and the character wasn't even min/maxed or anything else. (He had charisma and wisdom of 12, and dexterity and intelligence of 14)

[Opalescence]

Re: Noober

Monk/Cleric not viable? I had such high hopes for him. He seemed the only character I made that was original. I never saw Monk Clerics around before, I thought I had FINALLY come up with an original combat/caster combination that worked. *sigh*. As for your suggestion of weapon master, I guess then that he'd have to master Kamas. Ick. I never really found many good Kamas in my day, and virtually none had a good enchantment.

In addition, I don't understand why you'd make it a Monk 6/WM 16/Cleric 18, instead of a Monk 10/WM 7/Cleric 23. As I recall, Ki Critical comes at lvl 7, and that's the last special ability Weapon Masters recieve. Afterwards, I believe all you get out of more WM levels is a +1 bonus to attack and damage to your weapon of choice every 4 levels after 10, or something like that ... hardly worth the loss of spells from the cleric, if you ask me ... but maybe I'm wrong? It's just that, you're right, I shouldn't focus on spells to the degree that I neglect melee combat, but even if I didn't, do I gain enough from the 9 extra levels in Weapon Master to offset the loss of lvl 9 Clerical spells?

And, by the way, I'm not trying to make the best melee build, nor the best caster build. I'm trying to find the best way to combine the two, so that, no matter if I'm facing hordes of Duregar (sp?), or whether I'm facing a Dracolich, or whether I'm facing the Spider thing in the no-magic zone under the Beholder Lair, I can still prevail . Although, I'm seriously taking the Monk/Weapon Master/Cleric under consideration ... hmmmm ...

[Noober]

Cleric/Monk is of course viable, just perhaps not in the top tier of PVP.

The reason for the Weapon Master is that it is needed to exploit the bug in Monk AB, otherwise if you take out WM you will just get around 6 attacks. This type of build requires a specific order levelling in order to max attacks. 18 Cleric will still garner a few level 9 spells. Let me assure you that generally doubling or even tripling other melee builds attacks is well worth the WM levels.

The base structure needed for this build would be:
1 Monk Dodge, Mobility
2 Cleric Domains: Trickery, Travel
3 Cleric Weapon Focus: Kama
4 Cleric
5 Cleric
6 Cleric Expertise
7 Cleric
8 Cleric
9 Cleric Spring Attack
10 Cleric
11 Cleric
12 Cleric Whirlwind Attack
13 Weapon Master
14 Weapon Master
15 Weapon Master Weapon Finesse
16 Weapon Master
17 Monk
18 Weapon Master Extend Spell
19 Weapon Master
20 Weapon Master

I'm pretty sure that this will give you 10 attacks (add two-weapon fighting etc. later). So 7 WM levels will probably do (but I can't remember if you have to do something later). 12 is the most with you can get with the dual-kama monk exploit (needs to use Divine power with it, I believe). This build should also be possible exchanging WM for fighter.

[Yeltsu]

Don't know if this is spamming or not, but anyway:

I'm planning on making an Fighter\Dwarven Defender\Weapon Master for both offensive and defensive skills, but since I'm no powergamer, and have lost my manual I really don't know how to make him, what weapons to chose or anything like that.
Any help would be welcomed

[Xandax]

[QUOTE=Asriel]Don't know if this is spamming or not, but anyway:

I'm planning on making an Fighter\Dwarven Defender\Weapon Master for both offensive and defensive skills, but since I'm no powergamer, and have lost my manual I really don't know how to make him, what weapons to chose or anything like that.
Any help would be welcomed[/QUOTE]

I think it would be better to start a new topic for such a discussion

By the way - I think there should be an electronic version of the manual on the CDs also.

[koz-ivan]

[QUOTE=Opalescence]Re: Noober

Monk/Cleric not viable? I had such high hopes for him. He seemed the only character I made that was original. I never saw Monk Clerics around before, I thought I had FINALLY come up with an original combat/caster combination that worked. *sigh*. As for your suggestion of weapon master, I guess then that he'd have to master Kamas. Ick. I never really found many good Kamas in my day, and virtually none had a good enchantment.
[/QUOTE]

(minor spoilers)

i rather liked my monk/cleric, build ended up looking like...

ranger2 monk3 cleric 20+

if you are just playing the oc kama is almost all the weapon you need, spells like "darkfire" & "greater magic weapon" make even mundane kama's pretty decent. combine that w/ the smith in the drow city, and you are in really good shape.

robes of the dark moon don't hurt either...

in hindsight, a ftr 4 monk 3,4, or 5* cleric 20+

could of been a better build, for weapon spec + improved 2weapon fighting.

but really darkfire + many attacks + elemental damage kama's won most fights.

add to that the rest of a cleric's cool buffs, and the great synergy w/ a light fighter (or ranger) + monk + cleric.

* monk levels are really only to allow for flurry o' blows and tumble as an inclass skill, it's best to spread the levels out as much as possible and buy many ranks of tumble each time.

[Noober]

[QUOTE=koz-ivan](minor spoilers)

i rather liked my monk/cleric, build ended up looking like...

ranger2 monk3 cleric 20+

if you are just playing the oc kama is almost all the weapon you need, spells like "darkfire" & "greater magic weapon" make even mundane kama's pretty decent. combine that w/ the smith in the drow city, and you are in really good shape.

robes of the dark moon don't hurt either...

in hindsight, a ftr 4 monk 3,4, or 5* cleric 20+

could of been a better build, for weapon spec + improved 2weapon fighting.

but really darkfire + many attacks + elemental damage kama's won most fights.

add to that the rest of a cleric's cool buffs, and the great synergy w/ a light fighter (or ranger) + monk + cleric.

* monk levels are really only to allow for flurry o' blows and tumble as an inclass skill, it's best to spread the levels out as much as possible and buy many ranks of tumble each time.[/QUOTE]

If you wanna play online pvp and use monk, and wish to go mainly melee, you MUST expliot the attacks per round bugs, so take some fighter levels!