So, recently I finished the game (and watched every ending sequence), and I have some questions I'd like to be answerd .
I might have missed the answres, or didn't quite understand, or simply forgot that I saw it. So please dig up your brain-box and help me out:
1) TTO mentioned that Ignus was trying to take vangece on me, why? what did *I* do to him in the past?
2) Do you actualy get to find out your real name? or do you just "realize" you know it, and thats all? I don't recall the first incarnation mention it.
3) What was that/those terrible thing(s) that *I* did in my previous life, that led me to becoming immortal, in order to escape my fate? and what exactly was that fate?
4) Is it possible that TTO was more than just my mortallity? it just seems wierd that my mortallity has en entity.
5) In the end, after I merge with the TTO, I punish myself for that horrible crime I comitted (whatever that was), so after returning my party to Sigil, the (former) Nameless One wakes up somewhere in the lower planes (Baator?), in the middle of the blood war, grabs an Axe and charges. What is this punishment? am I supposed to fight in the blood war until it ends or until I die? or maybe I need to settle things down?
and what is that book (with the mark of torment) that lies on one of the spikes? my journal?
7)Both TNO, and TTO mentioned something about the pain they both cause while being apart. What damage exactly do they cause? is it the casting of shadows?
7) Am I gonna stay in the Blood War forever? coz' I'm supposed to be mortal again. right? is it possible that one day my debt shall be repaid and I could live agian?
8) How exactly did the first incarnation intended on dodging his destiny? was it simply by living long enough to do good deeds, or by simply escaping death forever?
Help me PLEASE!!
Thanks to anyone who is willing to answer.
A few importent questions regarding the end of the game...
I'm not an expert on the game itself or the Planescape universe, but I'll see if I can help you make sense of some of those issues.
1) Ignus was formerly the apprentice of TNO, who was apparently a very cruel master. For example, when Ignus wanted to learn to learn more about fire, TNO grabbed Ignus's hand and stuck it into a fireplace, explaining, "If you want to understand fire, you must be willing to let it burn you." Effective, perhaps, but TNO was needlessly cruel about it. Ignus threatens violence if TNO ever calls him "supplicant" again.
If Ignus is in the party right before TNO merges with TTO, Ignus apologizes for committing some sort of treachery against TTO. I'm not sure exactly what that's about, but clearly, there's some bad blood between them.
2) In the game, TNO can find out what his real name is, but the game doesn't actually tell you what it is. All it tells you is, "You finally know your real name," without telling you what it is. TNO's name is a tantalizing mystery, and it would be spoiled if you knew what it was. From what I've heard, the game designers never gave TNO a name, so even they don't know what it is, although some of the game designers referred to TNO as "Floyd", probably as a joke.
3) The game never tells you what crimes the Original Incarnation committed. Again, all the game tells you is, "All of your memories will eventually come back to you, but you'll have to sort them out later." Therefore, the players never find out why TNO deserved such a terrible fate.
One of the lecturers at the Sensate guildhall said that people who commit certain kinds of crimes will be punished in the afterlife by having to fight in the Blood War for all eternity. If you accept that at face value and consider the evidence, it seems pretty clear that TNO was condemned to fight in the Blood War when he died. He sought immortality not just to avoid his fate but to make amends for his previous crimes to redeem himself. However, due to the fact that TNO lost his memories when he died as well as the fact that most of his incarnations were unpleasant if not actually evil characters, TNO never managed to redeem himself. When he regains his mortality, "time and fate" come for him. I assume that he dies and that he has to fight in the Blood War for eternity. Fall-From-Grace promises to search for him, but he warns her that he won't be the same anymore and that it will be a long, long time before he escapes his fate, assuming that he ever will. I suppose he would have to become undead or become reincarnated somehow.
In any case, when TNO that you are familiar with (since you played him as your character) merges with his previous incarnartions and TTO, he changes into a new personality, and on top of that, you'll just have to accept the fact that you'll never learn anything about him that you haven't already learned. How long would it take to tell the life story of a man who is thousands of years old?
4) Yes, it is weird that TNO's mortality became a separate living entity, but that was part of Ravel's magic. Ravel took part of TNO's essence and encased it in a shell, but it was never truly separated from TNO; there always was a link between them. That's how TTO could learn from TNO's experiences, even though TNO forgot everything he ever learned whenever he died.
5) See my answer to Number 3. TNO does not inflict punishment on himself; when he regains his mortality, I assume that he dies (since he is mortal again and his time is up) and that he meets the fate that he had tried to avoid for so long.
I don't know what that book is. I'll have to take another look at it. I suspect that someone like Platter has already asked the game designers what it was, if it was not self-evident from the context.
6) TNO and TTO are separate due to Ravel's marvelous magic, but as even she explains, they don't belong apart, and their separation is painful to both of them. Ravel says that you must prepare yourself for death if you want to be complete, but since TNO forgets everything that his experience teaches him, he is merely a shell. I'm not sure exactly how TTO suffers from their separation, but avoiding fate is merely putting off the inevitable, and the longer you wait, the more difficult it is to face.
As for the Shadows, there's something very important that you need to understand. Ravel found a very clever way for TNO to avod death: whenever he is about to die, another person dies in his place. The people that die in his place become Shadows, and needless to say, they are very angry at TNO. Think of all of the times that TNO has died, then think about the harm that he has caused others. That's not the reason why TNO is condemned to a terrible afterlife (he earned that fate before he sought immortality), but that's why TNO talks about the harm that he has caused to others as well as the harm that he has caused to himself.
7) I don't see any reason to think that TNO will be able to return to the planes of the living. But knowing him, he might find a way.
8) The Original Incarnation wanted to be immortal so that he would have enough time to make amends for his crimes. Apparently, he thought that it would take a VERY long time. However, his plans were foiled when he lost his memories.
I hope this helps!
1) Ignus was formerly the apprentice of TNO, who was apparently a very cruel master. For example, when Ignus wanted to learn to learn more about fire, TNO grabbed Ignus's hand and stuck it into a fireplace, explaining, "If you want to understand fire, you must be willing to let it burn you." Effective, perhaps, but TNO was needlessly cruel about it. Ignus threatens violence if TNO ever calls him "supplicant" again.
If Ignus is in the party right before TNO merges with TTO, Ignus apologizes for committing some sort of treachery against TTO. I'm not sure exactly what that's about, but clearly, there's some bad blood between them.
2) In the game, TNO can find out what his real name is, but the game doesn't actually tell you what it is. All it tells you is, "You finally know your real name," without telling you what it is. TNO's name is a tantalizing mystery, and it would be spoiled if you knew what it was. From what I've heard, the game designers never gave TNO a name, so even they don't know what it is, although some of the game designers referred to TNO as "Floyd", probably as a joke.
3) The game never tells you what crimes the Original Incarnation committed. Again, all the game tells you is, "All of your memories will eventually come back to you, but you'll have to sort them out later." Therefore, the players never find out why TNO deserved such a terrible fate.
One of the lecturers at the Sensate guildhall said that people who commit certain kinds of crimes will be punished in the afterlife by having to fight in the Blood War for all eternity. If you accept that at face value and consider the evidence, it seems pretty clear that TNO was condemned to fight in the Blood War when he died. He sought immortality not just to avoid his fate but to make amends for his previous crimes to redeem himself. However, due to the fact that TNO lost his memories when he died as well as the fact that most of his incarnations were unpleasant if not actually evil characters, TNO never managed to redeem himself. When he regains his mortality, "time and fate" come for him. I assume that he dies and that he has to fight in the Blood War for eternity. Fall-From-Grace promises to search for him, but he warns her that he won't be the same anymore and that it will be a long, long time before he escapes his fate, assuming that he ever will. I suppose he would have to become undead or become reincarnated somehow.
In any case, when TNO that you are familiar with (since you played him as your character) merges with his previous incarnartions and TTO, he changes into a new personality, and on top of that, you'll just have to accept the fact that you'll never learn anything about him that you haven't already learned. How long would it take to tell the life story of a man who is thousands of years old?
4) Yes, it is weird that TNO's mortality became a separate living entity, but that was part of Ravel's magic. Ravel took part of TNO's essence and encased it in a shell, but it was never truly separated from TNO; there always was a link between them. That's how TTO could learn from TNO's experiences, even though TNO forgot everything he ever learned whenever he died.
5) See my answer to Number 3. TNO does not inflict punishment on himself; when he regains his mortality, I assume that he dies (since he is mortal again and his time is up) and that he meets the fate that he had tried to avoid for so long.
I don't know what that book is. I'll have to take another look at it. I suspect that someone like Platter has already asked the game designers what it was, if it was not self-evident from the context.
6) TNO and TTO are separate due to Ravel's marvelous magic, but as even she explains, they don't belong apart, and their separation is painful to both of them. Ravel says that you must prepare yourself for death if you want to be complete, but since TNO forgets everything that his experience teaches him, he is merely a shell. I'm not sure exactly how TTO suffers from their separation, but avoiding fate is merely putting off the inevitable, and the longer you wait, the more difficult it is to face.
As for the Shadows, there's something very important that you need to understand. Ravel found a very clever way for TNO to avod death: whenever he is about to die, another person dies in his place. The people that die in his place become Shadows, and needless to say, they are very angry at TNO. Think of all of the times that TNO has died, then think about the harm that he has caused others. That's not the reason why TNO is condemned to a terrible afterlife (he earned that fate before he sought immortality), but that's why TNO talks about the harm that he has caused to others as well as the harm that he has caused to himself.
7) I don't see any reason to think that TNO will be able to return to the planes of the living. But knowing him, he might find a way.
8) The Original Incarnation wanted to be immortal so that he would have enough time to make amends for his crimes. Apparently, he thought that it would take a VERY long time. However, his plans were foiled when he lost his memories.
I hope this helps!
Thanks alot. You surley cleared up some of the rather vauge topics. I knew about the casting of shadows and the link between TTO and TNO, but you still helpped much. Thx
I hope Platter could answer the question about the book. He does seem so PS:T all-knowing =). I Have a suspicion that the book is the journal (the last one) TNO left behind before joining the battle, although you don't actualy see him place it.
I hope Platter could answer the question about the book. He does seem so PS:T all-knowing =). I Have a suspicion that the book is the journal (the last one) TNO left behind before joining the battle, although you don't actualy see him place it.
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It's been a while since I've played, but isn't there some mention made by the NO towards the end of going to the wars to be redeemed? I have a sense from something in the dialog that his sentence wasn't unlimited.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
There is a conversation you can have with TTO where TNO figures out that, just as TNO's mind becomes weaker every time TNO dies, TTO's body becomes weaker and eventially he would waste away.Originally posted by VonDondu
I'm not sure exactly how TTO suffers from their separation
I just assumed it was TNO's journal. Here is a picture of it;Originally posted by VonDondu
I don't know what that book is. I'll have to take another look at it. I suspect that someone like Platter has already asked the game designers what it was, if it was not self-evident from the context.
http://platter.jink.org/images/finale2.jpg
