Under sigil, larva worms??

[esox]

Evenin all,

Newbie ere....just got to under sigil with all me followers and WACK.....all dead. How do ya kill them worms??

Cheers Esox

[Robnark]

level up. seriously. undersigil is still bloody dangerous even when you're nearing the end of the game. the only reasons to be there are the exp and the very tasty loot that the enemies occasionally drop. it's just not very easy.

[VonDondu]

Killing larva worms is an easy way to gain lots of experience, once you get the hang of it. Personally, I relied on stealth, backstabbing, and cheesy tactics to make the kills without really endangering my party. Needless to say, you don't want to fight a group of six larva worms in a head-to-head fight or your party will be slaughtered.

Annah can do most of the work all by herself even if she's only 5th Level. She'll get a lot better at it as she advances. Give her the best equipment you can to make her more effective instead of giving all of it to the Nameless One; she can really shine in combat if you let her. If the Nameless One is a Thief, he can join her. Keep the rest of your party members behind a closed door next to the stairs. They'll be out of harm's way, and if Annah ever gets in trouble, you can have one of the others go up the stairs, which will pull your entire party out of the fray. I know that's cheesy, but that's how the game works. If the Nameless One gets badly injured, just let him be killed. That will take you to the exit and restore all of his hit points.

The trick is to have Annah (and the Nameless One if he's a Thief) hide in shadows and sneak up behind a worm and backstab it. After you attack, run around a corner where the worms can't see you and hide in shadows again. If the worms follow you, that's great, because they'll become separated and therefore easier to deal with one at a time. Just keep backstabbing, running, etc. until they are all dead. Then go back up to the Clerk's Ward and come back to Under Sigil to reset the dungeon and get a fresh crop of worms. Repeat as often as you like.

I try to avoid the Trelons. They drop a lot of rings and bracelets when they die, but they're not worth as much experience as the Larva Worms and I never worry much about cash anyway because I steal most of the things I need from the shops. (I reload when I get caught, which is cheesy, but it works.) The thing to remember about the shops is that if you try to sell an item that is already in stock, you'll only get a quarter as much for it as you would if the store had no such items. To maximize my income, I put 20 identical items in one character's inventory before I sell any such items to a store that doesn't already have such an item in stock. For example, if I have 20 silver bracelets, I take them to a store that doesn't have any silver bracelets, and I let one party member carry all 20 of them. After the first sale, and other silver bracelets I want to sell will only bring one quarter of the original price. The merchants in the Lower Ward tend to have most of the bracelets and rings in stock already, so I usually take my merchandise to other merchants, such as those in the Hive or the one in the Trash Warrens. If you do decide to kill lots of Trelons, horde the rings and bracelets until you have at least 20 of each of them before you take them to a store. I used the shelves on the walls of Under Sigil to store them and separate them.

Have fun!

[esox]

Thanks for the info....ere we go.

[Objulen]

You can also use Cloud Kill. It is also very good against various assorted Shadows.

[Gore Bishop]

Undersigil is fun!

Von Dondu, you've made my eyes slip out of my sockets! Wow, did you really strive so much to get those larvals killed? I dunno how much time it takes, but I prefer a straight go-kill-be-killed-slay-again method. I just go to Undersigil, then lure the larvals to come as close to the entrance as they can. So, most of my time is taken by teasing those creatures and then going towards the entrance - of course they're following. Then when we're by the entrance, I start lashing out with my weapons, I get killed after a couple of seconds, but when I come again, they're still waiting for me just in the spot im entering. So I have them still within about 1 meter and I don't hafta run search for them. Having killed those (usually 2-4 larvals that are persistent enough to follow me to the entrance) i get another worms to do the same as their dead buddies. It works, it's simple, and I guess it's more effective than involving Annah in battle (which she's sure to lost, mostly). At least I think so...
then you stay in undersigil for years and go to ravel when you advance up to 999 HP (my latest record).
Probably most of you won't show so much perseverance (or - lack of other things to do), as it's useless (with those cheats available), but anyway it's something you can tell your grandchildren in a couple of years (decades) . Ahoy

P.S. (and yeah, Trelons aren't the best prey you can think of, and they're so infuriating.....)

PS.2 (if you're a mage, Cloudkill's really what you need. It instantly kills the larvals, you don't need any 'blablabla stroms' etc. And the swarm curse is sure to kill trelons - it's a great satisfaction to watch 10 trelons killed by one swarm. Kicks....)

[VonDondu]

I don't remember for certain, but I think when I was playing, the dungeon was always reset if the Nameless One got killed and ended up (alive again) at the entrance to Under Sigil. I think that's the main reason why I didn't want my party members to take a lot of damage. I also didn't want to be bothered with having to heal anyone besides the Nameless One. When Annah did her backstabbing and running, she hardly took any damage at all. Once I got into the swing of it, the procedure seemed fairly efficient, at least to me, and I felt that it was less trouble than healing (or dying) and resting over and over again. Furhermore, playing intensively with Annah really helped me to bond with her (she was the Nameless One's primary partner and bodyguard), and I really liked that.

When I played Torment for the second time, I did some "meta-gaming" (basing my strategies on my own knowledge of the game instead of on the knowledge you could reasonably expect a character in the game to have). So I used a strategy that made levelling up by killing larva worms a lot easier. Here's what I did. Right before I acquired Annah, I left Dak'kon outside the Nameless One's tomb. (All party members are dismissed when the Nameless One goes inside.) I took Morte and Annah to the Lower Ward as soon as I could, where Morte gets kidnapped. Everyone was about 4th or 5th Level at that time. After acquiring a really good weapon for Annah (along with the best tattoos), I headed to Under Sigil as soon as I could with just Annah and the Nameless One in my party. When Annah was 5th Level, it took two or three backstabs to kill a worm, but I felt like she and the Nameless One were levelling up fairly quickly since there were only two of them in the party. Keep in mind that I was taking my time, so I was also pretty patient about the whole thing. For 600,000 experience points, we're only talking about 100 worms, you know. I also ran around town once in a while (selling items, shoplifting, meeting people in the Brothel, visiting the Sensatoriums, buying the Modrom Cube, looking for Morte, etc.) and that helped to break up the monotony.

By the time Annah was 10th or 11th Level, she was killing most larva worms in one or two hits, and the Nameless One was running in to make a lot of the kills, which saved some time. So at that point, I brought in the rest of the party (Morte, Dak'kon, Fall-From-Grace, and Nordom) and let them level up. It wasn't long before the whole group was involved in the fighting, and they were killing groups of six worms pretty fast, especially after I equipped Nordom with the Lens of Seeing Double. The worms turned yellow and ran when they saw us coming.

In my opinion, the only problem with Cloudkill (which is an awesome spell) is that a Mage has to be pretty high in level to cast it in the first place and then cast it frequently without resting all of the time. By the time my party was about 13th Level, I didn't see any point in waiting to leave Sigil for further adventures. However, when I returned to Sigil, I did go back to Under Sigil, not to kill worms, but to kill the bigger monsters that have the really cool items (if you're lucky). The experience was nice, but what I really wanted was an Aegis of Torment for every member of the party, "just 'cuz".

[Gore Bishop]

What a strategy!

Yeah, I share your opinion about Aegis of Torment - besides, before you really collect 6 of those (for each member in your party [if you don't count the 2 you can't take with you]), you usually have to kill lots of those glabezu monsters (and get riled every time they have cash on them, not items), and they sometimes do have other items (ring of zero, 'heaven &...' [something like that, I think it's a club, I don't remember]).
I htink you just chose a 'collective' way of playing. I normally use much different methods. I do this straight fighting with larvals until I level up to such an amout of HP that I can go down with my companions, just let them wait by the entrance and myself go kill the worms. I know it's cynical meta-gaming, but if you have the knowledge of a which-time-do-I-play-it gamer, you on't bother to introduce measures you would normally do with a logic of a game character, yes (but it's charming, isn't it? playing for the first time, when I really thought each death worsens my state and erases part of my memories... I was quite let down when my friends told me that it was just... em.... useless to get addicted to healing clots, if I could die, restore my HP and lose no memories at all....)
Anyway, could you tell me how much time did it usually take you to kill one larval? Just curiosity.
(oh, by the way, in Poland we had an old (communist tradition) holiday: Women' Day! If you're of sex your pic presents, best polish communist wishes for you (take it with some distance, SVP ). Ahoy!

[VonDondu]

To answer your question, my avatar does reflect my own gender. Thank you for your good Polish communist wishes. Somebody once suggested that I should use a female avatar so that people would stop mistaking me for a man. I guess it helps, but since a lot of men use female avatars, I suppose there is still some room for uncertainty.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "collective" way of playing, but I readily admit that I was meta-gaming when I used the strategies I described above.

I really couldn't tell you how long it took to kill a larva worm by using hit-and-run attacks. Sneaking around and getting in the right position for a backstab does take some time. To be honest, I wasn't keeping track of time when I was playing. At low levels, killing larva worms was not very fast, but my characters did level up quickly, and they got better and better at killing larva worms. Eventually, I had little to fear if I let my entire party fight a group of worms, and I made the kills (relatively) quickly.

I suppose I could have let the Nameless One do all of the killing to keep my other party members from getting injured, but he always died so fast, the extra time it took for him to come back to life and descend the stairs canceled out any advantages, in my opinion.

[Gore Bishop]

I know the subject of combating larvals in Undersigil is not the most fascinating one, but i'm accustomed to writing replies. Anyway, if your method is more efficient than going down

and being killed, I guess it's worth trying (even not knowing how long it takes) - maybe it'll change my life forever. There's only one drawback: I don't want to be a thief as NO, and

Annah... I remember even when she was fairly well-equipped, it wasn't very hard to kill her. Shame in PS:T you dont have an option to gain more exp with the NPC you're playing with

particularly - e.g. have Annah get more exp when it's she who kills those worms. Then it'd be a real motivation to put her in the middle of 10 larvals .

I suppose I could have let the Nameless One do all of the killing to keep my other party members from getting injured, but he always died so fast, the extra time it took for him to come

- not really very long. If the larvals followed you to the entrance, you're in quite comfortable position. Dying, waking up and descending into Undersigil doesn't take more than 10 sec

(real-time, not Sigil time ), maybe even less, and if the worms are waiting for you by the doors (and they are if you lured them before), you don't hafta travel far to get them hit (and

ultimately: killed, after a few more raids down ). O.K., I won't be so fanatic about it, everyone has their own ways, I'll probably try yours in the near future.

I'm happy I guessed your gender correctly ) ), if what you're saying is real (I dont have so much experience), you were 95% sure to be a man! Hmmm, do men really like to get female

on the net? We have a campaign in poland against pedophilia [spelled right?], there's a TV spot: lil girl chatting with someone who descirbes himself as "Michael, 12" and then we see

him chatting with her. He's adult, extremely fat and dirty (uhm). I could imagine the same kinda thing about men using female avatars . (O.K., to less sleep recently to think within
terms of sensibility).
Ahoj,
GBA

[salvisberg]

Here's my strategy, which works well for Larval Worms as well as Trelons: line up the party in a place with enough space, send Morte to taunt one of the creatures, and then run and hide behind the party. While the Litany of Curses is in effect, the creature will go for Morte (only!) and the others can keep beating on it without getting attacked. As long as you keep Morte out of reach, no one gets hurt at all!

Hans

[Platter]

Re: What a strategy!

Originally posted by Gore Bishop
you usually have to kill lots of those glabezu monsters (and get riled every time they have cash on them, not items), and they sometimes do have other items (ring of zero, 'heaven &...' [something like that, I think it's a club, I don't remember]).

http://platter.jink.org/glab.htm

Originally posted by VonDondu
I don't remember for certain, but I think when I was playing, the dungeon was always reset if the Nameless One got killed and ended up (alive again) at the entrance to Under Sigil.

The monsters are reset anytime you exit/enter UnderSigil (except the ones that happen to be within a certain range of you when you go back down, so you don't see the old ones disappearing).

[Gore Bishop]

The monsters are reset anytime you exit/enter UnderSigil (except the ones that happen to be within a certain range of you when you go back down, so you don't see the old ones disappearing).

Is it so? Undersigil takes about half (or maybe even more) of my playing PS:T time.... And I must say unluckily lots of monsters aren't reset.... The range must be quite large, then, but actually sometimes the monsters vanish, sometimes not (awfully painful when you see 15 trelons in one spot - 'accrued' amount since the last time you fought there [and not necessarily died in that spot or within a close range]). Of course it's much better when there are only larvals left .
Anyway, those confounded creatures get lost when you e.g. go to some other location, or have a nap.

(who doesn't get furious when 14 trelons close in on him... and the speed of the game makes it impossible to enjoy it?)

[fable]

Is it so? Undersigil takes about half (or maybe even more) of my playing PS:T time.... And I must say unluckily lots of monsters aren't reset....

You need to cover the entire area. There are 2-3 groups of specific monsters who will randomly appear anytime you enter. Tons of experience to be made, there, especially if you're in mage mode and can cloud the worms. Not much treasure, but hey, who cares?

[Gore Bishop]

Hey. yeah - true about the cloudkill. It's much nicer to kill 6 larvals in 10 seconds with one spell than to waste time on slaying each one with e.g. axe. Though I must admit trelons often ecape death from this spell . yet for them there's always curse of swarm - this single curse kills them, when you are quite an experienced mage . (and who isn't. with 300 hp, or, better, with 600 hp, or better, with 1000 hp ).
When the number of larvals is 4, and you don't wanna use 'cloudkill', force missiles also make a good weapon.

[Platter]

Originally posted by Gore Bishop
[and not necessarily died in that spot or within a close range]

I said the ones that don't disappear are the ones within a certain range of you when you re-enter UnderSigil, not the ones that were within a certain range of you when you last died down there.

That's the way it's supposed to work. It's possible it doesn't always.

[Gore Bishop]

Your explanation was what I'd believed the whole idea of Undersigil was. But there were too many exceptions, so I greeted warmly the idea of 'certain range around you' to which I myself added 'when you die'. Anyway, those creatures keep staying in Undersigil when I die - esp. trelons by those areas with shelves (or whatever it is, those cupboard-like thingies)....
Anyway, it's not a matter of such a great importance to be discussed over and over again, I suppose . I guess I don't have another option but to face the trelons........ . Ahoy

[Platter]

The shelves right by the entrance?

[Gore Bishop]

Depends what entrance you mean.... I always enter from the northern side, but if you mean the eastern, then we're thinking about the same shelves. It's quite far from the entrance I use (and happens sometimes, that also in the location above this one, there are also loads of monsters which survive my resetting Undersigil). Yet, hmmm, that's right - it's just by the other entrance, anyway, and 'entrance' is 'entrance', no matter which one I use.....
so maybe it don't matter which entrance i use? That would be a shame..........

[Platter]

Originally posted by Gore Bishop
I always enter from the northern side

That wouldn't be the reason, then.