Basic question about dual-classing

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:27 pm

I want to start out a sorc, and give them a single paladin level at some point. Now, I haven't played NWN since it first appeared, so please bear with me if my questions are elementary, but...can I opt away from being a sorc for a single level in another profession, and then back, in NWN? Assuming I can, does my character have to be human to accomplish this? And what would be the best point as a sorc to grab that level of paladinship? Thanks.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:05 pm

ok, first off.. it is perfectly fine to take up another class, whatever your race, at any point in time that your character levels up. to make things simple, i think i'll define two key phrases:
#1. character level:- being the level your character is, and
#2. class level:- being the number of levels of each class that your character has. i hope this brief definition is clear enough.

now, a character can take a level in another class whenever s/he levels up and there is practically no restrictions what-so-ever as to what classes s/he cannot take. this is called multiclassing in NWN. practically no restrictions as you must still meet the class requirements to be eligible (eg. you must be lawful good to be a paladin, even if you have some other class). this essentially means that if your sorceror is lawful good, taking a paladin class is an availalble optiona at any time.

any race would be ok to multiclass like this, but it would be advisable as consider xp (experience point) penalties. xp penalties are incurred only if you have more than one level of disparity between two non-favoured classes. what this means is that say you're an elf whose favoured class is a wizard.

u will take xp penalties if:
- you are sorceror(3)/paladin(1) -> notice that there is more than one level of difference between the two classes.

you'd not gain xp penaties if:
- you are wizard(3)/paladin(1) -> the wizard class does not count in detemining xp penaties
- you are wizard(2)/paladin(1)
- you are sorceror(2)/paladin(1) -> notice that there is only a 1 level difference between class levels
- you are wizard(3)/paladin(2) - > same here

and as a personal opinion:
it's perfectly ok to take a paladin level as a sorceror, but why do u want to? the two classes have next to nothing in common, nor do they fit well into a single character. the paladin, being a warrior, relies on heavy armor, which the sorceror should avoid... or risk spell failure chances.

what are u aiming for with a paladin? the lay on hands ability? if u have just 1 level of paladin, its not worth anything. the divine grace ability? a small advantage in view of another sorceror class (which equals more spells..)

if u're really looking for a warrior/spellcaster combination, may i suggest u take a sorceror/monk instead? personally, as a new player, i'd advise taking a fighter as NWN is rather combat oriented (simply to familiarise yourself) or take a warrior henchman. tip: you can take the pixie (or fairy whatever) familiar so u have a pretty good rogue alongisde u too... that would make a rather complete party.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:17 pm

@Shift, thanks very much for your information. If I understand you correctly, then, the 2E restriction that prevents a dual-classed character from returning to their first class-of-choice is not in place in NWN. That's what I needed to know.

it's perfectly ok to take a paladin level as a sorceror, but why do u want to? the two classes have next to nothing in common, nor do they fit well into a single character. the paladin, being a warrior, relies on heavy armor, which the sorceror should avoid... or risk spell failure chances.

Resistance saves on roll. Paladin saves, if I recall--and it's been quite some time since I played the original NWN--are based on charisma. Sorcs thrive on charisma; hence, a sorc with one level as a paladin gains a range of resistances. Am I wrong in this? And don't humans forego any penalty for the first dual class? So I could conceivably have a high level human sorc with one paladin level, and not sustain a penalty. I think.

I wouldn't be interested in playing a fighter, thanks. As I stated in my first post, I did play the original NWN, and found it extremely boring. I'm only returning to the game at this point because of the latest Bioware releases, which finally put roleplaying and creativity into the game, and some of the fine player mods out there. So I'm fully up on the interface and general gameplay from that perspective.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:33 am

Paladins do gain a bonus to their save throws the size of their charisma bonus.

And humans have all classes as favoured class, so no XP-penalty there either, no.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:09 am

Thanks, @Xan. Thought so, but I wasn't sure.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:28 am

Originally posted by fable
Thanks, @Xan. Thought so, but I wasn't sure.

It is the Divine Grace feat. Mentioned in the manual

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:03 am

Originally posted by Xandax
It is the Divine Grace feat. Mentioned in the manual

Which, of course, I've memorized, cover-to-cover. Despite having not played the game in more than a year. Despite never playing a paladin. Oh, yeah.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:10 am

Originally posted by fable
Which, of course, I've memorized, cover-to-cover. Despite having not played the game in more than a year. Despite never playing a paladin. Oh, yeah.

You think I have the manual memorized - indeed not, I just read it to look stuff up

(Oh that - and just played a pally through NwN+SoU)

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:12 am

Originally posted by Xandax
You think I have the manual memorized - indeed not, I just read it to look stuff up

(Oh that - and just played a pally through NwN+SoU)

Ahem, yes--just that.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:04 pm

well, yeah, so my guess was right.. it was for the divine grace "special feat".. hm... that would be cool.. it will make your char near invincible with will saves and pretty darn good with other saves...

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:27 pm

Yes, but you replied, above:

a small advantage in view of another sorceror class (which equals more spells..)

Divine Grace a small advantage, for a sorc with an 18 CHA? I must beg to differ.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:11 pm

sorry, no. it is not a small advantage. esp when your CHA begins to pass 20. i was mistaken that it uses WIS instead of CHA when i wrote that, being that the paladin draws his spell fom WIS.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:22 pm

Agreed.

So does anybody have a suggestion of when I should have my sorc make have her mid-life crisis? 10th level? 20th? What's a good time for her to do her single paladin level fling?

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:26 pm

why not asap? or even start out as a paladin then go sorceror all the way from there, in fact?

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:41 pm

Why don't we see if people who have tried this combo can answer your question and mine?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:53 am

The timing for multiclassing is really very subjective.

If I were to make such a combo (sorcerer with 1 level of paladin) I would take the paladin level first, no doubt, then pump the skill points into persuade and save the rest for the next levels, for when you go sorcerer.

When you start leveling and playing with a spellcaster, he is rather weak as you proberly know. The first level of paladin will help out there because you can run around using ranged weapons more easily with the "to hit" from your paladin.

Otherwise, then there are little in ways for multiclassing when you feel like it - but it might be worth it to think about skillpoints.
If you take your one level as paladin (with the class skill of Persuade) at, say level 7. Then don't take any ranks in persuade for the first 6 levels, and then at level 7 you can pump 10 ranks into persuade for the cost of 1 skill point per rank. Much cheaper then leveling a cross-class skill

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:57 am

Oh, very good advice. So I could just save up skill points as a sorc, then use 'em as a paladin on Persuade, which I was definitely going to get. (Makes sense, since it's CHA-based.) That would seem to suggest waiting a few levels before going Pally does make good sense. Thanks.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:47 am

<nods in understanding> thank you!

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:02 am

Is there any reason for a sorc to have a 10 WIS, or will 8 serve? No spell use from it, obviously, but there may be subtler effects.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:14 am

There are moments in the game when you will use Wisdom for solving things, but most can be handled by keeping some potions that will increase wisdom (or handled in other manners).

Other then the will save throw - there are little (non-roleplaying) argument for wisdom for non-divine spellcaster types.