Have you ever changed NPCs into different class/kit?

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:38 am

I like interaction between NPCs. At the same time, I want to use different mixture of kits/classes in my xxth try (I don't mean X rated try. I just can't remember how many times I *created* a party

).

My only solution to fulfil my wish is to change NPCs class/kit using ShadowKeeper. For example, I turned Imoen into thief/cleric, reduced her intelligence and added them to wisdom, reduced her HP, and changed her weapon proficiencies. Okay, it won't be perfect and some conversations will not match (ie. she will still be an archmage), but I don't care that too much.

Of course, it would be far easier to create whole 6 characters for *perfect* party, but that would be rather quiet, boring party to travel such a long way. I keep their total ability scores to avoid making them too powerful (again, it's easier to give them all 18 but that's not fair and boring).

I wonder if there are anyone else tried similar?

Perroxx · Post by **Perroxx** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:16 am

I used to change alot of things in my party... both classes, races and some abilitys (sp?) this way I can use the NPC's I like, but let them have different powers every time...

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:21 am

I havent changed stats/class.
Only once i changed mazzy's proficiencies to another weapon.
(usually the shortswords/bows go to my thiefes)

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:03 am

The same author of the expanded Thief Stronghold has in his page a file with modifications in some NPCs. There you will find a Cavalier Anomen, a Wizard Slayer Valygar or a Swashbuckler Imoen, among many other versions of these and other NPCs. All characters are level 1 with enough XP to advance them to the suitable levels when you meet them, so you can level up according to your preferences (exceptionally useful with the sorcerer version of Imoen). The dialogues will all play correctly.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:35 am

I once changed Jaheira to an Avenger. I think it mucked up the romance.
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I also changed Sarevok to a Sorceror because I had enough fighters in my party. But he never changed his alignment, even though I didn't make him swear the oath.

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:48 pm

I change them all the time. It is the best way to try out various kits & still enjoy the interactions, romance, & extra quests.

A Bard is pretty much essential in my parties so I change Jaheira (a harper) or Imoen (NG theif/mage) into one (I have no use for Haer'Daelis).

A couple of tips.
1) In SK watch the 2nd last tab (I don't remember what it was called.) Some kits, like the Stalker, have abilities, like an extra backstab. If you don't delete these, they can cause problems. For example, if you turn Valygar, a Stalker, into a theif of any kind, he will end up with extra backstab multipliers. Another one to watch out for is Mazzy's extra abilities. If you turn her into a Paladin, she can end up with two Lay-on-Hands.

2) The best way to redo a character is to put them back to level 0. Give the character 1 hit-point and the starting weapon proficiences. Most (not all) abilities that don't change by the level will then be added when you level up. For example the Barbarian immunity to backstab and extra 2 movement will be added to the character. The only ability I have found that isn't added this way is the Skald's +1hit/dam. You can create a skald for yourself and copy the lines from that save to the character you want.

3) Beware of things that don't work properly, but some can be used to your advantage. If you give a human character more than one class & set both to level 0, they will then level up as multi-class, not dual. I sometimes change Yoshi into a Fighter/Theif.

Well, that's my 2 cents. Enjoy.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:41 am

aeerie...conjuror cleric kensai...(yes, this is possible, and no, she is not a fighter cleric mage....)
jae...(please don't tell me this is impossible, I've done it)
totemic druid kensai/ shapeshifter kensai
solafein, conjuror kensai
minsc...undead hunter kensai, this was a mistake, he did like 50 points of damage per hit...

immy, wildmage thief

you can stretch the boundries of the game just using shadow keeper...

my pc is just too obscene...

conjuror kensai cleric sorceror...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:23 am

I never bother, but I did for Imoen.
I changed her once and for all (modified all of her CRE files, including the one for ToB summoning), so in my game now she's different.

I turned her in a Swashbuckler/Mage (more stylish and fitting, as she has no reason for knowing how to backstab), placed a correct (and slightly reorganized) amount of skill points, etc.

I think now it's fine, logical and balanced

mjcw · Post by **mjcw** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:17 am

Im thinking of changing Jaheria into a bard, and grabbing anomen for my cleric although his relation with Keldorn isnt tops!

So with SK i would have:
Me as a monk,
Yoshimo as a thief
Aerie...mage/cleric
Jaheria as a bard
Keldorn as my knight in shining armour
Anomen as my fighter/cleric and undead killer!

UncleScratchy · Post by **UncleScratchy** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:14 am

Yes, I sometimes change the NPC characters. In my last game I wanted to keep most of my BG1 party so I wrote down all their final BG1 save stats and recreated them in BG2. The hardest part was remaking Immy into a pure thief at the level she was in BG1 and then dualing her back to mage (while still in Irenicus' dungeon). Though this worked fine, she reverts back to her old self once you rescue her from the Asylum and you have to make her all over again. In that same game I cloned Yeslick and Kagain into the party with their BG1 stats, portraits and voice sets. Made them in multiplayer mode as close as I could get, saved the file over to single player and then used SK to tweak them to the exact BG1 stats. This way I can play with 3-5 custom characters leaving one or two party slots open for the various NPCs and their quests.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:22 am

Originally posted by Leonardo
The same author of the expanded Thief Stronghold has in his page a file with modifications in some NPCs. There you will find a Cavalier Anomen, a Wizard Slayer Valygar or a Swashbuckler Imoen, among many other versions of these and other NPCs. All characters are level 1 with enough XP to advance them to the suitable levels when you meet them, so you can level up according to your preferences (exceptionally useful with the sorcerer version of Imoen). The dialogues will all play correctly.

That mod looks interesting, especially Jaheira being Ranger/Cleric.

I once changed Valygar dualed to Cleric, though it wasted his own sword. I just prefer Valygar to Jaheira personality wise, that's all.

There are a few things which aren't covered and I want (and that matters most!

). For example, I want fighter dual to druid, instead of multi class. I tried it on Jaheira, but I couldn't make her dual class, even though I changed her into human, etc. I like using druid, but a few levels of fighter class gives them more choice in armours and better weapon proficiencies. Just like a few levels of thief or fighter gives mages more choice in weapon.

I also want fighter/thief multi class. I can make PC with it, but I don't like thief stronghold, and I got fed up with fighter's...

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:03 pm

Anomen as a Cavalier... I could see that. Besides, he sounds more at times like he should have 17 Cha instead of 13. Sure, he can be a boaster, but he really tries to be something unlike his father.

Jaheira sounds like she's fit as normal.

One thing I'd like to figure out (story wise) is why Imoen decided to pick up magecraft. She's got the thief part down, but I'm curious how much the mage part of her class structuring factors into both her story and her personality. Probably inspiration from all the mage-folks that were Harpers from her past in Candlekeep.

Valygar as a Wizard Slayer sounds like it would work, though how they factored in the 3 mage spells as specialties for Stalkers (think they should've been special abilities rather than spells that are memorized) makes sense in his case.

All the other characters seem to practically be pretty accurate class-wise, IMO.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:43 pm

Only one so far

Edwin to Sorcerer. He's a fine mage, but an insanely good sorcerer. I might do Minsc to Cleric/Ranger (though I'd have to fiddle his stats to make it work)

Ron_Lugge · Post by **Ron_Lugge** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:01 pm

Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
One thing I'd like to figure out (story wise) is why Imoen decided to pick up magecraft.

I think its because most people would dual-class her to mage.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 1:50 am

Originally posted by Minerva
That mod looks interesting, especially Jaheira being Ranger/Cleric. I once changed Valygar dualed to Cleric, though it wasted his own sword. I just prefer Valygar to Jaheira personality wise, that's all.

There are a few things which aren't covered and I want (and that matters most! ). For example, I want fighter dual to druid, instead of multi class. I tried it on Jaheira, but I couldn't make her dual class, even though I changed her into human, etc. I like using druid, but a few levels of fighter class gives them more choice in armours and better weapon proficiencies. Just like a few levels of thief or fighter gives mages more choice in weapon.

I also want fighter/thief multi class. I can make PC with it, but I don't like thief stronghold, and I got fed up with fighter's...

did you change her avatar to human? make her pure fighter, human, with human avatar...and then try again....and set all her levels to 0....it should work that way...

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:27 am

did you change her avatar to human?

the avatar does not matter, you can have any avatar. what matters is the RACE charachteristic - change it into human, change class into fighter, level into 0, hp to 1, delete the known spells, add enough XP to get the ftr level you want, save.

in the game, level up, dual-class, save game.

back to SK, add the extra XP (what you had minus what you put in ftr levels), save.

you can leave her avatar as a half-elf.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:14 am

Thanks, guys.

I must have missed the characteristics in the second page of SK (I think). I've also changed the avatar, just in case, to the one used in BG1. I prefer that one to new BG2 one, anyway.

Jyrran · Post by **Jyrran** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:37 am

Endless Possibilities...

So far, the only tweaking I've done to the NPCs was to 'fix' their weapon proficiencies to keep a better balance in the party.

Now, though, I might have to delve into the matter further and sample the possibilities!

Ron_Lugge · Post by **Ron_Lugge** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:00 pm

Originally posted by Mirk
the avatar does not matter, you can have any avatar. what matters is the RACE charachteristic - change it into human, change class into fighter, level into 0, hp to 1, delete the known spells, add enough XP to get the ftr level you want, save.

IIRC, monks get some of their bonuses from their avatar...

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:20 am

monk's avatar allows kick attacks, when fighting unarmed.