Dunno if this Tech Support board is the place to drop this, but I figure we have enough geeks at GB that I'm sure to get some good advice.
I'm going to buy a new computer right around the beginning of July. I looked at three makes: Alienware, Dell, and Gateway. After doing some comparing and pricing, I think I'd like to go with a Gateway. The system, right now, is:
Pentium 4 @ 2.6 GHz, 800 Mhz FSB with Hyper-threading technology
512 MB 333Mhz SDRAM
80 GB Ultra ATA100 HD (though I may go up to a 100 or 120 GB)
DVD drive and CD-RW drive (nothing special, AFAIK)
17'' LCD flat panel display (may go larger, but it gets pricey)
128 MB NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200G graphics card
SoundBlaster Audigy Audio with IEEE 1394 (Firewire)
Boston Acoustics BA745 speakers
And some other stuff that I don't think is too important.
My question is pretty much: whaddya think? Will this game? I know really nothing about computers. So, any advice would be appreciated. Are the video and audio cards OK? Any opinions on hard drive space? Anyone have any opinions on Gateway? (It's what I'm using now, and it has been pretty good to me.) I don't know how to go about building a computer from scratch, so unless one of you want to volunteer to visit and do so, I'm stuck with one of these companies that do that work for me.
Thanks, in advance.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
It's far more cheaper to buy non-branded PC. I talked to Weasel once and seems he have unplesant experience with Gateway PC. You might want to check your local computer store to check their custom assembled PC. On waranty side I think they are the same as branded ones in this term i mean one year warranty.
Anyway, the specs are good enough already Unless you wanna get an AMD system rather than Intel system which will slice the price dignificantly. I shall let others explain the AMD system since I'm not following AMD system nowadays.
You're quick, Kidd! Thanks for the info. I have heard that the Athlon chips (that's AMD, right?) are better than the Pentium, but Gateway doesn't offer them. Alienware does, but Alienware really is ridiculously expensive.
I'll see if I can find a local computer store to put something together for me. Truthfully, I had never thought of it. Not sure I know where to look, but I'll ask our computer guy at work - he should have an idea. Actually, all our work computers are Gateway, too, which is one more reason I felt comfortable with them - but if I can get the same thing cheaper ...
Thanks again.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
AFAIK AMD processor are cheaper than Intel and got higher speed. FYI try check Weasel's thread here he got a link which enable user to customise a system and let you see the total price, hence you can check which system is cheaper
Thanks for the link. It looks like Weasel and I are both on a buying spree. I tried running through the Build Your Own Athlon system, and the price came out to be just a tad more than Gateway - which surprised me. I'll play around with it some more, and also read through the Weasel post more carefully for more advice.
Thanks.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
@Yshania: Well, I'm doing OK income-wise right now, so budget is not an over-riding factor. The Gateway I am looking at (specs above) priced out at $1654 (US dollars). I might be willing to pay more if I thought it was getting me more. But, for example, I did a similar machine at Alienware, and came up with a price of about $2200. While I would be willing to bet that the Alienware machine is better in some respects, I just can't see it being worth that much more.
So I have questions like is the Soundblaster Audigy audio with IEEE 1394 Firewire really any better than Soundblaster 5.1? In the Weasel thread, HighLordDave seems to think it is not.
How much did your machine price at (if I may ask?) Have you put it through some high-end games? I guess FPS games are some of the toughest on a machine, but I don't play those. Neverwinter Nights is probably as demanding as I have on disk right now ... but standards change, of course.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
Well, like you I was a little nervous about building from scrap (I have no problem upgrading most bits though) I paid just less than £1600 for my machine, from a company very well respected in the UK. I also found Alienware expensive for what I was looking for, and I have the added problem of a lot of the suppliers will not ship to the UK.
As you see from the spec I posted, I am actually using an Nvidia built in sound card, which has proved more than adequate for my means (now my pc sounds better than my stereo! )
NWN and Asherons Call 2 are probably the highest challenge my pc will have graphically, and I have had no problem whatsoever. I must admit to having been a big fan of Nvidia cards previous to this purchase, and did seriously consider the card you are looking at (but it wasn't widely available then) However, I think that in respect of the types of games I play, the Radeon 9700 pro will future proof me for some time.
What are Gateway's after sales service like?
Parachute for sale, like new! Never opened!
Guinness, black goes with everything.
Yshania; Support from Gateway seems OK. I had some problems on my current machine with the DVD drive playing movies. I dropped them an e-mail with details, and they responded back in a timely fashion with some solutions. I know, too, from work that a monitor that went blooey was cheerfully replaced.
One of the price variations in the configuration is how much support you get. I chose "1 year parts and labor, no on-site support," which actually is downgraded from their default three years parts and labor, no on-site.
I'd be curious to know why Weasel is avoiding Gateway, Dell, et al ...
The video card: I just went to Gateway again to look, and the one I have chosen is actually the cheapest add that they offer. A Radeon 9800 would add $380 to the price. (The default is some on-board thing or another that I would prefer to avoid.)
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
I guess only Weasel could answer that But I have heard a couple of decent reports re Gateway... I might be wrong, but I think that Gwally might have bought from them, as has Thantor I think, and T'lainya...
I think a year is adequate considering how quickly components become outdated anyway, I guess it all depends on your confidence/ability to upgrade/repair yourself.
LOL! well what types of games do you play? I think that if the most graphically challenging at the moment is NWN, you should be ok for a bit. Flight sims or FPS are probably the hardest graphically, but I only play essentially 2D games...
My attitude was that I had spent the best part of five years upgrading the last one which outdated pretty quickly, I just wanted to future proof myself for at least a couple of years
btw, which monitor is it? I have an NEC 17" 1760NX LCD DVI, and I love it
Parachute for sale, like new! Never opened!
Guinness, black goes with everything.
Monitor: this is a sticking point for me. I had thought about buying the monitor seperately, and the NEC you list is exactly the one I had decided upon. But the one offered by Gateway is, AFAIK, not an NEC. My print-out of the specs just says: "17" LCD flat panel display (17" viewable) ... +US$150." Which makes me think it is just whatever Gateway can get cheapest at the time. But if I were to buy the monitor seperately, it would cost be about $540 rather than $150, so, again, I am hesitant to assume that there is that much difference.
I agree about the time of the service. To my way of thinking, if there is something wrong with the system, it will show up in the first year (more likely the first month), but after that - well, you may as well buy a new computer.
And my games: pretty much 2D RPG/strategy stuff. BG, IWD, NWN, MOO, Civ, I have Morrowind coming via Amazon right now, and I have considered buying Diablo. Nothing too fancy.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
Re the monitor, it is worth asking Gateway over the phone rather than email. I bought my system from a company called Mesh. By default, it offered a 19" Mitsubishi Diamondtron (IIRC) but I did not have the desk space for a 19" CRT so considered their upgrade to a flat panel for an additional £150. I was particular about wanting a DVI so I contacted them via phone asking them if their upgrade monitor (a Sharp) was a DVI. They informed me that it was not, but they happily offered me the NEC for the same price (though you have to buy the DVI cable separately – about £15 for 2m IIRC) If you are going with a pre-built pack, you are much more likely, I think, to save money by upgrading the monitor (since their price will likely include one as standard anyway)
So that card should suit you just fine
Parachute for sale, like new! Never opened!
Guinness, black goes with everything.
I've checked on Gateway and seems like they don't specify the speed of the DVDROM and the DVDRW. You might wanna ask for this matter to them.
Also if you have software knowledge you can install the software yourself. The idea of buying another set of software for new set of PC while you have already buy them with your old PC sounds like extorsion to me (unless it is a new version) You don't need a very good software knowledge to install Windows XP and other programs
What kind of internet you want to use ? You can always uncheck the modem option and buy it separately (get the best brand in the market that is afterwards if you want to buy "custom system"
The beauty of custom PC is you can ask for the best component for your PC (i.e. 3com for Ethernet card & modem etc.) Just remember to ask the shop if the hardware you ask are compatibe each other to assemble into a PC
On the other hand, branded PCs boast on their trade in service, oncall service etc. several "customer friendly" service which some of end user find it a bit disappointing later on. I got a client - a firm who use certain branded PC which offer them to trade in their old PC with new one and saying their old one got severe prob which only have 3 months tops before total break down - yet after close examination it only need to change it s HDD. There are other cases like upgrading etc. but it'll make this reply a bit too long then
@Yshania: Good advice regarding the LCD. I'll ask what the make of their default is, and see if I can upgrade to NEC for a nominal amount.
@Kidd: What kind of speed should I be looking for in the optical drives? The ones I have chosen are: 16x/48x for the DVD-ROM, and 48x/24x/48x for the CD-RW. And just what the heck does that all mean?!
As for software: I have Windows 98, and a version of MS Works from about the same era. It'll be cheaper now, I think, to get Windows XP (which I want) and an updated Works package with the computer, rather than buying them seperately and installing.
Thanks for the replies.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
Another question: I have chosen the 512 MB SDRAM @333 MHz, but I could upgrade (for only about $40 more) to the 512 MB SDRAM @ 400 MHz. Anyone have an opinion as to whether this is worth the added cost? It is not a lot of money ...
Alternatively, I could go up to 1024 MB @ 333 MHz for an add of about $240. That seems like it is getting out of my budget, though. Anyone here have a 1024 MB system? Comments?
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
DVDRW & CDRW answer in short term :
first number state the drive maximum read speed
second number state the drive maximum write speed
third number state the drive maximum re-write speed
Here's a place where you can read more about CDR and stuff
As for memory :
you need same bus speed with mother board speed. if you want to use the 400 MHz DDR memory you need to consult if the mother board support it or not.
1024 MB ? More memory the better. You can't get enough of memory with program development these days I say go for this one rather than getting a 512 MB 400Mhz one.
The main advantage of buying a name-brand computer is that you get name-brand support as well. This is very important if you can't do your own troubleshooting and repairs. You pay for this, though; when I built my current machine, I put about $600 (USD) into the hardware, while a comparable machine from Dell would have cost about $1,100.
The two best companies out there are Dell and Gateway. Both offer service and support that is superior to the other major manufacturers. I have dealt with both companies as a consumer and for a short time, worked for Dell. Both companies are slipping in their consumer satisfaction because they're shipping their technical support call centers in India (where labour costs are about a third what they are in the US) and American customers are very frustrated by the language barrier when dealing with a technician whose first language isn't American.
The major liability with buying a branded computer is that many times, they use proprietary components which makes modifiying and upgrading hard (if not impossible). HP and Compaq are notorious for this, as both use motherboards which have the sound and video chipsets on the board. Compaq even went so far as to use a proprietary memory chip with their machines, so if you wanted to upgrade memory, you had to buy it from them.
On the other end of the spectrum are shops and companies that specialise in niche computers. Alienware is the best known of these and they specialise in high-end gaming machines that have a very styled look to them. There are others out there, but with these, too, the consumers are looking for someone to help them out with service and support.
I will never buy a branded desktop computer, although I would buy a Dell if I suddenly found the need to own a laptop. Building your own, or getting a local shop to do it, is often less expensive, leaves open the possibilities for upgrading and you get the satisfaction of having put together what you want, rather than what a company puts together for you.
The downside, of course, is that you have to do most of your own technical support. While this is no problem for some people, the idea is daunting to others.
If you are going to buy a branded computer, how long are you going to keep it in service? It is my opinion that you should keep a machine under warranty as long as you reasonably expect it to be operational for you. I believe this because if you go with a machine that has proprietary parts, you need to be able to replace them (free of charge, that's why you are paying them) for the two or three years you expect your computer to function.
For instance, if you own a Dell laptop and the motherboard burns out, it will cost you a minimum of $968 (USD) to replace it out of warranty. That's pretty crappy if you only get a 1 year warranty and it blows up after 13 months. Desktop motherboards are less, but I believe it's still worth it to get a service contract of no less than three years on any machine you buy off the shelf.
If you build your own computer, most parts are going to have a 1 year manufacturer's warranty. That's not so bad because if something blows up, you can probably replace it for around $100 (or less) a year after you bought it.
My own experience with Gateway is very good (I've never owned one personally, but one of my former employers had a contract with them and they were very good to us), and I think you'll be very happy with their product if that's the way you go.
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
A couple of other comments from some points raised earlier in the thread:
Originally posted by der Moench To my way of thinking, if there is something wrong with the system, it will show up in the first year (more likely the first month), but after that - well, you may as well buy a new computer.
This is generally true for most components. If you get a bad motherboard, CPU or memory, it will probably fail within two weeks of purchase. However, other components (especially those with a lot of moving parts; ie-HDD, ODD) may take longer to fail. You should also consider possible damage due to either accidental causes (spilled liquid), negligence (power surges) and acts of God (lightning, floods). Find out from the manufacturer, which warranties cover which instances. For intance, both Dell and Gateway have programs which cover accidental damage, but the tend to cost extra. If you are unlucky, accident-prone or have children, it may be worth it to spend an extra $100 for accidental damage coverage.
Originally posted by KidD01 Also if you have software knowledge you can install the software yourself. The idea of buying another set of software for new set of PC while you have already buy them with your old PC sounds like extorsion to me (unless it is a new version) You don't need a very good software knowledge to install Windows XP and other programs
This is a very good point. If you have an older computer, you also have a license for the software. If you buy a new computer which comes with pre-loaded software, you're paying twice for the OS. There are a couple of good reasons to pay for a new OS (mainly that Microsoft is de-supporting any OS that isn't XP), but if you're happy with Windows98, why pay extra for Windows XP? Same thing for productivity suites like MS Office; if you already own a copy, why pay for two?
You probably won't be able to get Gateway to not sell you an OS, but if you call them, you may be able to get them to knock $50 off the price if you tell them that you don't need Office XP or Works Suite.
Two last points:
Buy as much memory as you can afford. If you're going to run Windows XP, don't get less than 256 MB. I would advise against buying memory from the manufacturer as they tend to mark it up horrifically. I'd get 256 MB from Gateway off the shelf (in one DIMM) and then go to a website like Pricewatch or NewEgg and buy more. Find out from Gateway what the front side bus is one the board and how much it will support. Then buy as much as you can afford.
As long as you're not going to be overclocking (which you won't be able to do with Gateway's factory BIOS), generic memory should be adequate, and costs as much as half as much as name brand memory.
If you can get an Audigy card from Gateway for a little bit more than the stock sound, I'd get it, but I wouldn't pay $200 (USD) for an Audigy card. Also be sure to get the best speakers available or you're wasting your money on the sound card.
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
Hi - I can't resist giving PC buying advise - so here goes.
With Gateway or Dell you might want to watch for special free shipping deals and the like - they often have these in conjunction with a holiday like Father's day and this can save you some money.
Don't Overbuy. What I mean is - the difference in price for the newest and greatest technology is never in favorable proportion to the increased expense. You want a rig that will run your games well for the next year or two - but don't try to buy a system on the premise that it will kick but for years to come - technology marches on too fast - no matter how much money you spend you will need to upgrade within 2 years max.
A good example would be the video card on the Gateway you have spec'ed out. I would definately take the nvidia card and not spend the money for the ATI. The reason is that the extra $380 is just too much - the nvidia will run your games now - and in 6 months time you will be able to upgrade to the ATI 9800 for $100 -when the price comes down due to an even newer and more powerful card being released. (upgrading a video card is relatively easy - and if you are not comfortable doing it most of the bigger computer stores will install the upgrade for you for free if you buy the card from them).
As far as the sound goes - the soundblaster audigy card will be more useful for audiophiles who will use its advanced features. If you just plan on playing a few mp3's and games - don't spend the money. Even a basic sound card does a great job these days.
Go for the 333 memory - there is very little difference in performance with the 400 mhz memory - the price just does not justify it.
The 80 gig hard drive should be just fine - unless you plan on doing video editing and making your own DVDs. Adding a second hard drive at a later time is always an option.
Keep in mind these suggestions are just to keep your price down - I am a very frugal person by nature and hate to spend more than I need to. If you want all the bells and whistles - then go for it. Don't let my tight wad nature keep you from spending if spend must - thats what keeps the economy going after all.
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@HLD: Thanks for the info. I am particularly glad to hear that you, at least, have some respect for Gateway. I think they will be my choice, unless I can find a local "build-it-yourself" outfit that strikes my fancy.
Re: RAM. I checked prices at the links you provided, and was quite surprised at how cheap you can get it. $75 for 512 MB - ?! Was I reading that right? I am still leary of that route for a few reasons: 1) I do not know which mfgr would be good (any advice?); 2) with the bewildering array of chips, I am a little afraid of getting the wrong type (I'll maybe talk with their support people, and see if I can get advice); 3) I'm not even 100% confident I can swap out the chips is it fairly easy? I did it once in an old, old Mac but not since.
Re: Sound. The Audigy card was a $75 add over their default. I am hesitant to take either a default sound card or video card.
@smass: Thank you, too! I rather think I need someone telling me not to overbuy right now. I keep swinging back and forth from a really awesome system to one that is just good. You may have saved me some money.
Re: hard drive space. You're probably right - 80 probably is enough. I have this dream of being able to have all of my games on my hard drive at the same time ... but then I wonder: "why?" Anyway, anything will seem spacious compared to my current 10 gig HD!
Thanks for the tip regarding RAM speed. I'll stick to the 333.
Gateway always has free shipping, so I am OK there.
I'll post my final decisions in the next week or so. Until then, I still welcome any and all advice.
Peace.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
