Music "inspiration"

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:41 am

Long delayed topic...
ToB music is really good IMHO, and it's not an accident.
Maybe some of you happen to possess the "Conan the Barbarian" original
SoundTrack, composed by Basil Poledouris...
(Wonderful movie, the first of the serie, and INCREDIBLE soundtrack..
Could Littiz do without it?!?!?

)

Well, the similarities are impressive.
Sounds, atmospheres, instruments...
I'm almost sure they used this cd as "guide", just listen to
the introductive sequence: rythm, cadence, the pounding of the
bass drums...
And I had the "already heard" feeling even elsewhere.
After defeating Yaga-Shura, IIRC, and one of the battle-themes...
But mostly, the choice of sounds and arrangements is what makes me sure.
(though without a real analysis or comparison)
What do you think about it?
(I'm not critic, I like it!!! The 80s, days of the best
heavy metal and cult-movies....)

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:28 pm

Well, the similarities are impressive.
Sounds, atmospheres, instruments...

Both used a style developed years before--Goldsmith, maybe, or even older than that: possibly Herrmann, from the 1930s and 40s. Since Williams discovered what a treasure trove there was in near-plagiarizing old composers for Star Wars, everybody's been doing it.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 2:54 pm

Originally posted by UncleScratchy

Or the way John Williams blatently plagurized Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake for the Harry Potter movie.

Absolutely! And let's not forget the Mars movement of Holst's Planets Suite, taken for Star Wars, or Marvin Hamlish, who had the gaul to accept an Academy Award for best music in a movie when all he did was create literal orchestral arrangements of Scott Joplin rags. But the list is endless.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 3:27 pm

I'm a big fan of the Conan the Barbarian soundtrack. I bought my first copy of it in 1983 (a vinyl album, of course) after seeing the movie. It was out of print for a while, but I did find a couple of copies in a used record store. I was so happy when it was released on CD, and of course I bought one.

I also like the music in Throne of Bhaal very much. I've never played another game where the music adds so much to the atmosphere.

So hopefully, you can see that I'm saying this without prejudice, but I've never noticed many similarities between the two, other than the fact that they use similar instrumentation (as most orchestras do). Like you, I'm not capable of much analysis (in my case, due to my ignorance of music in general). But it's interesting that you see similarities between the two.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:09 am

My musical knowledge cannot match with Fable's, nor goes so far back in time!!

I think that one is the only album of "epic music" (not considering
Manowar's albums....) that I possess...

Still... VonDondu, listen to the beginning (after the speech), and
then start ToB.
Don't you think that the rythm of the bass drums is damn close?
For the rest, it was only an impression, some climax, some, don't know how to call them... changes of pace, maybe?
Considering that we are speaking about a cult-fantasy-movie,
I'd bet someone at Bioware has heard it and... followed it!
(The themes are different of course, otherwise I would have thought
they were plagirizing)
Of course, I may be totally wrong!

@Litty: I'll have to get back to you on this after I've watched the movie and played thru ToB again. (Sorry, I changed my avatar again).

Thus making my comments elsewhere meaningless!!

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu Aug 22, 2002 4:22 am

Sorry for the spam, but...

If only Morlock could see this thread...

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:07 am

I dont got me no fancy words fer describin it....

I rekon the best bit of Bg music is the battle theme you get in soa when your fighting the dragons (And select other big nasties?)

Its good.. Sometimes I pause to plan my fight and dont get anything done couse im too busy listening to the music

Btw.. Conan the barbarian

I saw that movie (I think everyone has) and I cannea remember squat! About it....

Other than a Masterfull comment made by some critic or another on the subject of children in movies..........

"Children (To old to speak, to young to die) utterly ruin fantasy movies, sure there was a kid in conan. They made up for it though by having him push a big wheel for the duration of his childhood"

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:19 am

But isn't that just the standard classic fantasy adventure music? One draws from the proven and previous. Not that surprising really.

As I said, I don't possess that many epic cds!!

So that's the explanation, but still, I think they too
had that soundtrack...

Anyway Uncle, while I consider the 2th Conan movie more
like a joke, the first is surely one of the best ever!
Mainly for the great (spare) dialogs, like the prayer to Crom
where Conan THREATENS to damn his own God!!! Great....

I think I'll have to get it in DVD too!

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:15 am

What's best in life?

To crush your enemies, see them cleaven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.

Back on topic:
I miss the BGI music. I tought it was great. BGII and ToB have great soundtracks, but BGI had the greatest impact when I first heard.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 8:37 am

On that I miss all of bg1....

That tracking across the unnamed map areas had a real unsegmented feel that bg2 or tob just doesnt have

Imagine if you had to leg it across five or so map areas to get to each place in soa.. Every second or third with a little activity (Xvart village, the surgeon, something like that)

I think the problem is that in bg2 all quest begin in athkatla, whereas in 1 you go somewhere, get a quest.. Travel some more, get another one.. Its much more adventurish

I mean, in my veiw.. Soa and Tob, even with there fancy hla's and high lvl spells and better graphics and interface, more interparty banter and romances.. Still only equal bg1

Sorry about the off topic bit

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:05 am

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
But isn't that just the standard classic fantasy adventure music? One draws from the proven and previous. Not that surprising really.

Like I wrote in this thread, towards the beginning: "Both used a style developed years before--Goldsmith, maybe, or even older than that: possibly Herrmann, from the 1930s and 40s. Since Williams discovered what a treasure trove there was in near-plagiarizing old composers for Star Wars, everybody's been doing it." I might add that some people in the composing profession consider the raiding of old classics to furnish new scores literal plaigirism. After Star Wars, for instance, many of his musical colleagues wouldn't speak with Williams again, because they said most of the music in the film wasn't his.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:17 am

Originally posted by Leonardo
What's best in life?

To crush your enemies, see them cleaven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.

Back on topic:
I miss the BGI music. I tought it was great. BGII and ToB have great soundtracks, but BGI had the greatest impact when I first heard.

I agree, I felt the BG soundtrack worked far better with the game world than the BG2/ToB musics. Except the themes, I love the SoA and ToB themes.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:47 am

After Star Wars, for instance, many of his musical colleagues wouldn't speak with Williams again, because they said most of the music in the film wasn't his.

Deserved, if true....
An artist should never humiliate himself this way
Unless it wasn't something born from envy...
we have to remember that there are 12 notes, after all,
not 11918118467!
I swear I've heard people composing themes almost identical to
already-existing ones, completely by accident!
But... is an artist allowed to follow a style?

What's best in life?
To crush your enemies, see them cleaven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.

What did I say?
GREAT dialogs.....

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:08 am

"driven before you", even.

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:55 pm

Originally posted by Xyx
"driven before you", even.

Eheh, you can't blame a non-native english speaker for not understanding what another non-native english speaker (and one with a funny accent at that) is saying word-for-word...

To my defense, the subtitles for that quote could be translated back as "Kill your enemies, trample them and take their women". I understood it better than the guy who translated it for the subtitles!

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 9:57 am

I once found a beautiful quote on the web. It went as follows:

Conan, what is best in life?

To krush ze vimmen, see zem drifen before you, und to hear ze lamentation of- No, vait, vere's my script?

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:27 am

But why aren't those "foreign" actors dubbed?
Here they dub everything, even italian actors, if they don't speak well enough......

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:26 am

I meant no offense friend, and your English is excellent. I didn't realize that you might be working from a translation or subtitles (Arnold's accent is sometimes difficult to understand). If nothing else I think we can all agree that BRAZIL RULES - I mean in football (soccer) of course. . Congrats!

and I have not taken any,
that's where my english fails, when I try to look friendly and end up looking annoyed

Brazil is ruling on volleyball too

But why aren't those "foreign" actors dubbed?

In Brazil they dub movies when it goes on TV. On the theathers and on VCR (and some cable TV) they get subtitles. Movie dubbing is bad on general, but Brazil's cartoon dubbing is outstanding, sometimes being better than the originals. Homer Simpson's voice is amazing!

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 12:08 pm

Here everything is professionally dubbed.
I think it's tradition, 'cause we're unable to make good movies!

With the exception of "Non ci resta che piangere", one of Benigni's oldest movies!!!
Good times, they were..

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:20 pm

Don't say that! There is several good italian movies. Unfortunately, I can't remember the original names, just their translations, which were something like "Relatives are serpents" and "The Irreverent Five". The first was about a family which is trying to kill the patriarch to get the inheritance, the latter was one of the best comedies I ever saw, about five middle aged friends who live to have fun. Kind of Italian Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
And there's Amarcord, too!