Sports and Attitude

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:38 am

Well, if you haven't been watching the football, then you either don't have a TV, or you all sit at the computer too much.

When I see it, I see a lot of aggression, attitude and bad-mouthing. When the Portugese player grabbed the referee and nearly punched him, I was disgusted. What causes football to be like this?

Take this example; England played rugby against Argentina last night and were victorious, the score was 26-18 in Buenos Aries. Now, England had incredibly young players, in-fact, they were considered to be the 3rd or 4th string of national rugby, which I thought was amazing personally, but there you go. The players were fantastic throughout and had no attitude whatsoever, which brings me onto my main point. Ben Kay (a 2nd-row forward) came crashing into a ruck trying to clear it out with his boots, he missed, and caught another player (accident or purposeful is unknown). THe referee stopped the game and called him over. This is what he said:

"I'm sorry Sir, it won't happen again, it was an accident." He apologised three (3) times! Do football players do that?

I am a great fan of all national sport, and I love to watch any sport I can, the one thing I can't work out is that football (a non-violent sport apparently) causes so much violence.

I remember a phrase that was repeated to me by my rugby coach the first time we played in a school match:

"Footbal is a gentlemens game played by thugs. Rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen..."

I think football fans and players need to take a leaf out of the rugby's fans book and stop the hooliganism, violence and aggression that is rampant within the game at the moment...

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:44 am

Here! Here! Completely agree Nips

I have been watching rugby for years and the players seem to have a great deal of respect for the ref and his decisions, they may not agree but they do not chase him around the field like some football teams have been known to do.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:48 am

Well here is a good example of how the attitude towards sports has been a detriment.

IIRC, in the sixties. Hungary beat England 4-0 in England. After the game, the crowd who were undeniably all English supporters gave the Hungarians a rousing standing ovation as they left the field. As they were amazed at the quality shown. Today if a similar thing occured, there would be booing and hurling insults towards them. And then the next day, blaming their own players for such a loss. Beckham 98' ring a bell to anyone...

I'm not sure if Seaman is recieving the same treatment at the moment, but I sure hope he isn't.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:53 am

Originally posted by Tamerlane
Well here is a good example of how the attitude towards sports has been a detriment.

IIRC, in the sixties. Hungary beat England 4-0 in England. After the game, the crowd who were undeniably all English supporters gave the Hungarians a rousing standing ovation as they left the field. As they were amazed at the quality shown. Today if a similar thing occured, there would be booing and hurling insults towards them. And then the next day, blaming their own players for such a loss. Beckham 98' ring a bell to anyone...

I'm not sure if Seaman is recieving the same treatment at the moment, but I sure hope he isn't.

Seaman is not getting any stick at all. Even though he apologised the ENTIRE team is behind him and Beckham said that he would be incredibly angry if the nation blamed him, he is getting support.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:54 am

Thats nice to hear

CM · Post by CM » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:55 am

....and american football is a game of thugs played by thugs" to finish off the quote.

I agree, there are gentlemenly sports and then there are sports.
Cricket by far used to be very fair, with the umpire being the ultimate source. He said you go you go.
Today cricketers stand around and are very defiant.

Soccer/football is a sport without any respect.
Though an excellent game, i think the excess of money goes to the players head where they argue with the ref when they get a yellow or red.
Shut and accept it is something i always think when i see them arguing.
Its not like you can change his mind once he has given the card

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:57 am

@ CM

Well we started that. I hate the arrogant manner which is shown sometimes by our boys. The Waugh twins started that trend

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 7:25 am

As for professional basketball...

...like the NBA (btw, Go Lakers!!! Four-ward!

), it is even sadder that a significant number of coaches do not get their much deserved respect from their players simply because they got waaaaayyyyy much more money.

A lot of times they get sacked because the players themselves (particularly the resident star player with the BIG EGO) don't like their coaches.

Only a few coaches like Phil Jackson are still very much respected because they deliver the goods in terms of winnings and championship rings.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 7:44 am

@Sleep and Nippy, another thing to consider re the difference between rugby and football is the money involved, and the fact that because so much money is involved in football, there is more arrogance and more egos. Fans see their clubs spend silly amounts on players and expect a lot more, a twenty million pound price tag also has many players believing they are a gift. There is no 'I' in the word team, and often we see football 'teams' are just a collection of idolised big names. Money = attitude. Until recent years, rugby was an amateur sport and did not get any comparable financial backing...

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 7:53 am

Precisely...

Originally posted by Yshania
@Sleep and Nippy, another thing to consider re the difference between rugby and football is the money involved, and the fact that because so much money is involved in football, there is more arrogance and more egos. Fans see their clubs spend silly amounts on players and expect a lot more, a twenty million pound price tag also has many players believing they are a gift. There is no 'I' in the word team, and often we see football 'teams' are just a collection of idolised big names. Money = attitude. Until recent years, rugby was an amateur sport and did not get any comparable financial backing...

...my dear Spyder-driving, leather-wearing, flower princess!

That is what is all about now in most professional team sports: Big Money=Big Ego=Loss of Passion for the Game.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 9:36 am

Originally posted by Yshania
Money = attitude. Until recent years, rugby was an amateur sport and did not get any comparable financial backing...

Yes and no, looking at Rugby league of a few years ago they were all getting paid more than union but that didn't change the attitudes of the players. Rugby players are getting paid more and more and the game is becoming more cosmopolitan but i haven't witnessed the type of behaviour that is so common in football, if it does happen it is one sullen player and not the entire team.

Also in rugby the ref brings over the offending player and the captain, this seems to have a large effect and also makes the captain an important part of keeping his team in check, if the team get out of hand the captain is at fault not the player...could you see Roy Keane doing that?

Although your point is entierly valid it might also be a more intrinsic difference between the sports. In rugby you get to take your aggression and frustration out by playing more proactively or taking the game to the other side, in football for large portions of the game a player will be dormant, so his frustration just builds.

As for the issue of crowd violence, i think it is just people who would be doing that kind of thing anyway except they direct it towards a more cosmopolitan medium.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:44 pm

Hmm, as a player/ref for football and a player of rugby, I agree. Even in the amatuer levels of soccer, you lip of to the ref, I''m the captain of my soccer team, and I don't show the ref nearly as much respect as I do in rugby. In soccer, its ok to shout "ref!", in rugby, it is always "Mr. Referee" or "Sir". Anything other than that is just not acceptable.
As for on the field, soccer is downright dirty. I'm also the keeper of my team, and during free kicks I've landed a few blows on the guys trying to screen me etc. Kicked them, you get the idea. In rugby, I've been absolotuly CRUSHED by the other teams forward line, and then the guy will pick me up and ask if I want physio. The sportsmanship is so much greater because theres a lot more respect amongst players in rugby for just being out there.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:45 pm

The way I see it, especially in the difference between football and rugby (and that quote is so, so true Nippy) is that in football, any bad fouls you commit will be instantly picked up by the referee, and you will be penalised. In rugby, when you're in the middle of a ruck, all sorts of things happen without anyone knowing, or in most cases caring. Football players are such precious little things, rugby players are, in my experience, hard. Any complaining at the ref will most likely be punished with a good kneeing next time you see the offending player, whereas footballers are so protected that they can cry like babies and suffer no repercussions. Oh, and football players are far more arrogant.