Is it a case of stashing them away in an old folks home until they stop living or should it be up to the family to look after them up to the point of stress and strain?
Does anyone have any experience on this subject?
I am young and i have this assertion that i will throw myself out of a plane before i end up in a home wasting away or being a burden. I do appreciate that might change with time, for the moment though, it seems like the best way to go
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
well, i think that the ideal way, would be that the old people would, be nutured by their own family.. but in these days, where an "normal" adult don't even have time for their kids, thay rot up in some institution of some art. how could you find time for your old parents, or grandparents. Old and mainly senil people are very stressing to be around, and crave alot of care.
Maby it's best that you leave it to some pro's.... i don't know...
And on the other hand, i think most pople stick their old family members on a home, is because they remind them of death, and that they are going to be old some day too.
It's sad that so many old people rot up in an home, without their family around them.
* Dail u-... chyn ... U-danno i failad a thi; an uben tannatha le failad.*
Originally posted by Azmodan It's sad that so many old people rot up in an home, without their family around them.
It is but they do spend time around people of their own age range, i have been to old folks homes and there is a certain camaraderie between the people there, when they are alone with the family there is even more isolation.
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
One of my grandmothers lived with my parents and me until she died (aged 93). She was frail, but mentally fit and we had no problems caring for her even when she was sick.
My other grandma on the other hand (died at age 85) lost her mind and her eyesight in the last 2-3 years and would've been a danger to herself and probably to anyone else in her vincinity.
We gave her into a home (about 15min. with the car from our home) where the medical facilities were up to the necessary standards (some things you CAN'T do at home) needed for therapy and/or safekeeping.
Also you can't ecpect (for example ! ) a single parent to be able to care for his/her elders the same way that a family with 3 adult children in the same house would be able to do... SO IMO it's entirely up to the situation at hand how to decide...
For myself I'd even accept being shoved off to some "Senior Retreat" (or whatever that's called) before I end up a burden for my children...even if I prefered to live forever ...
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It's disgusting how quick some ppl trow their (grand)parents in a home. If they can live without support, let them, if they cant give them help (a nurse or something) or take them in your own home. Only when they're really impossible and, forgive me the expression, *****y (like my grandma from my fathers side) and make living with them really difficult you can consider a home.
Originally posted by /-\lastor It's disgusting how quick some ppl trow their (grand)parents in a home. If they can live without support, let them, if they cant give them help (a nurse or something) or take them in your own home. Only when they're really impossible and, forgive me the expression, *****y (like my grandma from my fathers side) and make living with them really difficult you can consider a home.
Like Beldin says it depends on the individual situation, one also has to consider what one would want when they are that age...how many of you have actually been to an Old Folks Home? I am curious to know the overall reaction to them as an institution, i always found them quite an inviting place.
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
Mr. Sleep... you are right!.. but that is in a institution..
i have worked for a very short while as an (i dont know what it is called in english) old folks "helper" , i came every day, helped them to take baths, get in some clothes, took them to the activity center or the hairdresser (or what ever). helped do the shopping, house cleaning and laundry.
These people should be able to function in the socity, but some of them are so senil thay only remembers the last 10 min. so the same old man can ask you 20 times the same day what your name is, and if you work here... And my experience is that a very large procentage of those elders, do not have any contact with their family. that is why i wrote the post above.
But Mr. Sleep as i have allready said once, you are completly right, they allso need compagny of some "fellow elders".
It's just a shame that their kids and grandkids are so "bad" at visiting them too.
* Dail u-... chyn ... U-danno i failad a thi; an uben tannatha le failad.*
Originally posted by Azmodan It's just a shame that their kids and grandkids are so "bad" at visiting them too.
Definately, i had one great aunt who i went to visit more than her own brother and my uncles, my mum and me would quite often go to see her (she had turned senile BTW) it was sad to see how they all came running once the cheques were being handed out
I have worked for a very short while as an (i dont know what it is called in english) old folks "helper"
Did you find it a rewarding experience?
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
My grandfather died in 1990 and my grandmother has lived by herself since. She never learned how to drive and for a couple of years lived in their house relying on neighbours and friends to take her to the store, the doctor(s) and church. Finally, Dad moved her to town with him so she would be closer to family. She had an apartment, but not many friends so Dad and his wife had to take her everywhere she needed to go.
Three years ago, Grandma fell and broke her hip. After some discussion, Dad and his brother decided the best thing to do was to move Grandma out of her apartment and into an assisted-care facility. She fought tooth and nail against it, but finally acquiesced.
It was the best thing that ever happened to her. After living alone for close to 10 years, she was back in a social setting. She is surrounded by new friends who are often in similar situations--widowed, older, not a lot of family. The care she receives is absolutely first-rate and the facility is state-of-the-art, which she of course is paying for. Dad doesn't have to check in on Grandma every day to make sure she has taken her medicine or if she has to go to the doctor. That is all done for her. Plus she's not a single shut-in anymore.
Should everyone be consigned to a nursing home? No. Some people can't afford it; Grandma pays an exhorbitant amount every month for the care she receives, and for people who didn't save as much as she and Grandpa did, the kind of facility where she lives is simply out of reach.
Still she is fortunate because her health problems are not as bad as some people twenty years younger (she's 95) who would require more intensive monitoring and care. I think the question of whether or not to "warehouse" your parents is not one to be addressed lightly and each situation is different. On the one hand you don't want to stuff your Mom or Dad away, but on the other I know that when I get older, I don't want to be a burden on my kids and prevent them from living their own lives, either.
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i know!.....it's SO disgusting, that the body isn't even cold yet, before some familys start a catfight over the money left!.
for 4 days ago, my bf uncle died from a heart problem (only 40 something). and when we went to the funeral, his ex-wife had gone through with the funeral, even though the body still was waiting for an ortopsy. so we buried a man who wasn't there..
I think it has something to do woth the money he left behind... the quicker burial, the qucker payout??.i dont know..
Sorry, this wasn't about old people.. but still
* Dail u-... chyn ... U-danno i failad a thi; an uben tannatha le failad.*
Originally posted by Azmodan i know!.....it's SO disgusting, that the body isn't even cold yet, before some familys start a catfight over the money left!.
for 4 days ago, my bf uncle died from a heart problem (only 40 something). and when we went to the funeral, his ex-wife had gone through with the funeral, even though the body still was waiting for an ortopsy. so we buried a man who wasn't there..
I think it has something to do woth the money he left behind... the quicker burial, the qucker payout??.i dont know..
Sorry, this wasn't about old people.. but still
Don't worry it is on subject The money issue is one that is pertinent to my situation (more my parents than me) it seems that some of the relatives are being a little covetous over the money, although i don't really want to get into pointing fingers
The problem in this country is inheritance tax, it can get very messy and expensive
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
Your family sounds a great deal like my anty and uncle. They've spent the past 10 years living in Jersey (Channel islands Jersey) waiting for my uncle's father, who is one of the major landowners in Jersey, to drop off so they can get the inheritence. So far he's stubbornly refused to die, a fact that annoys my aunty intensely.
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Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper Your family sounds a great deal like my anty and uncle. They've spent the past 10 years living in Jersey (Channel islands Jersey) waiting for my uncle's father, who is one of the major landowners in Jersey, to drop off so they can get the inheritence. So far he's stubbornly refused to die, a fact that annoys my aunty intensely.
They aren't quite that up-front about their feelings but i have seen them do it before. My actual family are cool about it all just wanting what is best etc, it is the others that claim intellectual rights on the situation using dirty tactics to futher their own ends and making everyone else feel guilty.
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
Oh, my aunty never says anything to my cousin's grandpa's face, but she came over here last Christmas and there was a lot of "Thank God I don't have to visit him this weekend." and "Why can't he hurry up and die".-ing going on.
He was given an estimated 3 years more to live five years ago now, in the meantime they're living quite comfortably off his fortune while they wait for him to die.
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@ mr Sleep:
yes it was a very rewarding experience. i had a good look inside the everyday life of those old people, plus i got to understand just how wrong the politics in this contry is towards the elders.
But at the time i worked there, i was only 17, so i was i little too young to cope this line of job. you need a good part of life experience to work with these people.
¨But i am NEVER to do that again....
* Dail u-... chyn ... U-danno i failad a thi; an uben tannatha le failad.*
Originally posted by Azmodan sorry.. i was away for a while.....
don't worry i have to go off and do work no anyway
yes it was a very rewarding experience. i had a good look inside the everyday life of those old people, plus i got to understand just how wrong the politics in this contry is towards the elders.
I imagine they had lots of stories to tell? They are people, just because one is old doesn't necessarilly mean decrepit
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
yes, they have alot of stories... but what i found most amusing, was......
that when i worked there i had purple dreads, and had chains from my nose to my earlobes (yup it looks retarded).. And all my fellow "nurses" was very fixated on it, and said that i would scare the crap out of those old folks. But actually they were just curious of how i got those rings and chains there, how i picked my nose, and how i got that color in my hair.
They had seen hippies, provos, rockers and everything else life has to offer, so a little punk couldent scare them.
I think that sometimes young people like myself, is in too much hurry to reach something (career, family and so on) they need to stop up and listen to some of the old people, because they know what they are talking about, and they can learn you something about trianquility... and just beeing happy for this day that is right now.
But offcourse i have allso met old people who were just plain grumpy old whining bastards. not all of them are nice.
* Dail u-... chyn ... U-danno i failad a thi; an uben tannatha le failad.*
Originally posted by Azmodan that when i worked there i had purple dreads, and had chains from my nose to my earlobes (yup it looks retarded).. And all my fellow "nurses" was very fixated on it, and said that i would scare the crap out of those old folks. But actually they were just curious of how i got those rings and chains there, how i picked my nose, and how i got that color in my hair.
Actually i always wondered about that as well, how does one pick their nose with a nose ring? Like you say, they have seen it all before, experience is very important, it isn't quite the same as widsom but it is an important factor. I actually now a 92 year old who is more bubbly and brilliant than most of the people my age, she is fun to talk to and is always smiling and happy at new things, i don't think she would do well in a home, she is too much of a character, she however is visited all the time by her family
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
As I see it, there are several issues related to the questions what to do with old people.
1. People live much longer long than in previous times, and because of the medical development many survive despite diseases and conditions that would have resulted in death in the old days. This results in a large group of elderly people that live, but needs regular, perhaps constant, health care. Many elderly people can't be taken care of by their families simply because they need professional health services and medical eqipment.
2. In Western society today, people have a family structure unsuitable both for taking care of many children, and taking care of elderly. Single households and households where both parents work full time is the rule. In other parts of the world where the family does not only consists of the "core family", (father, mother and children) but instead of more than one generations living in the same house, it's easier to make sure somebody is always there to look after children as well as the elderly.
3. A big problem as I see it, is that elderly people have no natural place in our society. Western society is very focused on work and work performance, and after retirement, people no longer have a role in society to fill. This leads to isolation problems and depression among elderly. The day you stop working it's like you don't belong to society any more. Like HLD describes about his Grandma, many elderly would most likely have a better life if they moved to a home where they could participate in a social context, rather than sitting alone in their houses and wait for the rare occations when children and grandchildren have time to visit.
I know a professor in sociology who supervised a PhD dissertation investigating the situation for elderly widowers in Sweden. He once said to me: "Although it was 10 years ago my PhD student finished the work, I read the dissertation at least once a year, and I weep every time. It reminds me of how much work we have left also in this social wellfare society."
IMO we can't push all of the responsibility of elderly over to the families, not when society at the same time demands double incomes to be able to raise children. Stress is one the major health problems in modern society already, and it's both expensive for the society as well as cause a lot of human suffering. Unfortunately I see no other solution to this problem than change what I think is the root: the lack of humanitarian values in a society based on production and performance.
A good society to study here is Norway. For instance they have 6-hour workdays (that is full time, so you get paid equally to a US or European 8-hour workday) and they have focused a lot on how to structure a society where people have space both for work, family and recreation. Interestingly, the Norwegian introduction of 30-hour weeks, did not at all change the production! Many people found this surprising, but the explanation is simple: people work more efficiently during this shorter day. Breaks are less frequent, lunch is shorter, people get rid of the common afternoon low (a majority of people experience a low in the late afternoon, usually somewhere between 3-5 pm, and this is believed to be due to the so called circadian rythm, our biological, day-light controlled cycle) so it's easier to keep concentration.
So, my conclusion is that we need a twofold solution to elderly care: One aspect is to allow people to spend more time and energy on the family, the elderly included. The other aspect is to change norms and values in society and create a role also for old people, and work for better contact between generation. Western society is a highly age-segregated society, and everybody - especially the children I think - would benefit from a better integration.
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My family is quite young, my mum and dad are respectively 37 and 35 and my grandparents are 67 and 66. My dad was 17 when I was born! (He is my step-dad). Our family will always be close age-wise and I have never really considered what would happen when they became 'old'. My grandad is 67 and plays gold 3 times a week and is still physically very fit, he used to be in the Navy and is a great character. His body may be old, but his mind and his heart isn't. (He still looks about 55 though. )
I always joke around with my grandparents about sending them off to homes and the like, but I don't think they would need it. They are still fit and healthy and won't need to go for a long time yet. I can't ever see any of my family needing to go. I wouldn't want it, but my career might limit my options. I can't look after my family if I'm on a ship in the Indian Ocean...
