Devil's Advocate (My last post?)

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:59 am

I don't know how much I'm risking here, but if I feel something
is right, I have to do it... That's my nature.
I really want to spend two words for someone who has no more the
right to reply, and I post here because people here know what
happened.
I understand EXACTLY what was Wraithlord's mistake, the rules are
the rules. I ONLY have to point that as far as I have understood,
he owned a legitimate copy of the game, as he ordered a replacement
for a bad cd, but didn't have the patience to wait.

Just wanted to remember that if he indeed BROKE the forum rules (speaking about such things), this doesn't make him a THIEF in the "real" world. Or not entirely.
I guess he had to await and "suffer", so I'm NOT justifying him, but
I think that he deserves at least some extenuating circumstances
as the "banned" under his name sounds very bad.
(I've PAYED for my game too, if I was to await for two months only to
get a replacement, this would surely be a nuisance...
I could die by accident in those two months after all! Time has its
value, you all know.)
But he can't speak for himself, so I do this for him.

Uhm. Probably this topic will be closed. Maybe I'll be banned..
I hope you guys will understand what I'm saying and will NOT ban me.
(I don't think that I've violated THAT rule, after all)
But if you do, know that I have had a VERY nice time with all the guys
here! Really!

Still I believe in my morality and had to follow my signatures!
I'd love to hear Fable's opinion, though.

(my english is poor, I may have misunderstood the whole thing,
if this is the case, forgive me)

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:08 am

Banish the thought!

I am sure you won't lose anything here! Not even reputation points

Having said that, I understand perfectly where you are coming from, Littiz. For the record, I enjoy spending my time with the GameBanshee community too, and would really hate losing posting privileges because of an oversight. What he did, though unintentional, was wrong and there could be more compassion shown under the circumstances you described. But as you said, rules are rules, and someone has to be firm, for the benefit of other members. Whatever that is said now can only be moot.

I also understand perfectly that moderators have a role to play and they need to run a tight ship so that the community as a whole can enjoy their time here without having to deal with trolls, spammers, and what have you in every single thread. At the last count, we have over 5,000 members, and being a moderator myself in my university days, I know how difficult that can be. Kudos to Fable, Aegis, Demis and Mr Sleep (to name a few) who are doing an excellent job.

All things said and done, I certainly think you and I can look forward to enjoying our time here, share witty ideas, have a laugh or two and help others to play the game that we love so much.

Cheers.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:37 am

Originally posted by Littiz
I understand EXACTLY what was Wraithlord's mistake, the rules are the rules. I ONLY have to point that as far as I have understood, he owned a legitimate copy of the game, as he ordered a replacement for a bad cd, but didn't have the patience to wait.

He said he had a non-legitimate (ie, illegal) copy (of the game), which is why Buck banned him. You infer something that isn't in his comments.

Just wanted to remember that if he indeed BROKE the forum rules (speaking about such things), this doesn't make him a THIEF in the "real" world.

First, there's no if about it: he broke Buck's rule, and it's a basic rule of many forums. To quote Buck: "Questions or ideas that deal with illegal activities, including any post related to software piracy, will be removed immediately and you'll lose all posting privileges." The poster in question was soliciting assistance because his pirated copy of BG2 had gone bad.

Second: sure it makes him a thief in the realworld. He stole software developed by Bioware, and produced by Interplay. That's as realworld as you can get.

For those who are wondering, Bioware was built less than a decade ago by four family physicians in western Canada. All of them were dedicated RPG PnP players from their teens. They developed programming skills in their spare time between visiting patients, and raising families. It was a hobby. Stealing from them isn't equivalent to some pseudo-heroic raid on anonymous international corporations. Stealing from Bioware doesn't take brains, or liberate anything belonging to anybody else. Stealing from Bioware only results in less income for the guys who put their love and ingenuity into a few games that we all greatly enjoy.

I can only speak for myself, but--IMO, stealing from developers has *no* redeeming excuse.

Rather than close this topic which is really irrelevant to BG2, I am moving it over to SYM (Speak Your Mind) for general discussion. Buck may desire, of course, to close it down, which is understandable.

As for your being banned--I wouldn't worry about it.

I do think this is not the kind of thing that should have been posted in the BG2 forum, and I'm not sure it should have been posted at all, rather than being submitted to Buck as a PM or email. But it seems to me that you're questioning a banning, and not soliciting info on either pirating, or after having pirated software.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:00 am

Ban him!!!!!

j/k

Oh dear, another one bites the dust. He broke the forum rules, he got banned, life goes on. You'll meet other people. Maybe you'll go. Will you be missed?

Bottom line is he was fishing for a cracked copy of the game.

Its just a game, this is just a web site. But Buck has to be careful when it comes to computer piracy.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:13 am

Well, as with all of this "piracy" issues, it is legal if he owned a retail copy of the game. In all North American countries, it is legal to possess a burned/cracked copy of the game, if the retail is also in your possession. My biggest problem though is that there is no way of telling if they own it or not. In the particular case, I feel we really can't give any good discussion, as us in SYM don't know the full story (I personally stopped lurking the BG2 board back in October). If a link could be posted, I'll get back to you with a more thorough reply.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:33 am

"Piracy" is never been a good thing, even though in most Asian countries "pirated" Games or software still have lots of demands. Well enough on "piracy" thingy, before we get into more deep discussion about this "Forbidden Fruit"

As hardcore gamer, it's understandable that someone sometimes "willing to sell their soul to the devil" just to be able to play the game - than waiting for replacement for sometime. I don't know details about the "tragedy" but rules are rules. Perhaps if he take it to PM or email another member about the "item" he required, than post it openly on the forum - this tragedy will not happen.

<EDIT> As example : There's an emulation forum I'm on, which specificly prohibit members to post the ROM links - since ROM are illegal stuff. But you can still use the PM feature to ask other members regarding this matter

(@Mods : Pls correct me if I'm wrong about this PM & email matter)

Bruide · Post by **Bruide** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:50 am

the link to the offence

@Aegis. I think this link will take you to the thread if you want to read about it.

wraithlords pirate software story

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:01 am

Well after carefully read the cronology, he sure ask for it anyway *SIGH* I hope he wear the "Baassied" title real proud, no offense here - but understanding forum rules and keeping it in mind is a must if you want to post on GB forums.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:04 am

I think its just basic common sense. And if you have none, read the forum rules! Its all in there.

He knew what he was doing - he was very cagey and sheepish when prompted by HLD.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:22 am

Ok, guys, I see all your points, I basicly think you're right,
just let me explain a moment why I posted this, and why in that place.

I still think that he possessed a legal copy, for it is the only case
in which you can get a replacement.
Don't know what he has done after, and he cannot further explain it as
he's banned now.
If I discovered such a thing, I would be very frustrated not to be
able to explain, or, why not, say "I'm sorry."
So I posted this one, where people had followed the story, as
to give him one "last word" and to raise the doubt about what he has
effectively done.

About piracy, there's not even a discussion. I'll be a programmer,
so I'm against it and these are not hollow words...

@Gruntboy: you're right too, this is not so important, and this is
why I could have beared being banned in my turn!

I guess from your words that YOU wouldn't miss me..

Everything it's relative, I encounter often the same people in the
Bg2 forum, so I did it, that's all.

Sorry for the nuisance.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:30 am

Originally posted by Littiz
@Gruntboy: you're right too, this is not so important, and this is
why I could have beared being banned in my turn!
I guess from your words that YOU wouldn't miss me..
Everything it's relative, I encounter often the same people in the
Bg2 forum, so I did it, that's all.

No offencem it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'm sure no-one will lament my passing.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:39 am

Originally posted by Littiz
I still think that he possessed a legal copy, for it is the only case in which you can get a replacement.

I don't follow you. I mean, he admited it wasn't a legal copy that he had: he said this. And he could have gotten a replacement from his friendly mom and pop warez site for that single messed up disk.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:39 am

Originally posted by Littiz
<SNIP>I still think that he possessed a legal copy, for it is the only case in which you can get a replacement.
<SNIP>

Littiz, FYI Pirated sofware also comes with warranty - usually for a certain short limited time.

But to clarify the matters, why don't you try email him asking if he really have the legal copy ?

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:44 am

Originally posted by Gruntboy
Maybe you'll go. Will you be missed?

LMAO

, damn, Grunt...

Re: "Wraithlord", there aren't that many bannable offenses, how many firing synapses in your brain do you need to to avoid making them? Piracy was given its name for a reason. Saying that it is not "real" thievery is like saying that even though you drink and smoke, you don't use drugs. Besides, his name is a cheap rip-off of mine

, so to hell with him.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:54 am

Originally posted by fable
I don't follow you. I mean, he admited it wasn't a legal copy that he had: he said this. And he could have gotten a replacement from his friendly mom and pop warez site for that single messed up disk.

Calm down Sir fable, I sympathise your hatred toward "piracy"

@Foul : LOL Grunty is always a bit "deformed" as usual

@Grunty : Perhaps more hugging like vivien did will make everyone be missed if they're gone

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:59 am

Plus it's not like Buck bans someone everyday.. (how many have you seen go to ban land..? 10, 11..)

1. The first rule is Common Sense!

Following this one rule will save you from ban land.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:05 am

Do we even have that many?

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:08 am

Originally posted by KidD01
Calm down Sir fable, I sympathise your hatred toward "piracy"

Hey, I'm not angry. If I were angry, I'd use angry emoticons. Instead, I've been using emoticons that would pass muster with Barney.

Do we even have that many?

Yes, @Aegis. As a mod, you are allowed to read the special goldleaf with vine filiegree edition of the forum rules.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:09 am

Originally posted by fable
Yes, @Aegis. As a mod, you are allowed to read the special goldleaf with vine filiegree edition of the forum rules.

Huh?

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:11 am

Originally posted by fable

Do we even have that many?

Yes, @Aegis. As a mod, you are allowed to read the special goldleaf with vine filiegree edition of the forum rules.

Good one

I believe he meant...that many people banned.

1. Would be Banned Baassie

2. (#######) Baassie's other name.