Is dual wielding the ultimate weapon attack?

at99 · Post by **at99** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 7:55 pm

I am stil a bit confused by dual wielding. It means you get double the attacks right.
eg 2 attacks per round would be 4 under dual wield.

An example of a 2HD sword +5 would be max 15 dmg. (not dual wield)
If you had 2 long swords dual wield (max 16 dmg)
2 katanas +2 would be (max 24 dmg).

This seems a huge advantage? why have weapons like 2HD swords.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 8:34 pm

Hehe, Well, the thing about two handed wpns, is that they are easier to use, you dont have to devote three slots to the prof just to be able to hit something. Also, if you do put in 2 slots, you get an improved chance of critical, and all your strength bonuses still apply. Also, if you have a 2 handed wpn, you can hold a bow in one of you slots rather than going into inventory to get it. Additionally, there are more 2handed wpns that have vorpal hit effects, and have better resistances, especially in the early game.

So basically, dual wielding is the way to go if you want your character to do so, and lose the slots to dual wielding, you can do insane amounts of damage, but lower thaco's early on, and a lower chance of hitting a critical.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:39 pm

dual wielding adds one attack. it does not double the number of attacks.

there are some great two handed wepaons that may be more effective than some dual wielding combo's, carsomyr comes to mind.

on the other hand there are some dual wield combos that are very effective. and plenty of one handed weapons that offer immunities / bonuses vs some forms of attack.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:36 pm

The armour class bonus of a shield can not be overlooked. For giving up one attack a round you can have a reduction of at least 6 in your AC. The shield of reflection is also a handy damage wielding asset. - Curdis

at99 · Post by **at99** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 11:17 pm

I though DW does double the attacks. Someone said it adds only 1 attack to a round. I did not know this important point.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:11 am

Yeah why did the "forget" to implement that two-handed weapons are supposed to give you 1½ strength bonus and if you dual wield you get your normal strength bonus to your main hand and half to your off hand. Isn't that the way it is supposed to work?

two · Post by **two** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:09 am

Originally posted by Bruce Lee:
<STRONG>Yeah why did the "forget" to implement that two-handed weapons are supposed to give you 1½ strength bonus and if you dual wield you get your normal strength bonus to your main hand and half to your off hand. Isn't that the way it is supposed to work?</STRONG>

Or, for that matter, "forget" to apply damage increases/reductions with regards to enemy size? i.e. attacking a giant with a dagger does hardly any damage, but a 2-handed sword does big damage no matter the size.

As it stands 2-handed weapons are NOT worth it except for paladins. Shield are not great either. It's so so so much better to have Celestial Fury + Belm, Celestial Fury + FOA, Celestial Fury + any other weapon with nice specials.

The AC "loss" of missing out on a shield is more than made up by the CF/FOA combination special abilities which end up stunning/slowing (or both) the enemy before they can even attack you. It's better to have the enemy stunned or dead than to let them attack you when you have a shield. It's better to have the enemy stunned/slowed then attack them with a 2-handed weapon which will end up doing, possibly, only as much (not more) damage than the dual-wielder.

Also, generally you will hit first with a katana, but not a 2-handed sword type thing or halberd.

So anyway, you just can't go wrong dual-wielding. Grab Daystar and CF and FOA and Belm early early in the game, and use forever. Enjoy!

Amidala · Post by **Amidala** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 12:51 pm

If you do not have 3 points in dual wield prof you get a THAC0 penalty which is severe if you are not able to put more than one point there.
If you wield 1 extra weapon it will do 1 attack, but both weapons would receive a THAC0 penalty.
So dual wielding is only usefull if the second weapon has a special ability (+str, +attack, etc.) or you have 3 points in it or a very low THAC0.
Worst case, no points in dual wield:
Second hand gets a -8 penalty to THAC0 and the main hand is penalized by -4.
Now add in -4 penalty for a whirlwind and you successfully transformed yourself to a fighter with mage THAC0.
;-)

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Amidala ]

Amidala · Post by **Amidala** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 1:08 pm

The shield aspect:
It depends on your gear setup.
If you give all the good AC stuff to one frontliner eg Korgan than he can have AC:-10 in SoA or -15 with shield in ToB you can get lower.
Now assume you enemy has THAC0=-5 he will hit you like THAC0=5 if you have AC=-10 or like THAC0=10 if you have AC=-15.
So you get hit twice as often without a shield.
However if you only have a AC=-5 and the enemy has THAC0=-10 you are lost anyway.

SoulWound · Post by **SoulWound** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:04 pm

This is my first time into the game and i'm dual weidling the flail of ages and the wyvern tail, on my dwarf bersker. He does a ton of damage usely 30-50 a round. And only has a thaco of 4 on my main hand and 7 on my off hand. AC with out a shield is -4 so that hurts sometimes, not not often an enemy is able to surive long anuff to do any major damage to me tho.

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 3:59 pm

Where do people find out this extra info on weapon modifiers?.

Why is not 1 slot in dual-wield enough without getting a penalty on thaco.

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 4:46 pm

The info on the dual wielding proficiencies is shown in the small box in the right hand lowe corner when you assign a star to "two weapon style".

TC, Geert