Umpteenth verse same as the first!

[galraen]

So like other corrupt governments before them the Irish deal with the fiasco caused by the banks by robbing the poor.

Too afraid of offending the people who they rely on for bribes and back handers by introducing penalty taxes on bankers, they reduce the minimum wage.

Frightened of losing their cumshaw from their rich backers by raising corporation tax, they cut welfare instead.

What do the main opposition party, Fine Gael, have to say? Nothing, because they too are scared of offending their paymasters.

Brian Cowen, Brian Lenihan and Fianna Fail will undoubtedly be booted out of office shortly, but will anything change? Not a chance, one bunch of corrupt politicians will simply be replaced by another bunch.

They say a people get the government they deserve; what sins we all must have committed in previous lives to be ruled by such blackguards as we all are one might ask?

Is it not the past, or previous lives we're paying for, but being stupid enough to vote for the same parties time and time again, no matter what they've done to us in the past?

for 40 years I've voted Liberal, only to have been completely betrayed by Calamity Clegg and his Quisling associates; I'll never vote for them again, ever. So why do people continue to vote or parties that have betrayed them? Damned if I can understand it.

[Stworca]

A short briefing on Poland :

Our last president, L. Kaczyński, who died in plane crash 10th IV 2010 was a poor president, aswell as a one dimensional, not too bright person. His biggest achievements were :
- Not knowing any language other than polish,
- Not knowing polish well enough to make it in today's high school
- Not knowing the anthem
- Hate campaign against Russia and Germany. At times in "in your face" style.
- No.1 selfish politics regarding UE.
- Declined all major reforms (18 in total) which would help Poland financialy
- Made an official list of people he wishes to destroy (ha!)
- His famous quotes still are too embarassing to write
- Opposed gay movements, in-vitro, preservatives.. in short, everything that is not christian

Then he died, and became a hero who wasn't equal, but far superior to polish kings of old. Including Jan III Sobieski, "Lion of Lechistan" and savior of european christendom.. Anyone who criticised our ex-president was called a traitor, anyone who worshipped him, a patriot. Then his brother started in campaign for president, and got a whooping 47% of the votes! with a short movie of his brothers family crying, and a bunch of people saying that Jaroslav K. is now the only chance for Poland...

After he (thankfully) lost, he started a campaign of such hate, that i've not seen in my life, and heard of such only during WWII. Continously blaming Russia for the crash, his political opposition for beign atheists that want to sell everything that is polish. There was an almost two month long campaign against the removal of a cross, in front of a palace in Warshau. Where J. Kaczyński and his followers were marching with torches , singing patriotic songs from 1795-1918 (where poland did not exist), and shouting "down with communism" with full support of the church..
The irony is that its the Kaczyński brothers who were doing everything they could to hurt the name of old politics who got rid of communism over the years.

Our current president, Komorowski, on the other hand is afraid of making any movements, any reforms, change anything. Unlike Kaczyński, he will not take us back to the dark ages, but we won't make a step forward either.

Toss in clergy having control over almost everything, and pro-clergy politicians winning almost ALL the region-elections (which are far more important for the people than president ones) due to our lovely "Vote for XXX or Christ will send you to hell" campaigns in churches. Young people with 4 languages and bachelor degrees work as broomers in supermarkets. The lowest acceptable pay is at the same time the most common one, and odds all favourite "You're an idiot, and you got kicked out of ground school, but i still will hire you as a lawyer.. son"

With lack of jobs, as bankrupt as it gets health care, very high % of people beign on social and state pensions. Even more old people. Building a Jesus statue bigger than in Rio, to "please the god" ofcourse for the tax money. The hole in our treasure will only keep growing.

And instead of doing something about it, we'll still live only with what is happening to this cursed cross in Warshau, or whatever else the media feed the idiots with.

Ireland seems like a paradise to me, Galraen.

The only thing we still don't have, are muslims getting offended by everything.. and roads. With this beign said : Hello euro 2012. Train from Gliwice (near Katowice) to Cracow (104 km) takes 2;40 hours. Enjoy your ride.

Now if J. Kaczyński died in an assassination, he'd be a hero too, and if there was a third brother, he too would get 47% votes.

And while this doesn't answer your question as to why people still vote on politicians that betrayed them, i hope it gave you an idea about how bad people CAN be. The media and the church / moskee / shed influence people enough to make them forget about EVERYTHING they believe in. Toss in family demanding you do this or that, otherwise they'll expell you. Toss in many, many other things that will either influence or FORCE your decision. So even if liberals betrayed the country, with a good enough campaign and support of some big fishes (in poland no fish is bigger than clergy) people WILL vote on them. Because people are retarded OR people don't have a choice OR.. well, no, that's realy all.

Edit : Now, Since im an atheist in a country which would burn atheists alive if laws didn't forbid it, i know 4 languages and still can't find a job, had my beloved one die in my arms.. and many other things that could fit that list perfectly. See WHY i don't write in SYM?

Regards

[endboss]

We need more austerity measures because helping the disadvantaged and government spending is obviously what got us into this mess!

[Curry]

Toss in many, many other things that will either influence or FORCE your decision. So even if liberals betrayed the country, with a good enough campaign and support of some big fishes (in poland no fish is bigger than clergy) people WILL vote on them. Because people are retarded OR people don't have a choice OR.. well, no, that's realy all.

Edit : Now, Since im an atheist in a country which would burn atheists alive if laws didn't forbid it, i know 4 languages and still can't find a job, had my beloved one die in my arms.. and many other things that could fit that list perfectly. See WHY i don't write in SYM?

It's like this everywhere; it has been scientifically proven that people like to vote those politicians who are already popular, as people like to "be on the winning side". Also, people tend to choose who to vote based on ideology rather than individual issues, so it's not so uncommon that people vote against what's good for them (for example, recently in the USA, these Tea Party guys who are poor are voting against tax raises for richest 2%, or something like that).

Here where I live, in Finland, the situation is somewhat similar to yours, although a bit different in some ways. Here the President is an atheist, who had to join the State Church when taking the office because the President is the head of the Church. However, it's very unlikely that any religious candidate would ever win. In fact, if a politician said on TV that he/she was "spoken to by the God", it would probably mean Game Over for that candidate's political career. Recently there was a TV debate where a Christian politician said she condemns same-sex marriage, which then lead to massive amounts of people leaving the Church. Usually around 1% of the population leave the Church yearly but now it's something like 2-3%. The whole atmosphere is very anti-religion but still things don't change. People still keep voting for the same people and there basically no social reforms and the economy sucks. Every government for the last two decades or so has stated that "major issues are for the next government to decide", and then in 4 years you get the same thing again.

[galraen]

Is it really about ideology, or do too many people treat politics like it was a team sport?

I used to know a lady who was an intelligent woman most of the time, but at times I swore that she only supported the Tories because their colour was blue, and had Pompey (she was a fanatical supporter) worn red I suspect she would have just as staunchly supported Labour!

Back in the 80's we used to have long debates over government policy, and she was against virtually everything the Tories did, and didn't like Maggie Thatcher to boot, but come election time still went out and voted for 'the boys in blue', and she was far from alone in following politics in that way.

Most people I suspect don't give a toss about politics, and when the news is on go out and make tea or coffee so they don't miss the important stuff like Strictly Come Dancing or the X-Factor. Come election time they just vote the same way mum or dad brought them up to vote.

[Fljotsdale]

As galraen said, most people seem to vote for the same party mom and dad supported, and don't give it a thought. My own first vote was Conservative, because that is the way my parents and grandparents on both sides voted.
By the next election I had become determinedly Labour. In recent years I have voted Green - partly because I am very much in favour of environmentalism, and partly because I'll be damned before I vote for any of the other buggers.

Stworca - my husband was born near Katowice. Is that where you live?

Also, one of the things I've always liked about my country (uk) is it's generally sceptical and atheistic attitude. Until recently, when we have had a mild outbreak of 'christianity'. I think it may be in response to the surge of imported non-christian religions, rather than any actual increase in belief.
And I was disgusted when Tony Blair introduced religion into politics, even if if his most obvious 'conversion' came after he left office.

[Stworca]

Stworca - my husband was born near Katowice. Is that where you live?

I live in many differend places. Quite a few countries. On top of that all my grand-grandparents came from differend countries, and i dont live in either one of their origin ones But yes, i occasionaly pop by to my birth place, which in fact was near Katowice.

Also, one of the things I've always liked about my country (uk) is it's generally sceptical and atheistic attitude. Until recently, when we have had a mild outbreak of 'christianity'. I think it may be in response to the surge of imported non-christian religions, rather than any actual increase in belief.
And I was disgusted when Tony Blair introduced religion into politics, even if if his most obvious 'conversion' came after he left office.

So i am to trust that mr Pat Condell is wrong? I must confess that he was my only source of information about religion v politics in the UK

Regards!

[galraen]

So i am to trust that Mr Pat Condell is wrong? I must confess that he was my only source of information about religion v politics in the UK

You should trust that Patrick Condell is a complete erm, sphincter, who will say and do anything to get maximum publicity for himself, irrespective of whether there's any truth in it or not. He's a complete fascist one minute and posing as an anti-establishment guru the next; don't believe anything he says without checking at least three independent sources first.


the following is typical Condell:

"It seems to me that fundamentalist Christians, jihadist Muslims and settlement-building Jews are causing more than their share of trouble in the world. World events are being driven by people with apocalyptic delusions. While here in Britain a paralysing liberal guilt allows religious bigots to use intimidation and violence to stamp out free speech."

Now as it happens I agree with the first sentence, but the last sentence is total gob****e! He mixes fact and fantasy, lies and truth to drive his own agenda, the problem is apart from being rabidly anti-Islamic, no one can figure out exactly what his agenda is. Apart from getting the most publicity and money that he can for himself!

[Stworca]

He mixes fact and fantasy, lies and truth to drive his own agenda, the problem is apart from being rabidly anti-Islamic, no one can figure out exactly what his agenda is. Apart from getting the most publicity and money that he can for himself!

In short, he would be a perfect candidate for president in most countries in EU. I must confess that i took his words as believable, because Holland is having problems with imigration from the muslim countries, who slowly gain monopoly in almost every day-to-day service (at least in The Hague) and massively influence the gov. Muslim women are treated like crap even in this lovely EU country, and things can turn much worse realy, realy fast as our beloved Beatrix Wilhelmina Armgard van Oranje-Nassau, who surely has the power to control almost every citizen of Holland (due to sheer amount of police and civil-police in this small, submerged country) still allows not only it, but also tolerates an unimaginable sized black market going on.

Noone wondered why would a born dutchman try to kill her two (?) years ago during a parade?

..and then there was the murder of anti-imigration politician a few years back.


But that is a story for another thread

I shall look more deeply into UK situation once i find some time, after all i plan on living there in a couple of years AND i want to make up for my ignorance. But my book is keeping my whole attention at this time.

[galraen]

Certainly some countries really are having problems with rabid anti-Islamic groups. In France the main anti-Islamic group seems to be the government!

As usual, much of it is fuelled by disinformation being circulated by unscrupulous wannabee politicians. Geert Wilders is a typical example, and thank god we banned him! It was probably banning his fellow rascist that prompted the outburst by Condell I quoted earlier.

Unfortunately some of the Polish that have come to this country haven't taken the trouble to try and find out the sort of society they were moving to. Last year I was loudly lectured in a South London supermarket by a Pole on how we had been foolish to allow all 'these immigrants' into the country. When I pointed out that he was an immigrant himself he looked perplexed and said 'But I'm white!', at which point I gave him a piece of my mind. The crazy thing was most of the people in the shop were black, and it didn't seem to occur to him that he was courting trouble. I guess if you're a white supremacist you think you can handle anything a mere black can throw at you. I feared for his safety to be honest, if he keeps that up he's likely to return to Poland in an ambulance, at best!

[Stworca]

If it makes you feel any better (i cannot imagine how could it, but still) the example you've mentioned is something pretty common. No, i don't mean racism per se, but Poles hate everything that sticks out from the rest REGARDLESS of how small thing makes them special.

I for one was hunted by whole groups of 'bright and tolerant co-students' for having long hair, and after two years of constant violence which not even the teaching staff cared about, i had to turn to the police for restraining orders.

The best part was, that if i god forbid got a payback on one of them, the next time we'd meet five more people would share his view that long hair mean that i am homosexual, and homosexuals are spawns of satan.. THUS it is not only justified, but absolutely required to eradicate them.

It sure makes me proud of beign from Poland

On the other hand, i must confess that kids whos parents earn 1200 zl a month (~400 euro) TOGETHER minus the rent, gas, electicity etc.. and get drunk for the remaining silly amounts of cash.. cannot be raised any better. Especialy when we're talking about the average poor Polish family of 3+ children. It may be harsh to say, but my opinion based on observations is : The poorer, the more children.

No, not all families have it THIS hard, not even half, nor 30%, but enough to make a huge difference.

There is a black humor joke floating around in Poland

-My son, i lost my job, i'm going on social.
-Does it mean that you'll stop drinking?
-No, it means you'll eat less.

However, even tho the unacceptable behaviour of Poles can be somewhat justified by the above.. i still try to not be associated with them. Not because i am ashamed, but because i would be treated much worse than as a "kind young gentleman of unknown, probably scandinavian origin" that most people in holand take me for. Hmm

Regards

[Fljotsdale]

I live in many differend places. Quite a few countries. On top of that all my grand-grandparents came from differend countries, and i dont live in either one of their origin ones But yes, i occasionaly pop by to my birth place, which in fact was near Katowice.

Gosh, so you may even be a relative of my husband and children! Wouldn't that be amusing? His mother's family also were not originally Polish, and his father was only known to his mother...

So i am to trust that mr Pat Condell is wrong? I must confess that he was my only source of information about religion v politics in the UK

Regards!

Eh... well, most indigenous Brits claim a religion if you ask 'em, but have virtually no idea what it's about, and the vast majority have never even entered a church, let alone opened a bible. They behave in all ways like atheists but claim a pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die type of vague fairytailish belief. Like an insurance policy without paying the premiums. :laugh:

Just read Stworca and galraens comments above about Polish racism and it made me laugh almost hysterically - my dear departed was also incredibly racist. He hated Jews, gypsies, Catholics (he was Lutheran), Pakistanis, West Indians, Indians, Americans... you name, he hated it - and the poor bugger married me - a lapsed Catholic (now atheist), who likes Americans (individually, not collectively), and had friends who were Jewish and Indian. ;D