A cenobite

ahs · Post by **ahs** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:08 am

Hi,

I was wondering about creating a cenobite char based on a necro wiz class. This would be a pure painbringer with no evil intends (like a Pinhead of Hellraiser series). This char would focus on only or mainly on necro-based spells. And here is a request to mr_sir, because I saw him being interested in necros, could you give any pieces of advice of how this char would look like?
Aligment would be either Neutral or Chaotic Neutral.

I was thinking of:
S: 8 D: 16 C: 12 I:16 W:10 Ch: 8 . Any suggestion on feats would be appreciated.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:17 am

Whenever I've played necromancers I've always tended to go for chaotic evil, choose the necromancer spell school and then try to only use buffing spells and necro spells throughout the game. Another option is to use a sorceror and pick only buffing and necro spells when choosing your spells. Palemaster is also an option but I've preferred to go for a pure class rather than multiclass in the past.

ahs · Post by **ahs** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:45 am

The necromancer I've been thinking of is focused on debilitating foes and after inflicting serious negative effects "fatality'em". I say wizard would have a greater RP aspect than sorc. Pale Master is not an option here, because PM is focused rather on undeads, and the necro I'm talkin about is a paingiver.
Correct me if I'm wron'. but NWN2 has rather poor selection of necro school spells. When I finally come up with the overall picture of my char I'll share it to the publics (polonism here ; >).

What about npcs? Is there a Neutral npc leaning towards evil deeds than stayin Neutral or Good? I'm thinkin of stickin with Bishop and the Warlock guy. Anyone else would suit my playstyle?

Last q, is dex needed for this type o' wacko ?

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:44 am

1st level: Ray of Enfeeblement (..good for lowering opponents attack numbers) and Shield
2nd level: Ghoul Touch & Death Armor, also Scorching Ray and Invisibility
3rd level: ***Vampric Touch***, Improved Mage Armor and Displacement
4th level: Enervation, Evards Black Tentacles, Assay Resistance
5th level: Cloudkill and Greater Fireburst
6th level: Disintegrate, Circle of Death, Ethereal Visage
7th level: Bigby's Grasping Hand
8th level: Horrid Wilting and Polar Ray
9th level: Bigby's Crushing Hand

The big one here is Vampric Touch, particularly EMPOWERED. (..or Improved Empowered.)

Futher, IF you can carefully select your spells a Sorcerer build would be preferable (..for the way it interacts with Empower and Extend spell).

Because Empower spell is so important I'd recommend:

Arcane Scholar for at least 3 levels for Improved Empower Spell (..and latter all 10), AND
EK for the improvement in attack numbers for touch and ranged touch attacks.

Scribe Scroll is a must at higher levels nearing your selection of 9th level spells. (..it allows you to fire-off 9th level spells from scrolls leaving all of your 9th level slots for improved empower castings.)

Also consider Improved Critical Melee and Ranged Touch Attack.

ahs · Post by **ahs** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:08 pm

Were here props I would have given you one ; )

Anyway, thanks for so nice a feedback. So you suggest me to take a sorc instead of wiz? It is true sorc is more versatile(?) if you know what to pick.
Let the game begin ; )

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:03 pm

ahs wrote:
It is true sorc is more versatile(?) if you know what to pick.
Let the game begin ; )

As long as you get the spells correct, yes. Plan them out with Vordan's Hero Creator (..and write them down).

Note that you can still cast other arcane spells from scroll or wand if available, so it isn't like they are removed from potential casting.

Also there is no reason NOT to select just one level of Palemaster. Save up 5 skill points before selection though, so you can use them for Move Silently (..which works well with Invisibility). ..usually character level 7 is where I select the class.

Race: Human (for the extra skill point per level, extra feat, *look*, and no level penalty)

Make the guy with white skin and black eyes, bald and the face with the tatoo. Tall, but skinny - THAT should have a cinobite look..

8/14/14/12/8/18
at level up always increase Charisma..
Familiar: Rat (fortitude saves)

Feats (CORRECTED):
1st level: Veteran, Weapon Proficiency Martial, Extend Spell
3rd level: Weapon Finnesse
6th level: Empower Spell
9th level: Skill Focus Spellcraft
12th level: Blind Fight
15th level: Improved Critical Melee touch attack (..OR ranged touch attack depending on your preference).
18th level: Scribe Scroll.

Skills: *except* for the level with Palemaster (where you should add-in Heal and Move Silently), every level should maximize skills Concentration and Spellcraft. Remember to save-up on skill points for several levels *before* the Palemaster class level to get your 5 additional carry-over points for use at level 7.

1-6 Sorcerer
7 Palemaster
8-9 EK
10-12 Arcane Scholar
13-20 EK
(..Arcane Scholar from there and finally back to Sorcerer.)

Arcane Scholar not only gives you Improved Emopower, but it also gives you Maximise spell. With a Sorcerer this means that:

WithOUT wasting spell-slots for other spells you can cast a spell like Vampiric Touch from three different spell levels:
1. Base spell level (3rd level in this case).
2. Empowered spell level (5th or 4th level with Improved Empower in this case).
3. Maximized spell level (6th level in this case).

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:05 pm

ahs wrote: What about npcs? Is there a Neutral npc leaning towards evil deeds than stayin Neutral or Good? I'm thinkin of stickin with Bishop and the Warlock guy. Anyone else would suit my playstyle?

IIRC Qara is neutral and she definately has a sadistic side to her and responds positively to evil deeds and shows of power rather than good or kind deeds.

ahs · Post by **ahs** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:49 am

mr_sir wrote:IIRC Qara is neutral and she definately has a sadistic side to her and responds positively to evil deeds and shows of power rather than good or kind deeds.

another sorc in a team? hm why not xd

Why add EK prestige class?

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:30 am

Another option may be the construct - a mindless thrall for you to command

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:46 am

Hehe. Clive Barker fan, are you? I appreciate your need to roleplay, I read too much about build efficiency on the NWN2 forums. Especially from Scottg, if he can take a joke.

As for roleplaying suggestions.. I wouldn't leave out that your character would have to be Planar rather than Undead. A spirit/demon posessing a mutilated corpse.. it's one of those boundary cases.

Necromancers get undead property status, more or less. Perhaps a Tiefling Necromancer, or some other custom race. In the nwn1 PRC there were a bunch of feats that added things like necrotic cysts and other creepy/mutilation stuff. Not visually of course, only ability-wise. I don't know if the PRC has made a smooth transistion to NWN2 yet either, but it may be worth a look.

From what Hellraiser movies I saw, I don't recall any of the monstrocities using magic of any kind. I think something involving divination or perhaps Eldrich Invocation was involved, but that was about it. It might be the most logical suggestion to use a necromancer, but I am sceptical it will work out for your roleplaying needs unless you take Scottg's approach with EK levels. NWN1 had whips for weapons, that would have been a good addition to some kind of fighter.

(whips get the disarm feat for free)

I don't know what else to suggest here. I found build efficiency always ruined any ideas for roleplay I had. I would try hard to stick with your original ideas, despite how difficult they may be to enact. The further you veer away and take suggestions, the harder it is to not be obsessed by statistical details and have any of that roleplay cake.

Good luck!

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:34 pm

Tricky wrote:Especially from Scottg, if he can take a joke.

Well, I do remember the cinobites proclaiming to:

"tear your soul apart.."

-as if they were "feeding" off of this ..i.e. not simply a matter of pleasure for them, but a *need*. That makes me think of Vampiric feast.

The chain holding stuff looked magical.. and mostly focused one at a time. In their own way Evards and the Bigby's seem to match-up.

BTW, the EK class is there to improve you BAB for touch attacks.

ahs · Post by **ahs** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:50 pm

Taking SF: concentration is useless since you get it free from EK.

To quote the cenobites well-known sentence : "To bring pleasure beyond the senses" and this is what I am goin to do for everyone who steps into my zone.

How should I name this bastard? Pinhead would be way not-original. Maybe Elliot? ; >

Tricky to be honest I'm not a fan of Barkley's, but I do like the movie series, well, first 3 movies were entertaining, the further the worse unfortunately. I first saw the movie when I was 8, didn't finish this cuz mom entered the room and said "HELL NO! Turn it off" I got pissed. Tho I'm 23 I sometimes like to forget myself and watch ol'skool movies as well as playing some rpgs, thus I improving my Eng skills (I play eng-only rpgs, because polish translations suck - apart from BG2, but the Witcher MUST be played in polish! - a tip from me, learn pl) I have sidetracked a lil bit, I hope you won't find it irritating.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:53 pm

ahs wrote:Taking SF: concentration is useless since you get it free from EK.

Indeed!

I'd forgotten about that.

I've corrected it above..

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:10 pm

I should also mention that perhaps a Warlock is a better class for a cinobite.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:30 pm

ahs wrote: Tricky to be honest I'm not a fan of Barkley's, but I do like the movie series, well, first 3 movies were entertaining, the further the worse unfortunately. I first saw the movie when I was 8, didn't finish this cuz mom entered the room and said "HELL NO! Turn it off" I got pissed. Tho I'm 23 I sometimes like to forget myself and watch ol'skool movies as well as playing some rpgs, thus I improving my Eng skills (I play eng-only rpgs, because polish translations suck - apart from BG2, but the Witcher MUST be played in polish! - a tip from me, learn pl) I have sidetracked a lil bit, I hope you won't find it irritating.

Hehe.. sorry, I'll be way to busy learning Norwegian for the next few years to add a fourth.

Kind of the same story here.. I watched a few around the same age while my parents were gone. Considering Gremlins scared me, Hellraiser had quite the effect on me a few years later. Good times.

I feel like seeing the old ones again.

BTW, when thinking of the weapon arsenal in NWN2, nothing comes over as quite so sadistic or sado masochistic as the whip from NWN1. I can't believe they didn't include it, I'd really try and look for a custom build one for NWN2 if you can. Combined with weapon finesse, a dex/charisma warlock could have great use of that. That it does less damage is ok, unarmed opponents are quite harmless.