Party members: your favorite groups

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:25 pm

Whether it's because they fit together as a fighting crew, or because you like the way they interact, which groups get your nod, and why?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:34 pm

I went with the default group of Alistair, Mabari War Dog, and Morrigan. The interactions between the Mabari and Morrigan are pretty funny, since she can seemingly understand him. Same with her and Alistair. After I started romancing her, their dialog went into the gutter and a lot of it is simply hilarious.

Also, I thought it was hilarious that the Mabari could not only bring you items that he finds but he can also find a landmark to designate as his own territory, receiving a combat bonus at that!

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:39 pm

Great minds, and all that. I was just thinking of making this very same thread.

I was going to go with the standard Alistair/Morrigan/Mabari set up, but it got to be that Morrigan's approval rating was dropping pretty rapidly. Aside from that my group direly needed a healer, so I took Wynne into the team at the first opportunity. Wynne can't put out the numbers like Morrigan can, but now that I can actually keep Alistair alive I think it's a fair trade.

The only thing I miss are the Morrigan-Alistair dialogs, so every so often when exploring a new town I'll bring Morri in while I do my shopping and such. Y'know, just to see what they say to each other.

Surprisingly, Alistair and Zevran got along decently for the short time I had them both along. Zev strikes me as a very Haer'Dalis-like character, so I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get through the romance on a later play through. We'll see.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:30 pm

I'm currently going through with Alistair and Morrigan (as they're central characters, it seems) and switching out between the Mabari and Leliana. Haven't decided if I'll romance Morrigan or Leliana yet; my decisions tend to make Leliana happy, but I make enough decisions that also make Morrigan happy, so I've got pretty high influence with them both so far.

Alistair and Morrigan have some great interactions, and the Mabari is good with everyone. Morrigan and Leliana seem to dislike each other rather intensely, based on some interaction.

Ragin Cajun · Post by **Ragin Cajun** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:28 pm

I got about 18 hours in with my mage. However, got disgusted with all the missed doors/chests that none of the rogues in the party could open (how does a level 9 rogue not even have stealing skills when you pick him up?).

So, I rerolled a dwarf rogue and plan to go with Alistar, Wynne, my rogue and Morrigon for the mage power and think that will be a pretty solid party.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:57 pm

I got about 18 hours in with my mage. However, got disgusted with all the missed doors/chests that none of the rogues in the party could open (how does a level 9 rogue not even have stealing skills when you pick him up?).

A nice editor would deal quickly with that. I suspect we'll see one pop up soon, because reality bends to desire.

Does it bother anybody else that the number of party NPCs is so limited compared to the BG series?

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:11 pm

fable wrote:A nice editor would deal quickly with that. I suspect we'll see one pop up soon, because reality bends to desire.

Does it bother anybody else that the number of party NPCs is so limited compared to the BG series?

I said as much to Bloodstalker, who then pointed out to me that KoTOR only allowed two companions. Frankly, for some reason it feels like I only have two with the dog around - he doesn't much register as an NPC with me, I guess, even if he is one.

But I suppose the game is supposed to be about strategy. And let's face it: In Baldur's Gate, short of playing on the most brutal difficulty, it wasn't hard to just swarm your enemies with your three mages and backstab-happy thief and buffed up war tanks. With fewer NPCs things require a lot more forethought and planning.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:31 pm

Aqua-chan wrote:I said as much to Bloodstalker, who then pointed out to me that KoTOR only allowed two companions.

Oh, no, that's not what I meant: not the number of companions you could take with you at a time, but the number that exist within the game. They seem small next to the BG1 and BG2 lot.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:57 pm

fable wrote:Oh, no, that's not what I meant: not the number of companions you could take with you at a time, but the number that exist within the game. They seem small next to the BG1 and BG2 lot.

Ah, I see.

Perhaps you're right, but how well developed were some of those NPCs? Characters like Branwen and Valygar were pretty insubstantial, whether it was due to just a lack of focus or rushing deadlines. So far I've used Alistair, Morrigan, Wynne and Shale; not even half the number of party members available, and they all have developed personalities. I'd rather have fewer good ones than just a horde of warm bodies to fill the roster.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:25 pm

Aqua-chan wrote:Ah, I see.

Perhaps you're right, but how well developed were some of those NPCs? Characters like Branwen and Valygar were pretty insubstantial, whether it was due to just a lack of focus or rushing deadlines. So far I've used Alistair, Morrigan, Wynne and Shale; not even half the number of party members available, and they all have developed personalities. I'd rather have fewer good ones than just a horde of warm bodies to fill the roster.

It just seems as though there's very little to select from, removing not just a nice element of added flavor to the game, but of strategy, as well. In BG2, you could decide between two clerics with very different styles, at least three tanks, several thieves, a pair of druids, etc. You want a cleric in DA:O? We've got one for you! (And that's what Wynne is, basically.) You want an attack mage? We've got one for you, too! And so it goes.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:58 pm

I'll admit that I have taken Wynne instead of Morrigan based on her healing abilities (and my disappointment in Morrigan's shapeshifts). However, I don't feel like my game is detrimentally affected - I traded one good character for another.

On the other hand, Morrigan already comes with one rank in Herbalism and can learn more, so if you need a healer she can make potions. It seems like this game has no restrictions in how many healing potions you can spam at a time, so it's not as though if you don't want Wynne along you're stuck high and dry. There are alternatives.

Ragin Cajun · Post by **Ragin Cajun** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:58 pm

I notice that Morrigon doesn't shape shift on her own (not for me she hasn't). And I've tried her spider and bear forms and wasn't impressed by her abilities in either form.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:39 pm

Aqua-chan wrote:On the other hand, Morrigan already comes with one rank in Herbalism and can learn more, so if you need a healer she can make potions. It seems like this game has no restrictions in how many healing potions you can spam at a time, so it's not as though if you don't want Wynne along you're stuck high and dry. There are alternatives.

Yes, but not the number in the BG series, which was my only point.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:44 am

I don't think the number of characters is an issue. As Aqua-chan pointed out, while BG has more characters, not all of them are well developed. From what I've seen so far, the group members do posses a personality and develop (so far at least).

On the matter of having of choosing a cleric type character, well, you're free to have any mage be a healer. Not a spirit healer exactly, but a healer nonetheless. As such, you're also free to train Wynne as a combat mage. Keep in mind that Planescape: Torment had even less characters and a single cleric choice, which could only be a healer and nothing else.

Overall, I'm not disappointed with the number nor with the way they were made.

Gauda · Post by **Gauda** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:06 am

fable wrote:Yes, but not the number in the BG series, which was my only point.

I agree with you, particularly from the strategic point of view, I would love to try to bring two healers along, because one rarely cuts it without lyrium and health potion. Admittedly, I think you can make morrigan a spirit healer at level 14 though, if you unlock that. Oddly enough, the NPCs of BG2 seemed almost deeper than the few (I've met so far, but some perusing indicates that there are only two NPCs left to meet) in DAO. Anyway, my favorite team from a right now is: Alaistar for his tanking abilities, Zevran for his dual wielding backstabbing awesomeness and Wynne for keeping us alive. Right now I'm more considered with how they fight together than how they interact.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:33 am

fable wrote:Yes, but not the number in the BG series, which was my only point.

I'm not trying to be testy.

Just saying that from a developer's standpoint, it's about resources. These NPCs never seem to shut up (which is entirely a good thing), and you can count on Character A having at least several dialogs with Character B, and then some personal quips. In BG1 you could play for hours and never see an inter-party dialog or interjection. I see this as a strong improvement to the old games.

In truth we could easily have had a BG1 repeat of picking party members based on alignment or the "standard" group. Now in that instance I would have been very disappointed.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:53 am

Aqua-chan wrote:I'm not trying to be testy. Just saying that from a developer's standpoint, it's about resources. These NPCs never seem to shut up (which is entirely a good thing), and you can count on Character A having at least several dialogs with Character B, and then some personal quips. In BG1 you could play for hours and never see an inter-party dialog or interjection. I see this as a strong improvement to the old games.

Given the limitations of the time, I think that the BG1/2 mods that add interparty dialog did a fantastic job. PS:T was better still. As I haven't played through DA:O yet, I have no idea if it will surpass this part of the old games or not, but it seems to be doing as fine a job right now in that respect. I just want more party NPCs to select from.

The game modding tools will probably result in that, though I'm not sure if I'll download any mods if Bioware maintains a tight rein on the delivery mechanism.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:23 pm

I haven't picked up DA:O yet, but I've been selectively reading threads to see reactions.
In terms of party NPCs, I seem to recall that PS:T had a pretty limited selection (seven to be exact), and of those a couple (Ignus and Vhailor) weren't very well developed personality wise.

I'll see when I play DA:O how it compares with BG2 and PS:T, but as I said, this is what I remember from the latter game.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:31 pm

dragon wench wrote:I haven't picked up DA:O yet, but I've been selectively reading threads to see reactions.
In terms of party NPCs, I seem to recall that PS:T had a pretty limited selection (seven to be exact), and of those a couple (Ignus and Vhailor) weren't very well developed personality wise.

Yes, PS:T was very limited in sheer number of companions: I agree. My only point was that BIS did a superlative job on fleshing out their characters. (Ignus, too, though not from within his character; you had to get all those details from others or from your bubbling memories of the past.) For sheer vivid characters, there's been nothing like that. So far, I've seen very few in DA:O, and while Alaistair is well done, I think Morrigan is pretty garish. She comes across more like someone trying to write the dialog for a wyrd, than as comments arising naturally from a person. But again, my opinions may change as I progress.

Ragin Cajun · Post by **Ragin Cajun** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:19 pm

I'm not sure 'more' NPCs are the answer. I mean I'm only one stop into the main quest line and I already have two mages, two rogues and two warriors, plus a war dog to choose from. Seems that I have duplication already and I haven't even brought in several of the NPCs into the group to utilize.