How do you define "Native English Speakers?"

[Maharlika]

I am about to apply for a Master's Degree program here in Bangkok. One of the university's requirements is that I must take the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language). I told the guy at the other end of the phone that I'm supposed to be exempted from this exam since English was never considered a foreign language to me.

In fact, English is my first language. I practically grew up with Sesame Street (and the Electric Company) and I only started to learn to speak Filipino when I was six. We speak English at home.

The guy at the other end said that only "native speakers" need not take the TOEFL. Obviously he was referring to people from the U.S., Canada, U.K., Australia and New Zealand.

Does a "native English speaker" have to be a national of the aforementioned countries, or must it also include individuals whose first language is English but is not a citizen of these countries?

In the Philippines (perhaps just like Singapore and India?), English is never considered as a foreign language. It is a second language.

I'm sure that I could pass the exam with flying colors, but what ticks me off is having to go through the hassles (not to mention having to spend money) of having to take the exam.

Does my argument hold water?

Please enlighten me on this.

Thanks!

[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: Maharlika ]

[Omar]

If you are born and raised in a country where English is the official language (and has been in the past) then you are a native.
The rules likely assume that a native speaker knows his own language better than someone who has learned that language as a second language...

In Pakistan, for example, the official language is Urdu, which is only used by about 3 % of the population ! English is a "second" official language but is used commonly on the street, in institutions, etc....

On of the many marks left by the good old British Empire, the Empire where the sun never sets, LMAO

[Shadow Sandrock]

Whoever speaks English as their first language is a native English speaker. Just like a Spanish child growing up in the US with fluent-English-and-Spanish-speaking parents will likely learn English first and Spanish shortly after, you should get the same benefits as the Spanish child. I personally don't feel you should have to take the exam

And by the way, your english when you post here is great! I don't see how he could not see you as a Native English speaker.

[Shadow Sandrock]

(kudos to Omar)

Oops, I kinda... err forgot you lived in the Philippines for a second there...

Just explain calmly to the guy that this exam is unnecessary for you and that you should be exempt from it... in English

[Maharlika]

Originally posted by Shadow Sandrock:
<STRONG>(kudos to Omar)

Oops, I kinda... err forgot you lived in the Philippines for a second there...

Just explain calmly to the guy that this exam is unnecessary for you and that you should be exempt from it... in English </STRONG>

...and you thought I lived where? *no, Sandy, don't you dare answer that question! *

Thanks for the compliment, though.

It's funny coz this guy had no idea that I was accepted to teach English in their university. I just declined later on after finding out that what they offer is way way less than what I'm getting now. Having finished only a Bachelor's Degree had something to do with that.

@Omar: your point on the term "native" speaker does seem to be the other guy's reason. It has valid points too.

[Sailor Saturn]

Originally posted by Maharlika:
<STRONG>I am about to apply for a Master's Degree program here in Bangkok. One of the university's requirements is that I must take the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language). I told the guy at the other end of the phone that I'm supposed to be exempted from this exam since English was never considered a foreign language to me.

In fact, English is my first language. I practically grew up with Sesame Street (and the Electric Company) and I only started to learn to speak Filipino when I was six. We speak English at home.

The guy at the other end said that only "native speakers" need not take the TOEFL. Obviously he was referring to people from the U.S., Canada, U.K., Australia and New Zealand.

Does a "native English speaker" have to be a national of the aforementioned countries, or must it also include individuals whose first language is English but is not a citizen of these countries?

In the Philippines (perhaps just like Singapore and India?), English is never considered as a foreign language. It is a second language.

I'm sure that I could pass the exam with flying colors, but what ticks me off is having to go through the hassles (not to mention having to spend money) of having to take the exam.

Does my argument hold water?

Please enlighten me on this.

Thanks!</STRONG>

Well, for one, what do you consider to be your "native tongue"?

One problem with if they didn't have a set thing(such as people from such-and-such countries) for the def of "native english speakers" is that there would be people who would claim to be NESes to save time and money when they really aren't.

Another note, I wonder how many "native english speakers"(such as Americans and English) would pass that test.

[GandalfgalTTV]

I'm not a native english speaker, but most of my thoughts, writing and reading are in English. Although finding the right words for the right ocassion doesn't come as easily in English as it does in Dutch(my native tongue). What I'm trying too say is this, although english is the language I use the most, that does not mean that my english is better than my dutch (They're equaly horrible ).

BTW1: And english isn't always english, I like Oxford english, and comparing that too american english... , well there are slight differences between the two.

BTW2: In Holland english isn't considered too be a foreign language either, in my second( and final year) of corporate ICT half of the lessons where given in english.

[Shadow Sandrock]

Originally posted by Gandalfgal The Talking Variant:
<STRONG>...in my second( and final year) of corporate ICT half of the lessons where given in english.</STRONG>

Guys in the USA: that's the equivalent of us taking a Calculus course entirely in Spanish

[fable]

Originally posted by Shadow Sandrock:
<STRONG>Guys in the USA: that's the equivalent of us taking a Calculus course entirely in Spanish </STRONG>

Calculus is infinitely worse than Spanish.

[Sailor Saturn]

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>Calculus is infinitely worse than Spanish. </STRONG>

Alert the media! There's something fable and I agree on!

[Shadow Sandrock]

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
<STRONG> Alert the media! There's something fable and I agree on! </STRONG>

*alerts the media*

[prateek]

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>Calculus is infinitely worse than Spanish. </STRONG>

and calculus IN spanish much be worse than plain ol' calculus (unless u're fluent)