I'm getting a blank screen when I click your link, @Yshania.
New York to Santa Domingo: 4 buildings on the ground on fire. Crash was very close to JFK and takeoff, which doesn't make it sound like a hijacking. Still, everybody's just tapdancing around the absence of news. We'll just have to see how it plays out.
[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: fable ]
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Plane was supposedly on fire, en route to Dominican Republic, when it crashed into a residentual area in Queens. They are saying they have no indication so far that terrorist activity involved, but they have closed 3 airports in the area.
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Check out [url="http://www.cbsnews.com"]CBS News[/url]. They have some live video feed. The FBI says there is "no indication of foul play" but they've closed La Guardia, JFK, and Newark.
Apparently the plane crashed on takeoff, one of the two most dangerous times for a plane(the other time being landing) to suffer a mishap related to mechanical failure, pilot error, or environmental interference.
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An American Airlines plane carrying up to 246 passengers has crashed into residential buildings in New York City.
Just two months and one day after the atrocities of September 11, the New York skyline is once again filled with smoke and American F15 fighter jets are circling the skies.
Up to 246 passengers and nine crew were reported to be on board the American Airlines Flight 587, an Airbus A300, which left JFK airport for Santo Domingo. There are no reports of survivors.
Mayor Rudolph Giuliani once again joined rescue services at the crash scene. He reported that one of the engines had fallen from the jet. "The first thing that went through my mind was 'oh my God." He urged Americans to stay "absolutely calm", saying: "We are being tested one more time, and we will pass this test." "Now we should focus all our efforts on finding survivors".
In Washington, President George W. Bush met with advisers, seeking details of the crash. Witnesses said they heard a loud noise before the plane plummeted to the ground on Rockaway Beach, Queens, the most densely populated suburb of New York. Today is Veterans Day - a public holiday in America - and many New Yorkers are spending the day at home with their families.
An eyewitness said she had seen a "fireball" as the plane hit a building behind her home. "I saw this hit the house right behind my house. It seemed so low that I was ducking, almost. Then there was this enormous fireball." She added: "It is utter terror here, everybody's just in shock. It's hard to believe, you don't think it's going to hit this close to home."
Beverly Browne, from Brooklyn, said she saw white smoke coming from the plane before it crashed. "The wings were going backwards and forwards like it was trying to balance itself. There was white smoke coming out of it. "It just couldn't seem to stabilise itself. The next thing I knew it had crashed."
Susan Locke, who lives a few blocks away from the crash, said she saw it coming "straight down" in the middle of a residential housing area. "I didn't hear an explosion. I heard a rumble that shook my house. I looked out and saw it go straight down. "I didn't see any smoke. It wasn't coming down on its belly, but nose down. It might not have been at 90 degrees but it was certainly head first."
Another witness near the crash site said he was 40 blocks away and saw "Just a lot of smoke. Tons and tons of smoke. You can see emergency vehicles heading to area. Lots of people are standing in the streets. It's very tense." Another who saw the plane explode said: "There was a loud popping sound and pieces of plane were flying all over the place. Then it exploded." She added: "I heard a loud noise which made me look out in the first place. It was louder than usual - I thought it was Concorde."
New York has been placed on Level 1 alert - all airports bridges and tunnels in the city have now been closed. Forty four units and 198 firefighters have responded to the scene. The plane crashed in Queens at 9.15am local time - buildings are on fire and smoke is billowing high above the city. A clearly shocked Prime Minister Tony Blair speaking at Downing Street just minutes after hearing reports of the crash, said: "We have regrettably just heard reports of an airliner that has gone down in New York."We simply don't know any more details than that at the present time."All I want to say at this juncture is that our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims and with the American people at this time."I don't think it is sensible for us, on the basis of the information we have, to speculate any further." American Airlines have just completed their programme of fitting steel doors to ****pits of all their 767s.
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Sounds like an engine caught fire on take-off. Most dangerous time for a plane because that is when the engines go to full power--if something is going to go wrong, that is when it will. People saying that they saw a wing fall off? Feel sorry for the people in the Rockaways--haven't been out there in a while, there's great irish bar on the beach I go to every so often.
“I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.” - Edgar Allen Poe
Originally posted by VoodooDali:
<STRONG>Sounds like an engine caught fire on take-off. Most dangerous time for a plane because that is when the engines go to full power--if something is going to go wrong, that is when it will. People saying that they saw a wing fall off? Feel sorry for the people in the Rockaways--haven't been out there in a while, there's great irish bar on the beach I go to every so often.</STRONG>
I have read that 90% of air accidents take place within 30 miles of the takeoff or landing sites. Which, when you think about it, makes sense.
It's sad to see all the tunnels and bridges in NYC closed down so swiftly. It looks bad when you compare it to Bush's interminable harrangue about how "Americans are getting back to their daily lives," and "Americans have the courage to etc." What it demonstrates instead is a jumpy American administration--the same one that sent US fleets to patrol the east and west coasts after the September hijackings, presumably to stop all those al-Qua'ida submarines that were on their way across the Atlantic and Pacific oceans to land large invasion forces.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
It's sad to see all the tunnels and bridges in NYC closed down so swiftly. It looks bad when you compare it to Bush's interminable harrangue about how "Americans are getting back to their daily lives," and "Americans have the courage to etc." What it demonstrates instead is a jumpy American administration--the same one that sent US fleets to patrol the east and west coasts after the September hijackings, presumably to stop all those al-Qua'ida submarines that were on their way across the Atlantic and Pacific oceans to land large invasion forces.
In all fairness, though, he would be open to a great deal of criticism if he did not respond swiftly, and this turned out to be another terrorist attack. We are in a war situation, and there is always that possibility, if not from OBL and his activists then from supporters....
The general consensus seems to be that this is more likely to be a domestic tragedy, both the White House and the Pentagon have confirmed they have had no intelligence in respect of any terrorist activity.
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Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>It's sad to see all the tunnels and bridges in NYC closed down so swiftly. It looks bad when you compare it to Bush's interminable harrangue about how "Americans are getting back to their daily lives," and "Americans have the courage to etc." What it demonstrates instead is a jumpy American administration</STRONG>
I think the question to ask is, "If not for the 11 September attacks, what would NYC's emergency plan be?" Maybe in the event of a major catastrophe (which an airliner crashing in a neighbourhood certainly qualifies) it is standard procedure in NYC to shut down the bridges and tunnels except to emergency vehicles; I don't know--that is pure conjecture on my part. However, it would make sense that if you needed to move a lot of EMS equipment and personnel through the city, shutting down the infrastructure between burroughs to civilian traffic would be the fastest way to get the right people where they needed to go. I also don't think it was Dubya making this call; it was probably left up to Mayor Guiliani and his emergency response team.
From what I have been able to gather from internet news websites, radio broadcasts, and the tv here at work, it sounds to me like the plane experienced some sort of mechanical failure that caused one or both of the plane's engines to catch fire and explode. I have also heard that the primary crash site is contained within an eight or so block radius which leads me to believe that the plane did not explode as the result of a missile or bomb. CNN.com reported that the NTSB has already found the flight data recorder which may be able to shed some early light on this tragedy.
In all likelihood, this is probably an accident (although I have only second- and third-hand information upon which to base my conclusions) which couldn't have come at a worse time for either American Airlines, the city of New York, or the public in the United States.
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
Originally posted by HighLordDave:
<STRONG>I think the question to ask is, "If not for the 11 September attacks, what would NYC's emergency plan be?" Maybe in the event of a major catastrophe (which an airliner crashing in a neighbourhood certainly qualifies) it is standard procedure in NYC to shut down the bridges and tunnels except to emergency vehicles; I don't know--that is pure conjecture on my part. However, it would make sense that if you needed to move a lot of EMS equipment and personnel through the city, shutting down the infrastructure between burroughs to civilian traffic would be the fastest way to get the right people where they needed to go. I also don't think it was Dubya making this call; it was probably left up to Mayor Guiliani and his emergency response team.</STRONG>
The thing is, NYC is five very large cities in one. (In fact, one of the so-called borroughs, Brooklyn, *was* a separate city until they made what many people consider the biggest mistake of their existence by becoming part of NYC in the late 19th century.) It isn't necessary to close bridges and tunnels to get rescue teams on-site of various kinds, since each burrough has literally multiple major hospitals, fire stations, police, etc. Nor does this prevent traffic from gathering within each burrough, and in fact, makes the traffic jams much worse. Far more people go to NYC in the morning to work than leave it to work elsewhere, so that shutting it up during business hours merely keeps all those people locked in the place.
I didn't mention Dubyah because the news services clearly stated it was the mayor's call. And frankly, I think Giuliani has been acting peculiarly out-of-touch with reality since before the bombings. (His first press conference afterwards didn't do more than mention the dead at the World Trade Center in passing, and spent most of its time rah-rahing about how NYC was going to be on top of the *financial disaster* as quickly as possible.)
[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: fable ]
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>I think Giuliani has been acting peculiarly out-of-touch with reality since before the bombings.</STRONG>
It's probably because he and his girlfriend got kicked out of Gracie mansion by his soon-to-be-ex-wife and her lawyers.
I also think that the mayor has to do something or he looks like an impotent fool. If he over-reacts then he can say, "It's better to err on the side of caution" but if he does nothing and something worse happens, he looks inept.
I was (and still am) highly critical of Dubya disappearing on 11 September and taking close to 12 hours to appear live to the American public at a time when we needed him to be "presidential". I don't remember exactly what time it was, but not long after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, Bill Clinton was on TV telling the public everything we needed to hear (ie-"Stay calm . . . we're working to find out exactly what happened . . . this is tragedy of staggering proportions . . . our prayers go out to the victims and their families" etc.).
Just as we need the president to act presidential, we need mayors to act "mayoral" and go to the scene of the tragedy, say the right things, and do things . . . anything. That gives them the appearance of control and us the feeling of security that something is being done.
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
I think we've got bin ladin scared but he still won'ts to bomb us so he putts explosives on it and blows it up when it is likly to blow up he could have had some one put it onto engine
It was most likely a bird that crashed into the engine. Thats a common problem in the area.
255 on board, plus unknown amount of people in the houses. Thankfully the gas station that the plane crashed near too, didn't explode.
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I was (and still am) highly critical of Dubya disappearing on 11 September and taking close to 12 hours to appear live to the American public at a time when we needed him to be "presidential". I don't remember exactly what time it was, but not long after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, Bill Clinton was on TV telling the public everything we needed to hear...
Dubbyah hasn't really acted presidential, IMO, since taking office. He's acted like a state governor (which, not coincidentally, he was), distributing favors to rightwing Republicans without regard for either quality of nominee or the need to build coalitions with the other major party or the moderates of his own group. The James Jeffords debacle was only the most visible and hilarious result of Bush's attitude: slashing a federal prescription drug program that Jeffers' had co-sponsored, then passing what was left of it and refusing in punishment to invite Jeffers to the inauguration event--in his own state, worse yet--backfired right in Bush's face with the loss of the Senate to the Democrats. (In Jeffers' defense it has to be said that he had several other differences with Dubbyah's administration, but that really was the last straw.)
And now with a nation losing economic steam, Bush is still pushing Edward Teller's schizophrenic, multi-billion dollar missile defense system--no, not presidential, at all. The man has yet to understand that his constituents aren't simply the defense and natural resources lobbies, but the whole US.
As to Bush disappearing for 12 crucial hours after those horrific events: well, that's a piece with the above. He just doesn't get it. And as more people drop out of the workforce while the deficit climbs ever higher, I suspect people will begin to recall Bush's lack of presence.
Just as we need the president to act presidential, we need mayors to act "mayoral" and go to the scene of the tragedy, say the right things, and do things . . . anything. That gives them the appearance of control and us the feeling of security that something is being done.
I simply question whether crying over economic losses was really what NYC needed at that moment. Something more along the lines of serious but heartfelt sympathy for the losses of the families of the dead might have seemed a bit less...ghoulish. However, as you point out, the man's life is coming apart at the seams: divorce, cancer, inability to pay taxes, etc. A shame politicians cannot see beyond the need to wield power over others, and simply give up the reins of government when they are no longer capable of wielding it competently, drawing strength from secure private lives behind the scenes.
[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: fable ]
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
250 lives gone.
The families must be distraught and devasted.
Too many innocents.
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What a tragic accident. From what I've heard on the news so far, they have now analysed both the black boxes, and there is no indication of anything else than mechanical error, although no explanations are ruled out yet.
Horrible for the families and friends of all the victums
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