What a moronic insinuation!

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:56 am

Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Mutawakel told Agence France-Presse that claims western intelligence services had evidence of bin Laden's involvement in plotting the attacks on New York and Washington were not credible.

Mutawakel said the Taliban had not made any military preparations for a fresh US attempt to take out bin Laden. "If the US attack Afghanistan without any reason naturally that would be international terrorism," he said.

He went on to suggest that this week's attacks may have been the work of Jewish groups aiming to consolidate US support for Israel. "There is a view that the Jews may have carried out these attacks in order to create a clash between the United States and the Islamic world."

Do you BELIEVE THIS GUY?!!!

Sheesh man, I could not believe that he would make such a stupid insinuation.

Are the Jews that dumb and so low and desperate to commit such an act? That would be not only a VERY RISKY thing to do, IT'S JUST PLAIN STUPID AND IMMATURE TO EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!

If indeed the Israelis are responsible, in the end they will be caught, and rest assured they would become a PARIAH to the whole international community.

I'm sorry, but with due respect, I DO NOT BUY THAT!!!

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:27 am

This is the problem - the international panic is causing fingers to be pointed in all directions. I even heard the Japanese had been blamed.

The fact is, right now, the perpertrators have still not been publically identified. Yes officials are fairly sure, but they need to be ABSOLUTELY sure - without the slightest doubt - this is WAYYY too important for the US to rush in on a whim - they need the backing of all nations on this...let us not forget the bombing in Ohio was initially blamed on the middle east...

Bush has stated that whichever country is found to be harbouring the terrorists responsible for this attrocity will be seen to condone it. I agree with this...

With current rumours this must make Afghanistan EXTREMELY nervous.

As for an attack on Afghanistan being international terrorism, that is more laughable than blaming the Jews. Blaming the Jews is understandable 'it wasn't me - it was him!' Defence tactics.

Jodmos · Post by **Jodmos** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:29 am

LoL
The old Jewish conspiracy thingie, nobody takes that serious.
I mean just look at who made this statement.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 9:17 am

AFAIK world economy is controlled by Jews spread all over the globe. And it's huge possibility that most company which have office on WTC were Jews owned in majority. So based on this fact it's clearly another bullsh*t comes from that mans mouth. I guess common sense is required to see into source of the matter.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 9:36 am

For Pete's sake, even the Japs?!!!

Whatever happened to common sense?

Knowing Japanese culture, these people are a proud (in a non-offensive meaning) race when it comes to dealing with their enemies. If anything, the Japanese aren't cowards in the sense that they would not allow other people to take away their glory for doing their enemies in.

Nah... don't buy that bovine fecal matter either. Besides, the Japanese would not benefit from such an act of aggression/terrorism. Goodness, revenge? I know that there are a number of Japanese who still bear a grudge against the Americans, but I don't think that they are THAT PASSIONATE enough to be able to come up (the effort and all) with such a "daring" (albeit more on cowardly, really) attack on the US.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 10:15 am

Originally posted by Maharlika:
"There is a view that the Jews may have carried out these attacks in order to create a clash between the United States and the Islamic world."

What German TV station ARD is reporting is very sobering. While the Saudi government offers condolences, at the grass roots level is much the same feeling as reported in Palestine. They already believe we are at war. No Jewish conspiracy theories are needed.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Sojourner ]

Word · Post by **Word** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:59 pm

The hatered between Jewish and Palestinian people is so great that you rally the support of the Islamic community with statments like that. If the MIddle East wants to believe it they can. Afghanistan is just trying to gain allies when it seems the whole world is against them. I also see those qoutes as total BS.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:06 pm

Originally posted by Word:
The hatered between Jewish and Palestinian people is so great that you rally the support of the Islamic community with statments like that. If the MIddle East wants to believe it they can. Afghanistan is just trying to gain allies when it seems the whole world is against them. I also see those qoutes as total BS.

But, they will have support from Iraq, maybe Iran. Might have to watch out for the Libians too.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:11 pm

I honestly don't think that anything should be dismissed right away. It could be anyone from the Middle East, Europe, The Orieant, South America, or even North America. For all we know, this could be an American conspiracy conjured up by the US Government. It is plausible, for all those about to condemn me for this, but since Bush was elected prez. he has almost been pushing for a war, so it's not completly out of whack to think that. All I'm saying is that it could be almost anyone, and right now, half the world is trying to point the finger at someone, and they're thinking to irrationally about.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:12 pm

Those Canadians are really sneaky too.

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:30 pm

Afghanistan is in an ugly position.

Iran has condemned this terrorist attack. That means even Iran is scared right now. They closed the border to Afghanistan.

Pakistan is seriously debating which side to pick - normally they would side with the Afghans, but the messages sent to them by America are making them truly consider helping us out (or at least not getting in the way a fraction of a bit).

I don't think Afghanistan can find an ally if they don't hand over bin Laden. The Taliban must realize that there are consequences for an act like this - and not some stupid 'must be an Islamic trial where we can give bin Laden a slap on the wrist'. I think all the Taliban are doing right now are trying to rally up public support. If the public turns on the Taliban then they're in really big trouble. If the public supports them, just remember - Afghanistan was the Vietnam for Russia. They probably still have tons of Stinger missles supplied by the US too.

Word · Post by **Word** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:53 am

@Aegis I can't see the "American Conspiracy" theory. I'm sorry no one in our goverment is that corrupt to where they would kill thousands of our own to gain a war or any other of their goals. Also we are Israel's strongest backers if they would do something like that conspiracy thing they would do something that wouldn't weaken our economy so much.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:08 am

While all sources point to OSB, has any one even considered the anarchists that litter the globe. Remember the Seattle and Genoa? incidents suurounding the WTO. With anarchists being found all over the globe, I'm honestly suprised that they haven't even been considered. They are well organised and may even have contacts with major terrorist organisations.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:24 am

Originally posted by Word:
@Aegis I can't see the "American Conspiracy" theory. I'm sorry no one in our goverment is that corrupt to where they would kill thousands of our own to gain a war or any other of their goals. Also we are Israel's strongest backers if they would do something like that conspiracy thing they would do something that wouldn't weaken our economy so much.

I'm not saying that is what happend, what I am saying is that you shouldn't rule it out. Governments in the past have done things like that just to cause war and conflict. For instance, back in WW2, there is a conspiracy that says Winston Churchhill knew about the German U-boat that was about to sink the Lucetania, and American charter. He didn't warn the States, because it would bring them into the war. It's a slightly diffeent case, yes, but still, it does show what some countries would do gain support, or even start war.

Word · Post by **Word** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:01 am

@AegisYes but Churchill saw how the US winning the joining the war would give the Allies the upper hand. There was no war here this is a battle that is completly undefined. Americans weren't worried about terrorist until this attack happened we all asumed that only happens in the middle east. Aegis I also realize you were just using an example and I was trying to show why such theories have to many holes to be worthwhile.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:24 am

Posted by Aegis -

For instance, back in WW2, there is a conspiracy that says Winston Churchhill knew about the German U-boat that was about to sink the Lucetania, and American charter. He didn't warn the States, because it would bring them into the war.

The sinking of the Lusitania is what brought the US into WW1, not WW2.

The captain of the Lusitania was warned of the Germans having sunk three English vessels off the coast of Ireland but apparently ignored Admiralty instructions [url="http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/lusitania.html"]check this...[/url]

The US joined WW2 in response to the bombing of Pearl Harbour in 1941. It is rumoured that there WAS some intelligence available prior to this attack, hence a lot of the big warships and high ranking military officers were mysteriously absent from PH on the day of the attack...

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:00 pm

Originally posted by Yshania:
The sinking of the Lusitania is what brought the US into WW1, not WW2.

The captain of the Lusitania was warned of the Germans having sunk three English vessels off the coast of Ireland but apparently ignored Admiralty instructions [url="http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/lusitania.html"]check this...[/url]

The US joined WW2 in response to the bombing of Pearl Harbour in 1941. It is rumoured that there WAS some intelligence available prior to this attack, hence a lot of the big warships and high ranking military officers were mysteriously absent from PH on the day of the attack...

@Ysh: Thanks for clearing that up. I couldn't qite remember (How'd I forget Pearl Harbour!

)

@Word: Your points against my statment is fine, but that doesn't deny the fact the Britain purposly didn't warn the Americans. They wanted to win, so they did what they wanted to do. All I am saying is that since Bush has gotten into the White House, he has been itching for war. This can be seen quite clearly by his actions. He has withdrawn from the UN Nuclear talks, he demanded things upon China when they caught the American Spy Plane (Why would they be spying anyway?) and he has been basically giving almost every third world country a hard time. He wants war, and this is a perfect excuse, and that is why it is completly plausible that this is an American conspiracy generated by the Government to point a finger at someone, and attack. Again, this is theory and speculation, but there is always some truth behind those two things...

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:05 pm

@Aegis:

Spy Plane: America and Russia spied on each other for decades without problem. In the international community, you are not supposed to harm intelligence assets. China broke the established principle of intelligence. All the intelligence community wants is information - killing other intelligence only harms the overall process and makes it harder to gain information. Oh yeah, the plane was in international airspace when that hotshot pilot collided into it. How about the fact that China had been warned before that the idiot pilot flew too close to American planes? Besides, why would you spy on China? Simple reasoning: wouldn't you want a heads-up if they decide to go to war with someone? They are at a high-state of readiness and are a nuclear power.

This isn't a time for half-baked conspiracy theories fitting for a movie. The real world really isn't that complex.

From hindsight you can say almost any international incident was predictable. Pearl Harbor, the Lucitania, sinking the American ship in Vietnam. The assasination that started World War I. But it's just that, hindsight. It's much easier to pick something apart when you're past it and not directly involved with it.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:28 pm

Originally posted by Quark:
@Aegis:

Spy Plane: America and Russia spied on each other for decades without problem. In the international community, you are not supposed to harm intelligence assets. China broke the established principle of intelligence. All the intelligence community wants is information - killing other intelligence only harms the overall process and makes it harder to gain information. Oh yeah, the plane was in international airspace when that hotshot pilot collided into it. How about the fact that China had been warned before that the idiot pilot flew too close to American planes? Besides, why would you spy on China? Simple reasoning: wouldn't you want a heads-up if they decide to go to war with someone? They are at a high-state of readiness and are a nuclear power.

This isn't a time for half-baked conspiracy theories fitting for a movie. The real world really isn't that complex.

From hindsight you can say almost any international incident was predictable. Pearl Harbor, the Lucitania, sinking the American ship in Vietnam. The assasination that started World War I. But it's just that, hindsight. It's much easier to pick something apart when you're past it and not directly involved with it.

I wasn't saying don't spy on potential enemies. My point was that Bush was giving China a real hard time for not giving it back (Assembled anyway). He has been pushing minor things like that since his acceptance into office.

Also, this ins't a "half-baked" conspiracy, as you put it. It is completly plausible, as it has been done in the past. I'm not saying this wasn't a tragedy, because it was, I'm just trying to make a point that people can't always jump up and point the finger at the first person that crosses their path, which is what half the world did when Bin Laden was mentioned. It hasn't yet been confirmed that he ahs done it. If he had, wouldn't he have issued a statment of why he did it, or at least take credit for it? The fact that no one has taken credit for this is rather suspicious, becuase the point of most Terrorists attacks is to make a point, or issue some form of demand on the government. In this case, nothing was demanded, and no one has stepped up to make a point.

Don't dismiss something because it's unlikly. Sometimes the correct answer is the most unorthadox one, or simpleist one.

(Just so everyone knows, and especially Quark, I do greive for those lost, and I don't think this is a conspiracy. I'm just saying its possible.)

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:33 pm

Originally posted by Aegis:
All I am saying is that since Bush has gotten into the White House, he has been itching for war. This can be seen quite clearly by his actions. He has withdrawn from the UN Nuclear talks, he demanded things upon China when they caught the American Spy Plane (Why would they be spying anyway?) and he has been basically giving almost every third world country a hard time. He wants war, and this is a perfect excuse, and that is why it is completly plausible that this is an American conspiracy generated by the Government to point a finger at someone, and attack. Again, this is theory and speculation, but there is always some truth behind those two things...

I disagree, Aegis. I do not see Bush's actions as "itching for war." What Quark has said is right. One thing that you need to realize is that this is not about a war. This is about bringing to justice the terrorists who committed/masterminded this attack upon the US and the free world.