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how to use Frenzied Berserker class!

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junmishima
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how to use Frenzied Berserker class!

Post by junmishima »

:) :confused:

ok guys... i dont know what i'm doing.. i usually would play with a straight Fighter all the way from the beginning to the end with what ever RPG game i played.

but now out of curiousity (and after i saw this "Crusader" build), i multiclass to Frenzied Berserker at level 7 (after L6 Fighter) and now at Level 8.

And now i have my doubt after seeing how my character got a 6 health penalty every and how the STR and Dex decreased after fatigue due to frenzy. and i dont know about this beforehand... if only i knew i wouldnt have multiclass to it.

My question:
1. How to counter the -6 health every round? by using some ring.. a regeneration ring maybe? what about the fatigue after frenzy?
2. Does frenzy happen automatically? or do i need to trigger it? by the look of things now i would think its automatic... can anyone advise?
3. and i read somewhere that at level 10, all party member also can be "frenzied" due to having your char frenzy. this is unacceptable.. :D

i'm a bit of dissapointment with my own build.. so can anyone advise me on how to overcome this "error" in multiclassing choice by me? :D

Thanks in Advance

kuman
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

The class is one of the best prestige classes available.. here are the reasons:

1. A good "fighter" (unless striving for a weapon master build) should have both "Cleave" and "Greater Cleave" (..which also requires Power Attack). The net result is that this class really doesn't "cost" you any additional *useless* feats. (..note that the effectiveness of the cleaves is *far* better than its basic computation value.)

2. The BAB is still high while the hit points increase due to d12 hit dice.

3. You get Toughness for free at first level. A useful feat that you probably did NOT want to spend a feat on. (..considerably *more* useful with SOZ installed now that it becomes a prerequisite to obtain "Steadfast Determination").

4. Frenzy is one of the few ways to raise your Strength (and thereby your damage and attack numbers) to extremely high levels (it "stacks" with other modifiers UNLIKE most other modifiers) - even if it is for a short time. Basically its there to use on a RARE occasion. Examples would be against mobs of low-level opponents with modest to low hit points where your strength bonus would allow you to "Great Cleave" through just about all the opponents surrounding your FB character (..in this damaging respect it works like "Power Attack" and can *add* to "Power Attack's" effectiveness and also overcome the negative to your attack that "Power Attack" has). Another ex. would be against a very high AC opponent where you can't seem to hit them and need a boost in your attack number. The extra additional attack is just a "bonus", BUT it does NOT work with the spell "Haste".

5. Supreme Cleave (at 2nd level) adds to your "Cleave" effectiveness, particularly "negating" the occasional poor attack "roll". Works extremely well with additional attacks via your Frenzy or Haste, and/or wielding *2* weapons.

6. The addition of the "Deathless" version to Frenzy (at 4th level) is very nice against necromancer spell casters (at lower levels where your fortitude save might not be high enough to make the save), and ALWAYS against monsters that can level-drain.

7. HELLO! this is the "sweet spot" for the class at level 5 - giving you "Enhanced Power Attack". By itself its a nice addition to Power Attack with any weapon, HOWEVER its real potential comes from having the feat "Improved Power Attack" *and* a TWO-HANDED weapon. Do that and the damage jumps to literally EPIC levels, without using magic. While Improved Power Attack will result in a -6 penalty to your attack it provides 20 additional damage per hit (with a two handed weapon and the "Enhanced Power Attack" feat). Obviously this is NOT for use against high AC opponents, BUT because the class itself is a high BAB class - it works surprisingly well against *most* opponents by the time you achieve "Enhanced Power Attack".

8. Everything else is "gravy" (and very good "gravy" at that).. BUT you always have to assess the cost/benefit of the build and see if spending the additional levels in another class is perhaps more beneficial. An obvious example here is simply going "back" to Fighter for additional levels offering additional feats - particularly at epic levels. ;)


...............................


Net analysis of an FB then:

Use Frenzy sparingly. Spend a feat on Improved Power Attack. Use a Two-handed weapon. Use Improved Power Attack once you have Enhanced Power Attack in most cases except against high AC opponents. Finally - carefully analyze the build beyond 5 levels of FB.
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Post by Scottg »

junmishima wrote: :) :confused:

My question:
1. How to counter the -6 health every round? by using some ring.. a regeneration ring maybe? what about the fatigue after frenzy?
2. Does frenzy happen automatically? or do i need to trigger it? by the look of things now i would think its automatic... can anyone advise?
3. and i read somewhere that at level 10, all party member also can be "frenzied" due to having your char frenzy. this is unacceptable.. :D


kuman
1. Use Healing kits. (..an excellent reason to have the "able learner" feat and an additional class (with at least one level) that has "heal" for one of its skills.)
2. You need to trigger it. Go to the Character Sheet for that character and then go to the "feats" tab on that sheet. Scroll down until you see the "Frenzy" feat and "drag'n'drop" it onto one of your quick slots.
3. That's Inspire Frenzy at 6th level and it works like Frenzy but is its own special feature (..i.e. it ONLY happens when you specifically use Inspire Frenzy, NOT "Frenzy").
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Post by junmishima »

Scottg wrote:
...............................


Net analysis of an FB then:

Use Frenzy sparingly. Spend a feat on Improved Power Attack. Use a Two-handed weapon. Use Improved Power Attack once you have Enhanced Power Attack in most cases except against high AC opponents. Finally - carefully analyze the build beyond 5 levels of FB.
thanks scottg...
that is a very thorough explanation of the Frenzied Berserker... many thanks..
now i understand more of this class... maybe i would keep it and see how it goes until level 5 .. since this is the "sweet-spot" as you mentioned...

you mentioned "Use Frenzy sparingly."... how to "use" this frenzy? since i think in my game by default it would go frenzy on all enemies? is there somewhere i can change this? or do i need to click on the "MODES" (on the right bottom corner) to control when to use frenzy or not?

btw.. this is the build i wanted to follow.... a Crusader build guide from nwvault.com Crusader build -- Neverwinter Nights 2 Vault

here is what he suggested as of level breakdown of the class.
L 1 Fighter: power attack, cleave, weapon focus melee*
L 2 Fighter: combat expertise
L 3 Fighter: dodge
L 4 Fighter: great cleave +1CHA
L 5 Fighter
L 6 Fighter: mobility, spring attack, 4 ranks of intimidate
L 7 Frenzied berserker
L 8 Frenzied berserker +1STR --> i'm here!
L 9 Frenzied berserker: Whirlwind attack
L10 Frenzied berserker
L11 Frenzied berserker
L12 Weapon master: Weapon of choice, Improved power attack +1STR
L13 Weapon master
L14 Weapon master
L15 Cleric: Divine might, Domains: water, good.
L16 Weapon master +1STR
L17 Weapon master
L18 Cleric: Divine shield
L19 Weapon master
L20 Weapon master +1STR
seems ok? any by looking at the above.. indeed i need to add some healing class to the build.. :D

thanks in advance again... :D
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Post by Claudius »

Switch the behavior tab of your character. Click on Use Special Abilities...select 'no'.

For your domains I would not use water and good. Not water because I would want to wear Platemail (well maybe you still get evasion in plate?? dunno). Good is just going to give immunity to fear. Not too bad but I'd rather have something else.

But what you need is definitely blindfighting so take darkness domain. The other tempting domain is luck as I see it which will give Luck of Heroes feat which is a pretty decent feat.

There would be some advantage to trying to fit an extra feat in...Able Learner. Personally I would hose charisma and drop cleric then I would add two more fighter levels pick up a feat that way.
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Post by Scottg »

junmishima wrote:thanks scottg...


btw.. this is the build i wanted to follow.... a Crusader build guide from nwvault.com Crusader build -- Neverwinter Nights 2 Vault


thanks in advance again... :D

You are welcome! :)

As Claudius has suggested, you can remove the *automated* special ability use (Fenzy, etc.). That then leaves you to "manually" select Frenzy as I specified.

Alternatively, you can remove all of your character's actions and exert complete control over that character by going to the "action" tab of the character sheet and selecting "Puppet Mode: On". Doing this then requires *you* to perform all actions for that character (..including Frenzy).

.........................................................

Like Claudius, I have some problems with that build..

The biggest problem is the Weapon Master portion of it.. Great Cleave in effect operates similarly to Whirlwind Attack, and doubling-up on this doesn't make much sense, particularly because *so many* feats are used for each "class" of attack.

To get Whirlwind requires:

Dex. 13 (when the character only needs at most 12),
Int. 13 (when the character only needs at most 12).

(moreover *13* doesn't provide you any increase in attribute bonus over 12, so in effect you are wasting *at least* 2 attribute points. Additionally such a broad range of required attributes probably means that you'll need a race that does NOT have an attribute bonus to Strength.)

Feats:
Dodge
Mobility
Combat Expertise
Spring Attack

NONE of these feats are particularly good for typical "fighter" combat.

Combat Expertise is the best of the group for a basic fighter, BUT you can't use Combat Expertise at the same time as Power Attack (or Improved Power Attack). Moreover +3 just isn't enough AC, BUT +6 AC via "Improved Combat Expertise", can be effective for those occasions where you need a distracting "meat shield" and don't really care if the character lands any "hits" or not.

Spring Attack is a great feat, FOR A ROGUE who needs to get away and hide after a sneak attack. It doesn't have much use for a fighter type because a fighter usually isn't "moving around" in combat. (.."moving around" means *stopping your attack* action and moving to another location..)

Dodge and Mobility increase AC against attacks of opportunity, again though, a fighter is NOT likely to provoke attacks of opportunity in the first place. Actions that provoke attacks of opportunity are:

1. Stop fighting and moving to another location (i.e. moving around in combat).
2. Drinking potions (..healing or otherwise)
3. Casting a spell
4. Using Disarm
5. Firing a ranged weapon

1. You shouldn't be doing.
2. You should be using healing *kits*, NOT healing *potions* (at least not while in combat). A healing kit not only does NOT provoke attacks of opportunity, BUT usually (with a good net heal number) can heal more hitpoints than most potions (excepting a white "Heal" potion).
3. Fighters shouldn't be doing this, especially not in combat.
4. You should only use Disarm, (actually Improved Disarm), against very touch opponents that can be disarmed. IF you make the disarm then you generally don't have to worry about the attack of opportunity. (..they may score an attack of opportunity via unarmed attack and/or with a henchmen, but usually both are not a significant enough problem in these situations.)
5. If you are using a Ranged attack weapon that close then you are either an idiot (or newb), OR you have chosen the feat Point Blank Shot which negates attacks of opportunity in this instance.

What all of this amounts to is that all *4* feats have little if any use to your character. All this to get Whirlwind.

THEN Whirlwind itself isn't that great:

1. it takes a full round to make the attack (..i.e. just *one* attack per round).
2. its area of effect isn't particularly large, and often misses a lot of opponents. To help compensate you almost *need* a large two-handed weapon, (..and unfortunately Improved Whirlwind is ONLY an Epic feat).
3. it effectively exposes you to more attacks (vs. the cleaves). (..the problem here is that you aren't reducing the number of opponents as the fight progresses, instead you kill most all at the same time - but latter after several Whirlwinds. The greater number of opponents able to attack you for longer periods, the faster you die.) The exception here is killing more with a critical hit, BUT criticals can be unpredictable (as I'll go into later).

Finally all this is for the Weapon Master class, and the Weapon Master class isn't that great either.

The Weapon Master class is primarily about improving your critical "threat range" which occurs at level 7 (WM) via feat "Ki Critical". (..the increase in critical damage is also important, but the threat range is more important.)

So not only does it require ALL that we have just discussed, but it ALSO requires 7 class levels just to get its most important feature. THE FEATURE YOU WON'T GET UNTIL THE END OF THE BUILD!:speech:

Furthermore, *MANY* opponents are often immune to criticals (and sneak attacks), so just on the basis of opponents alone it is "hit and miss".

THEN look at the improvement Ki critical offers you - about as much as 10%. IS as much as a 10% improvement actually worth all the hassle of the build? IMO.. *maybe* (depending on the module and how many opponents are critical immune), BUT more importantly - IS it worth it in conjunction with a FB build? NO. ABSOLUTELY NO! ;)
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Post by Scottg »

junmishima wrote: ..indeed i need to add some healing class to the build.. :D
The Cleric class adds this. ;)

..but you don't have the feat Able Learner to make best use of it, AND you don't have the class scheduled until level 15.

A mediocre-to-poor build IMO. :o
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Post by junmishima »

@Claudius..
thanks for the information on disabling that Special Abilities thing.. now i can totally control my PC :D
================


@Scottg
- i'll start using that Healing Kits from now on, i always depends on potion all this while.. time to change i guess... :D
- that is 1 awesome explanation... it took me sometime to digest it all.. now i understood that the said build is a mediocre build.. but it seems very powerful to me when i first decide to try it.. :D

so as it stand.. what would be your suggestion if i would like to continue with this build... as of last nite i progress 1 more level in FB
L 1 Fighter: power attack, cleave, weapon focus melee*
L 2 Fighter: combat expertise
L 3 Fighter: dodge
L 4 Fighter: great cleave +1CHA
L 5 Fighter
L 6 Fighter: mobility, spring attack, 4 ranks of intimidate
L 7 Frenzied berserker
L 8 Frenzied berserker +1STR
L 9 Frenzied berserker: Whirlwind attack --> i'm here!
L10 Frenzied berserker
L11 Frenzied berserker
L12 Weapon master: Weapon of choice, Improved power attack +1STR
L13 Weapon master
L14 Weapon master
L15 Cleric: Divine might, Domains: water, good.
L16 Weapon master +1STR
L17 Weapon master
L18 Cleric: Divine shield
L19 Weapon master
L20 Weapon master +1STR
but i somehow skipped the "Whirlwind Attack" and it seems to be a good move since you said that that feat is not worth the trouble.. :D

so any suggestion on how i can improve this build based on my style of playing?

1. i mainly a melee player and use longsword + shield (but really keen on trying dual-weilding)
2. Would love to use Katana & broad sword (but i need to take Exotic feat, right --> should i?) or i should stick to longsword..
3. now primary weapon is Blade of the Gladiator & Heavy Shield +1.
4. and all about inflicting massive damage..
5. also a skill to open locks & disarm trap would be useful as well since if possible i would like not too depended on Neeshka to open lock for me.. :p

any suggestion?

thanks in advance.. you guys have been very helpful to me.. :D

kuman
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Post by Claudius »

That being said (WM gots lots of useless feats/stats) I would say WM has its place in some builds. Because of the crit range and multiplier. For 20 levels its hard to get the AB high enough to get scimitar crits on 13s so what I would do is make a scythe weapon master. Then on your 17-20 crits that will be x5 damage I believe. Its very important for a WM to have as high AB as possible. And also more damage/hit to multiply. The problem with FZ/WM combo is that if you use IPA and Scythe sure you will do an additional 100 damage on a crit!! But the problem is the -6 AB makes you do less crits. Personally I would go for Fighter 12 WM 7 which will give 2 AB for Weapon Focus and Greater WF. Also +4 damage (20 on scythe crit) for weapons spec + GWS. That would leave 1 level for something to grant some skills. Perhaps Ranger for heal. Or cleric for 2 feats and heal. NWN for a useful aura and heal which you can take NWN at 6 BAB.

I have found one use for the whirlwind attack. You can attack invisible or ethereal opponents with it. I guess it is an AoE attack?
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Post by Claudius »

1. i mainly a melee player and use longsword + shield (but really keen on trying dual-weilding)
2. Would love to use Katana & broad sword (but i need to take Exotic feat, right --> should i?) or i should stick to longsword..
3. now primary weapon is Blade of the Gladiator & Heavy Shield +1.
4. and all about inflicting massive damage..
5. also a skill to open locks & disarm trap would be useful as well since if possible i would like not too depended on Neeshka to open lock for me..

2. Scimitar is as good as a katana

3. Dual Wielding is probably incompatible with dealing damage unless with sneak attack or possibly with swashbuckler.

1. Scimitar and shield is probably a better set up but longsword is fine too.

4. Try a high strength

5. Able learner and a level of rogue with decent intelligence can do that.
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Post by Scottg »

junmishima wrote:
so as it stand.. what would be your suggestion if i would like to continue with this build... as of last nite i progress 1 more level in FB



but i somehow skipped the "Whirlwind Attack" and it seems to be a good move since you said that that feat is not worth the trouble.. :D

so any suggestion on how i can improve this build based on my style of playing?

5. also a skill to open locks & disarm trap would be useful as well since if possible i would like not too depended on Neeshka to open lock for me.. :p

any suggestion?


kuman
The build itself is compromised from the very beginning, therefore its difficult to correct the problems - most of which are related to Attributes. :o

As Claudius has noted - the Improved Power Attack has a -6 attack penalty. To overcome this the character should have a high Strength and should also have a weapon focus (perhaps even greater weapon focus), in the correct weapon.

For this reason by far the best solution would be to start over with a new character (and you probably aren't *that* deep into the game yet, so seriously consider it).. but barring that,

..lets see, trying to do some "salvaging"..

But to do that, first:

1. What feat did you select at level 9?
2. What modules do you have installed?
3. What are your attributes at this time, and are you at level 9?
4. How badly do you want to get rid of Neeshka? (i.e. it will be very tough to incorporate thief skills at a respectable level of proficiency.)
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Post by junmishima »

@Claudius
- i see... scimitar is as good.. will give Scimitar a try and use that with a shield. :D
- as you said.. for now i'll forget about dual-wielding anything and stick to sword +shield combo then.
- will try that Able Learner & maybe 1 level of Rogue to get to that Open Lock thing... or maybe would be better if i just stick to Neeshka till the end of the game hmm... :o
Scottg wrote:
For this reason by far the best solution would be to start over with a new character (and you probably aren't *that* deep into the game yet, so seriously consider it).. but barring that,

..lets see, trying to do some "salvaging"..

But to do that, first:

1. What feat did you select at level 9?
2. What modules do you have installed?
3. What are your attributes at this time, and are you at level 9?
4. How badly do you want to get rid of Neeshka? (i.e. it will be very tough to incorporate thief skills at a respectable level of proficiency.)
- as for now i dont know if i have the energy to start over.. but would seriously consider it if the "salvaging" failed miserably :laugh:

1. IIRC i didnt select any feat ( i think the game somehow didnt give me the feat screen)
2. i'm running a base installation with no modules what-so-ever.
3. Yes.. i just hit Level 9 and i think i still have the save game BEFORE i Level-up (meaning at the end of Level 8 - i can load that one any maybe work from there if it would help the "salvaging" process)
- as for attributes i have currently, i'll have to check and get back to you guys on that.
4. Not that bad, i think that she is nice to have around especially if Khelgar is in the party.. a good laugh from these 2 characters. But in the future as the game progresses; will Neeshka be very useful in later part of the game? if she can stand on her own (melee fighting etc) then i might keep her throughout the journey... its quite hard to choose a party member as it is with a minimal slot allocation per ACT.

- so if trying to incorporate thief skill will not help the "salvaging" process, then i'll keep her for her skill and beef-up her other skill so she will be worth it in a long run.

.. :D

kuman :)
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Post by Scottg »

OK..

At 9th level you are less than a 3rd of the way into the game.. are you *sure* you want to continue with this build?

If so..

IF we keep Nishka I think were OK, otherwise we are looking at spending more points then we have for skills we don't need. BTW, Nishka is rather good with a shortbow at fairly close range (i.e. point blank feat required) where she can make occasional attacks of opportunity and therefore Sneak Attack damage. (..it also keeps her mostly out of danger.) (TIP: look to all the archer feats for her: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Improved Rapid Shot.)

1st go back and look at your feats at 9th level and write them down, THEN go back to the 8th level save and see what the feats were there and write them down and compare the two. Report back with feats. From there I think we can move on to improving the current build. ;)

Oh, one other thing - Do you plan on taking this character (afterward) into MOTB? (..if so, that requires planning for all 30 levels, and would then be even more advantageous to "start over" you current game.)
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Post by Scottg »

junmishima wrote:


2. i'm running a base installation with no modules what-so-ever.
How are you getting the prestige class Frenzied Berserker then? :confused:
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Post by junmishima »

Scottg wrote:OK..

At 9th level you are less than a 3rd of the way into the game.. are you *sure* you want to continue with this build?

If so..

IF we keep Nishka I think were OK, otherwise we are looking at spending more points then we have for skills we don't need. BTW, Nishka is rather good with a shortbow at fairly close range (i.e. point blank feat required) where she can make occasional attacks of opportunity and therefore Sneak Attack damage. (..it also keeps her mostly out of danger.) (TIP: look to all the archer feats for her: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Improved Rapid Shot.)

1st go back and look at your feats at 9th level and write them down, THEN go back to the 8th level save and see what the feats were there and write them down and compare the two. Report back with feats. From there I think we can move on to improving the current build. ;)
hi again... :D

i'm back and last night i reload the one at the end of Level 8 and continue from there without "Level-up" to level 9 yet... so technically i'm still at level 8 (with the + sign on my characters potrait) :D

:angel::angel:as of last night i somehow forgot to write down the feats on my char.. my bad.. i only manage to jot-down the attributes as below:

STR 19
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 10
CHA 10

i think i concentrated more on STR, is this ok?

===============

I think i'll keep Neeshka, since that would make "salvaging" my build a bit easy. and Yes... i already assigned her to use shortbow and that Rapier+3 i found the other day... so far so good.. so i'll keep Neeshka around. :D

and i still owe you my feats list... i'll do that first thing wheni go back home later today... ;)
Oh, one other thing - Do you plan on taking this character (afterward) into MOTB? (..if so, that requires planning for all 30 levels, and would then be even more advantageous to "start over" you current game.)
- if possible i would love to take this over to MOTB or even SoZ for that matter... i see.. a lot of planning involved in "salvaging" this build then :D

thanks in advance for the help Scottg..
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Post by junmishima »

refer to end of page 1 for my other reply.. :D

Scottg wrote:How are you getting the prestige class Frenzied Berserker then? :confused:
errr.. what do you mean by "modules", as i understand modules would refer to those Add-on that some other people create for the game? is that it? or something else? :confused:

is there a special requirement (installation-wise) in order to get the Prestige class? or is it something else that i totally missed?

sorry :angel: me being so newbie about this :)
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Post by Scottg »

junmishima wrote:refer to end of page 1 for my other reply.. :D




errr.. what do you mean by "modules", as i understand modules would refer to those Add-on that some other people create for the game? is that it? or something else? :confused:

is there a special requirement (installation-wise) in order to get the Prestige class? or is it something else that i totally missed?

sorry :angel: me being so newbie about this :)

Modules are any "worlds" you load in, in this case however I was referring to official campaigns that give you "extras" like prestige classes, etc..

For example the "OC" is the module you are playing now, and unless I'm mistaken it does NOT have the prestige class Frenzied Berserker unless you also have the MOTB module/campaign installed.

With just the OC though you do have access to the standard Berserker class that sometimes is mistaken for the Frenzied Berserker class (..the two are quite different).

Anyway, (beyond perhaps several wasted feats), your stats are much better than I expected! Yeah! :) Keep pumping up Strength. Race is Human correct?

Once you have the feats listed for me (and the exact classes you have so far), I'll then work through a build for you.

This character will be able to continue on through MOTB, but not SOZ (..which is a character level 4-18 module). To get it to continue on through MOTB though you will have to export your character just before the "end-battle" for this game.
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Post by junmishima »

Scottg wrote:Modules are any "worlds" you load in, in this case however I was referring to official campaigns that give you "extras" like prestige classes, etc..

For example the "OC" is the module you are playing now, and unless I'm mistaken it does NOT have the prestige class Frenzied Berserker unless you also have the MOTB module/campaign installed.

With just the OC though you do have access to the standard Berserker class that sometimes is mistaken for the Frenzied Berserker class (..the two are quite different).

Anyway, (beyond perhaps several wasted feats), your stats are much better than I expected! Yeah! :) Keep pumping up Strength. Race is Human correct?

Once you have the feats listed for me (and the exact classes you have so far), I'll then work through a build for you.

This character will be able to continue on through MOTB, but not SOZ (..which is a character level 4-18 module). To get it to continue on through MOTB though you will have to export your character just before the "end-battle" for this game.
ooo i see....
i think i'm 100% confident that i only have OC in my installation and also i can confirm that there are "Frenzied Berserker" prestige class listed there for the picking. :D , let me check it again to double confirm ;)

yea.. a human... i thought only logical to pump in STR for fighter.. so that is what i've been doing :) )

yup.. i'll get the Feats listed for you soon.. :D and also the exact class..

and also i heard about this export to MOTB-before-end-battle thing, will do just that when the time comes.. :D

thanks in advance Scottg :D
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junmishima
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Post by junmishima »

My Feats - for "salvaging"

ok back.. as promised below are the current stats for my character....

Human FIghter(6) Fenzied Berserker (2)

Code: Select all

[b]General Feats[/b]
cleave
Dodge
Great Cleave
Knockdown
Mobility
Power Attack
Toughness
Weapon Finesse
Weapon FOcus (Longsword)

[b]Proficiency Feats[/b]
Armor (Heavy)
Armor (Medium)
Armor (Light)
Shield
Tower Shield
Weapon (martial)
Weapon (Simple)

[b] Racial Abilities[/b]
Quick to master
Skilled

[b]Class Abilities[/b]
Frenzy 1
Supreme Cleave

[b]Skills[/b]
Bluff -1
Concentration +4
Diplomacy -1
Hide -7
Intimidate +13
Move Silently -7
Parry +4
Survival +2
Taunt +9

[b]Attributes[/b]
STR 19 
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 10
CHA 10

there you go... hope this can help us "salvage" this build.
and as of last night my character have 2 level-up that i still didnt "level-up" since i'm waiting for the salvage step.. :D

thanks for the suggestion :D
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

I've gone through and thoroughly tested the optional builds below.

HOWEVER, you may not be able to use the 2nd build *IF* you don't see the prestige class INVISIBLE BLADE. So go ahead and check that if you think you might prefer that build.

CAUTION: Both builds completely, (or nearly completely), sacrifice dialogue skills for both the OC and MOTB. This will change story-lines somewhat, and could make things a bit more difficult for you, but not much more difficult.

Note that you can do quite a bit better with a "fresh" build.. BUT both of these builds should be quite good (..excepting dialogue).

As far as choosing between the builds.. I'd probably choose the first. I personally think that 2-weapon fighting is gimicky because of the massive elemental enhancements you can put into weapons. The + damage modifier of the FB's enhanced power attack however is NOT gimicky IMO. However with both modules (and MOTB in particular), its needed FOR THE 2-WEAPON CHARACTER because so many opponents are immune to critical/sneak attack damage.

Finally, the builds you see only represent a very small portion of the many different builds I went through and discarded - selecting only the best. ;)
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