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Khelgar (Spoiler) How to Pimp out as fighter

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Claudius
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Khelgar (Spoiler) How to Pimp out as fighter

Post by Claudius »

First I have one big question before I share how I will pimp khelgar out...

Question: you have a lot of feats you could get whatever weapon you want. What weapon should khelgar use?

Opinion: I think you should either use Dwarven War Axe (comes with it) which is the obvious choice. But this weapon will only crit on 19, 20 with Improved Critical. Another Choice is Scimitar which is less single handed Damage, but a crit on 15-20. Another Choice is longsword for one more damage and crit 17-20. Another Choice is Exotic Bastard or Katana for another 1 damage and same threat range as a longsword. The final choice presuming I want a wide threat range rather than x3 on crits (or its D War Axe) is to take Monkey Grip and use a Great Sword for average damage of 7 vs 3.5 scimitar and 5.5 exotic weapons...the greatsword would also have a 17-20 threat range.

I think the Dwarven Waraxe often overkills and gets much fewer crits. Early access to a +2 Scimitar and thats what I would go for. With his strength and WS it will do a lot of damage and crit like crazy. I would also like to roll through with a Greatsword just for style points :D

The buildup...some things I take early as possible like blindfighting because khelgar is going to level squat for xp and I hate to fight concealed things with main tank no blindfighting...
* denotes fighter bonus feat
5: save 2 skill points
6: save 2 skill points; Able Learner, Blindfighting*
7: Spellcraft 5(5), Tumble 1(1)...(now he avaids att opportunity on a 20)
8: Taunt 2(9); Improved Critical Scimitar*
9: Taunt 2(11); WF Scimitar
10: Taunt 2(13); GWF Scimitar*
11: Taunt 1 (14), Tumble 1(2)
12: Taunt 1 (15), Tumble 1(3); GWS Scimitar, WS Scimitar*
13: Tumble 2(5)
14: Tumble 2(7); Power Critical Scimitar*
15: Tumble 1(8), Taunt 1(16); Iron Will
16: Tumble 1(9), Taunt 1(17); Dodge*
17: Tumble 1(10), Taunt 1(18)
18: Taunt 2(20); Lightning Reflexes or Skill Focus(Taunt), Mobility*
19: Taunt 2(22)
20: Taunt 1(23), Heal 1(1); Spring Attack*

Notice I'm using a scimitar...there is a scimitar you can buy that grants whirlwind (which I'm a little short of)..Also scimitar is great on crits threat range. So he can switch to 2 handing his scimitar and do a whirlwind at his highest AB which if you give Bull's Strength and enhance it to +5 he has 20 BAB + 8 STR +5 enhance +2 GWF = 35...which means he will hit AC 37 on a 2...he will crit on 15-20 against AC 50 and he will confirm criticals on a 2 against AC 42... (subtract 3 for power attack)....I do plan on enchanting that scimitar with Vampiric +3 or 5.

After excecuting the whirlwind simply switch back to tower shield ;)

I took Vile Drinker for my main...who doesn't use monkey grip, but tower shields disrupt arcane casting too much and as a bard I CAN use wand of shield.
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

..after testing several weapons with him, though out the game, I decided on Greatsword with monkey grip and a tower shield. The attack penalties didn't seem to have much effect.

Reason:

1. Greatswords with damage modifiers (fire), available early.
2. Vile Drinker available before the 1/2 way marker in-game.

That +5 Vampiric bonus helps him considerably to last longer in a battle (..as does the increase in AC with the shields). Additionally, you can't enchant a higher bonus in-game (oc) than the +5 Vampiric, and you couldn't enchant that earlier than you can buy it. The enhancement bonus can of course be augmented.
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Claudius
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Post by Claudius »

Where do you get the Vile Drinker?
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:Where do you get the Vile Drinker?
Port Llast if I remember correctly.
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Post by Fiberfar »

After running through through the campaign with Dwarven Waraxe, I decided that from there on and forever, he'll be using a Warhammer. :p

Of course, Greatsword and tower shield sounds interesting as well.
[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]ONLY RETARDED PEOPLE WRITE WITH CAPS ON. Good thing I press shift :D [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Bah! Bunch of lamers! Ye need the lesson of the true powergamer: Play mages, name them Koffi Annan, and only use non-intervention spells! Buwahahahahah![/QUOTE]
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Post by Scottg »

Fiberfar wrote:After running through through the campaign with Dwarven Waraxe, I decided that from there on and forever, he'll be using a Warhammer. :p

Of course, Greatsword and tower shield sounds interesting as well.
I actually preferred the "Vile Drinker" setup to the iron fist hammer combo. :eek: :D
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Post by Fiberfar »

Ah... I'll try it out, but I'll save the tower shield for the higher levels. I remember Khelgar sucked with it when I still was kicking gith butt in Neverwinter. They didn't hit him, but he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn either.
[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]ONLY RETARDED PEOPLE WRITE WITH CAPS ON. Good thing I press shift :D [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Bah! Bunch of lamers! Ye need the lesson of the true powergamer: Play mages, name them Koffi Annan, and only use non-intervention spells! Buwahahahahah![/QUOTE]
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Post by Scottg »

Fiberfar wrote:They didn't hit him, but he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn either.
I will note that I did go for Weapon Focus Greatsword, Weapon Specilization Greatsword, Improved Critical Greatsword, and Greater Weapon Focus Greatsword. ;)

He also had on Strength modifiers when ever possible AND always increased Strength.

(..for me he was the #1 badass in the group.) :p
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Post by Claudius »

Scott, Eureka I know how to make khelgar even stronger!

The key is Able learner at level 6. Ok you can save level 5 and level 6 skill points. So he has 32 by the end of the game. Screw taunt (and weapon craft)...

What you do is take 15 spellcraft (to help his saves weakness) 10 tumble (1 AC)...the other 7 you pump into UMD...

Khelgar has -2 CHA modifier giving him a modified score of 5 on UMD...ok he has a lot of feats so one of those dash feats or whatever take skill focus UMD (must be on a non-fighter feat)...

That should be enough to use 1st level wands. The spells I want are: protection from evil (grants 2 deflection AC if he misses that AND IMMUNITY TO MIND SPELLS FROM EVIL)...the other spell I want is shield spell which means now he can switch on power attack and go two handed which will:

* with a +4 STR boost (bulls) and his 22 base STR...grant 4 more damage from hand and a half strength....
* remove the monkey grip -2 which with power attack gives a net of -1 AB...he still has the AB to hit and crit and he CAN switch off PA
* grant +6 damage from 2 handed Power attack.

So with Vile Drinker and Bull's Strength He does

(2d6 + 22) 17-20 x2 +2 enhancement + 5 Vampiric
For average of 36 damage non-crit and 65 damage on a crit....

He will not sacrifice Much AC to do this seing as a tower shield you can find on drops is going to not be much more than a shield spell... And not much is going to be able to stand next to him with that damage output and Great Cleave in any case ;)

Note: I have not tested this...I will put my 7, 8, 9 skill points into UMD for 6 and take skill focus UMD at 9th level...by that time sand will craft the wands or I will by a level 1 wand to test a bit. I can always skim 5 or even 10 pts off of spellcraft to get UMD high enough...I don't think its worth it to go for 2nd/3rd level spells as the wand costs go up and I think the +saves vs. spells is also a pretty solid ability for a fighter.

Edit: I was thinking cross class caps from moTB. He will have to be satisfied with 10 spellcraft 11 Tumble 11 UMD and possibly a skillfocus. He might even be able to use some interesting item with UMD... I will look at Deekin etc and see...
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Post by Scottg »

Danger, Danger Will Robinson.. :D

Don't forget to factor in armor check penalties (..and of course wands won't work either.)

He really is better off suiting-up and just using some of the many excellent armor and shields available. I think you can even craft umber hulk armor or shields for the mind immunity.
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Post by Claudius »

See the thread about wand DC of 20 for why this WON'T work...

He's still more likely to do something useful with UMD than with taunt...armor check penalties do not apply to UMD and many other skills. Maybe he can wear dodge boots +3?

Ok now I have to decide if the +5 vampiric is worth losing 2 AB and 2 threat range for 3.5 avg weapon damage...2 AB means 10% more hits 10% more confirmed crits and two threat range is another 10% get a chance at confirming a crit....

I'll probably go with the greatsword just to see a dwarf with a huge sword. And better against undead/crit immunes...plus the vampiric is so sweet...

But if I didn't have high appraise I'd save my gold and wield a scimitar +3
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Post by Scottg »

..do Fighters get the skill Heal? I thought they did despite the description (..but I'm likely wrong. :o )

THAT is an extremely useful skill to have (..as high as possible). Unlike potions the first healing kit used is NOT time delayed for a round. Additionally it does NOT provoke an attack of opportunity.
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Post by Claudius »

hmmm...

with able learner I can cross class the heal kit to 11 base ranks which 12 is the most pts I have to spare anyhow because I definitely want tumble 10 spellcraft 10....

Yeah I am suspecting that ol khelgar is not going to need a modified score of 12 UMD...by the time he achieves that the trash items he finds are going to better than whatever he could UMD...plus theres no need to pimp the NPCs so much in the OC....I'm sure I won't have him in top gear anyway.

This new wand rule (older patches I had neeskha firing wand of missiles at lizardman) means that cross class UMD builds with high charisma are the only ones that can use wand...I guess paladin? Also multiclassing with caster classes becomes quite nice. Allows you to pull a few tricks and dispel buffbots with low caster level..

Edit: did you notice anywhere you can buy loads of healing kits...I tend to burn them up at early levels with low AC vs zombies
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:hmmm...

with able learner I can cross class the heal kit to 11 base ranks which 12 is the most pts I have to spare anyhow because I definitely want tumble 10 spellcraft 10....

Yeah I am suspecting that ol khelgar is not going to need a modified score of 12 UMD...by the time he achieves that the trash items he finds are going to better than whatever he could UMD...plus theres no need to pimp the NPCs so much in the OC....I'm sure I won't have him in top gear anyway.

This new wand rule (older patches I had neeskha firing wand of missiles at lizardman) means that cross class UMD builds with high charisma are the only ones that can use wand...I guess paladin? Also multiclassing with caster classes becomes quite nice. Allows you to pull a few tricks and dispel buffbots with low caster level..

Edit: did you notice anywhere you can buy loads of healing kits...I tend to burn them up at early levels with low AC vs zombies


Danger, Danger.. (..err, whatever). :D

Don't forget Armor/Shield Check Penalties. Spellcraft and Tumble will likely be in the negative even with 10 points.

Yup.. multi-classing is more important now, unfortunately you can't do that with the companions in the OC or MOTB.

Its been quite a while since I played the OC..

I *think* you can stock up from the cleric at "outpost" early in the game (..he is available from up though chapter 2 I believe). Don't know if you can craft them yourself or not..
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Post by Claudius »

Spellcraft is not affected by armor check. Tumble still grants 1 AC for every 10 hard ranks (NOT modified ranks). Spellcraft grants 1 save vs spell for every 5 hard ranks (NOT modified ranks).

Another effect of even 1 rank of tumble is to avoid attacks of opportunity created by moving...even in iron fullplate with an 8 dexterity and a tower shield you still will get a succesful check on a skill check of 20..

The way you say tumble should work is probably how it SHOULD work and would rebalance towards dex builds...its positively stupid that a bard 1 Fighter 12 RDD 10 WM 7 in fullplate and tower shield can tumble around the battlefield with such affect as to grant as much AC bonus as Fullplate relative to chain..
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:Spellcraft is not affected by armor check. Tumble still grants 1 AC for every 10 hard ranks (NOT modified ranks). Spellcraft grants 1 save vs spell for every 5 hard ranks (NOT modified ranks).

Another effect of even 1 rank of tumble is to avoid attacks of opportunity created by moving...even in iron fullplate with an 8 dexterity and a tower shield you still will get a succesful check on a skill check of 20..



Oooh, Good to know! :)
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Post by Scottg »

I just checked on the Fighter's skills - no Heal. (..freak'in stupid). :mad:

They do get Lore though.. whoopie! :rolleyes:
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Claudius
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Post by Claudius »

Hey for a fighter its a skill to know which end of the sword to hold :D
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:Hey for a fighter its a skill to know which end of the sword to hold :D
:laugh:
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