A question about Tolkeins works

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:59 am

I have everything that was tanslated in dutch. But I want too read the English ones as well. Which books are must haves. The following are already on there way.

The Hobbit
The Lord of the Rings
The Silmarillion
All twelve of the History of Middle-Earth

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:02 am

I'd suggest the LOTR. It's his most mature, finished, and ambitious work.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:07 am

The hobbit and LotR are good books with a good story.
I look at other books of tolkien as "probably not so good books", and I don't want to read those...dunno what he wrote first but I feel that they are ripoffs.

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:01 pm

Originally posted by fable:
I'd suggest the LOTR. It's his most mature, finished, and ambitious work.

The Silmarillion is the work you just described, not TLOTR. Sil. is the most philosophically rich text, though most people have difficulty reading it, as the language and structure too academic to be in most folk's comfort zones. The stories within the Silmarillion have as deep a sense of immersion, though TLOTRs contains a wonderful, and much longer single narrative.

Robyn: You're right, the Silmarillion & TLOTR were ripped off of the Hobbit. I can't believe that guy, I mean, he was so into the money he got from the sales of the hobbit, he just kept on writing stories to finance his yachts, houses, mistresses, etc. Great point.

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:54 pm

@Witch King : I knew my instinct was correct! Thanks! You've just made my day (eh... I mean tomorrow

)Silmarillion is the one I've bought and waits for me to read it as soon as I finish LOTR.

Cheers

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:03 pm

I'm a big fan of the LOTR and Hobbit, but yes, the Sil is well out of my league, though I do find it immersive.

It's just not the kind of thing you just sit down and read... takes more effort and a consisten focus.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:19 pm

Possible Spoilers

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@Foul: Yeah i like Silmarilion alot too.
Can't decide which books i like more, but Silmarillion is really good once you read LoTR because it explains all the names and stuff mentioned in the book.
Ancalogan the Black, Feanor, Beren and Luthien, Gil-Gilad, Earendil, Morgoth, etc...

It was a bit difficult at first with all the names, and i came expecting another LoTR so i skimmed through it too fast, and lost my self. So i reread and it turned out amazing.

Its so grand and to me it makes Elrond appear nearly not as great as he is, although stiill amazing, mainly because he seems weaker than people like Ingwe, Feanor or Fingolfin, and how much weaker Sauron is compared to the real Enemy.

Anyway read all the books.
They all are a must have.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:39 pm

Originally posted by Witch King:
The Silmarillion is the work you just described, not TLOTR.

I read the Silmarillion, and found it engrossing on an intellectual level, only. LOTR is IMO his most finished work--a work intended for the public, and the most ambitious of his pieces of fiction.

But then, you're just trying to egg me into an argument, aren't you?

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:35 pm

The 15 books I mentioned are already ordered and will join the dutch translations in about a week. I kinda meant if there are others I should order as well.

@Rob-hin; LMAO wether or not that's a good thing is for you too decide.

@Knight Errant: I agree. it takes a lot more effort too read the Silmarilion.

*Witch King: ROFLMAO Soo that's why he wrote LOTR, now it's all become clear.

@fable:

and the most ambitious of his pieces of fiction.

No it wasn't.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:46 pm

Trying not to sound cliche, but I like LOTR's the most. Not because millions of other people do, but because they are truly a work of fictional art, and that they clearly defined the parametres of fantasy novels and games for the future.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:11 pm

Originally posted by fable:
But then, you're just trying to egg me into an argument, aren't you?

How'd ya guess?

I'm with the crowd in saying that LotR is his best work.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:32 pm

You could try "Unfinished Tales" ,Gandalfgal, if you haven't already.

Or perhaps a biography?

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:45 pm

Originally posted by Omar:
You could try "Unfinished Tales" ,Gandalfgal, if you haven't already. Or perhaps a biography?

I've read the dutch translation. Seeing great stories unfinished, I don't know if I would want too read them again, even in English. I've also read the biographies I could find on the net, I don't think I would want too buy one.

Edit: What's the title of the book that includes his essay on fairy stories, I would very much like too read that in English.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Gandalfgal The Talking Variant ]

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:32 pm

Here is a thorough list of the books:
[url="http://www.photovault.com/Link/mithrandir/booklist.html"]http://www.photovault.com/Link/mithrandir/booklist.html[/url]

If you have any specific questions about any of them, let me know and I'll fill you in.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:50 pm

Originally posted by Gandalfgal The Talking Variant:
Edit: What's the title of the book that includes his essay on fairy stories, I would very much like too read that in English.

Tree and Leaf - as well as the essay on fairy stories, it has a story called Leaf By Niggle. Interesting reading.

Edit: just checked this on Amazon, and apparently the new edition has some more stuff in it... well, the one I read was from 1970

It's probably available in various other collections of Tolkien's essays as well, I imagine.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Georgi ]

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:36 pm

Man, I really enjoy this SYM board, I only posted on BG2 b4.!

@Fable and all those who call LOTR his finished fictional work an such, obviously it is, but the Sil would have been too if he hadnt died before completion. The biggest problem with it, is that it hasnt been edited to the degree that LOTR has, like comparing a slab of press board and a polished oak table.

And out of curiousity, what came first, D&D or LOTR, because they have a lot of similarities.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:57 pm

@KE, what do you think of the fiction of other members of Tolkien's literary circle, CS Lewis and and ER Eddison, in particular?

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:43 pm

Originally posted by Georgi:
Tree and Leaf - as well as the essay on fairy stories, it has a story called Leaf By Niggle. Interesting reading.

Edit: just checked this on Amazon, and apparently the new edition has some more stuff in it... well, the one I read was from 1970 It's probably available in various other collections of Tolkien's essays as well, I imagine.

1970

Thanks for the info, so I'll order that one as well. If my book store can get it. It seems the combination of Tales from the Perilous Realm and The Monsters and the Critics should get me both the essay and the story as well.

@WK and all others: Thanks for the info.

@KE: The Sil would have never been finished.

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:14 pm

Originally posted by Knight Errant:
...And out of curiousity, what came first, D&D or LOTR, because they have a lot of similarities.

I had sincerelyhoped not to live to ever hear this question. The answer is that Tolkien ripped almost ALL of his **** directly from Gary Gygax (the guy who started D&D). The thing that pisses me of is that Gygax hardly ever gets the credit. Good for you for asking.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:21 pm

I had sincerelyhoped not to live to ever hear this question. The answer is that
Tolkien ripped almost ALL of his **** directly from Gary Gygax (the guy who
started D&D). The thing that pisses me of is that Gygax hardly ever gets the
credit. Good for you for asking.

It's funny because you contradict yourself.
I had sincerelyhoped not to live to ever hear this question.

THEN

Good for you for asking

What

@KE, what do you think of the fiction of other members of Tolkien's literary circle,
CS Lewis and and ER Eddison, in particular?

I must confess, I have never heard of Eddison, nor have my parents and friends who've I've talked to lately.
Lewis work, is good, but I always found it lacking the same edge as Tolkiens work. It just wasn't as exciting. Maybe I'm just too young.
Or your too old

Seriously however,I've only read LOTR recently, and a variety of newer fictions, none of which are worth mentoining, though the Krondor series has its merits as a fun read.