Hi -- I'm somewhat new to NWN/2 -- I've owned the game since it came out but never really played it much until now... I am familar with RPGs and the general idea behind most classes etc but I am in no way an expert on NWN or the dos and donts of class building -- I've never beaten even the OC yet...
Anyways, I want to immerse myself in this game for awhile and play it, MOTB, and the new XP when it comes out. I have three classes I am interested in playing and I am looking for help... I'll put them in order of favorites to try.
1) Dark/Evil Knight (read blackguard) with access to necromancy or combat oriented spells. I've always liked shadowknights etc and I'd like to make a character who has the ability to smash some faces in plate armor, preferably with a two-handed sword or scythe, and at the same time have an undead summon and maybe some low level necro/cleric type spells. Here are some ideas I was thinking about:
1.1 Make an evil cleric, take the death and trickery domain (for feint), or undeath and trickery, and then build up to blackguard. I'm not sure how this would be finished, but I think this might be a decent build -- but I'd appreciate feedback on feats to avoid/take or if the domain choices are garbage or what. Would a level of rogue or assassin be helpful to add to the sneak attack/bluff checks for feint? (There is something very enthralling about sneak attacking with a gigantic sword and then cleaving...)
1.2 Maybe a favored soul to blackguard combination could work better than the cleric version, so I can get free weapon feats (scythe or greatsword, etc)... thoughts?
1.3 Paladin or Fighter --> Blackguard?
1.4 Some combination of all of these?
2: Necromancer (sorcerer or wizard to pale-master, not sure on other multiclassing). In general are summons any good at mid/late levels and/or necromancy spells in general?
3: Rogue/Ninja based character that uses daggers for maximum melee-carnage...
3.1 I like the idea of "invisible blade" and "Assassin" but it seems like the assassin skills really aren't all that good and you can get HIPS from one level of shadow dancer... what's a good way to make a dex-sneaker using daggers to melt faces?
3.2 Anyone try a ninja-like variant? (e.g. monk or rogue-type class played with light/little/no armor and using exotic weapons (e.g. shuriken) and poison/traps, etc?
4: Psionic (mind-based/enchanter-type) who focuses on mind control/debuff/haste/debuff type magic for the rest of the party... maybe a straight up sorcerer would work for this?
Appreciate any and all comments!
Newbie seeking build advice (x4).
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wovenshadow
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:00 pm
- Contact:
I'll suggest something for 1 and maybe later work up something for the others. One at a time! Since you are new to the game you probably want to play something pretty straightforward/effective. For the blackguard I think you'd want that build to have high STR and CHA. For that reason I think you want a RDD build to give high scores in both those stats.
Human
Str 14 Con 14 CHA 14 WIS 14
All stat increases to CHA until 20 which will give STR 22 CHA 21. Then take the next two increases to strength which finishes you with 24 STR 22 CHA
1 Bard 1 Able Learner Combat Expertise
2 Favored Soul 1
3 Favored Soul 2 Feint
4 Favored Soul 3 Weapon Focus: by Deity (look for greatsword or scythe or greataxe)
5 Favored Soul 4
6 Red Dragon Disciple (RDD) 1 Power Attack
7 RDD 2
8 RDD 3
9 RDD 4 Practiced Caster Favored Soul
10 RDD 5
11 RDD 6
12 RDD 7 Cleave
13 RDD 8
14 RDD 9
15 RDD 10 Monkey Grip (Great Cleave if you are using a Longsword)
16 Blackguard 1
17 Blackguard 2
18 Black guard 3 Divine Shield
19 Favored Soul 5
20 Favored Soul 6
21 Blackguard 4 Divine Might
22 Favored Soul 7
23 Favored Soul 8 Epic Divine Might
24 Favored Soul 9
25 Favored Soul 10 Extend Spell
26 Favored Soul 11
27 Favored Soul 12 Great Charisma 1
28 Favored Soul 13
29 Favored Soul 14 Epic Prowess
30 Favored Soul 15
Skills Max Bluff, 8 Lore, 5 Hide, 3 Perform....rest your choice: tumble umd spellcraft taunt eg
Don't pick fire as a FS energy resistance
This build the blackguard summon won't be useful by the time you get it. I think you'd have to make a Fighter 6 and pick Blackguard at level 7-13 and then the summon would be useful in the middle part of the game...but the summon ain't that great in any case.
You might want to take Longsword (Cyric) if you want to use a shield more easily but then no cool giant weapon
Your charisma score will grant you a lot of turn undead attempts which power divine shield and epic divine might. With a item +8 you will have a lot of uses but not limitless. Only use the divine shield when you are being hit a lot. If you really feel too limited by the turning attempts then you might be better off going for only 20 CHA and the rest in STR and take 18 FS for 9th level spells and take a level of cleric for trickery-feint/divine might. This will free up many feats for whatever. Another idea is warlock instead of cleric if you really want the saves. I'm not sure but if I took the level of cleric I might try taking STR domain. That might apply to favored soul too and grant divine power 3rd level...but I don't think so.
Human
Str 14 Con 14 CHA 14 WIS 14
All stat increases to CHA until 20 which will give STR 22 CHA 21. Then take the next two increases to strength which finishes you with 24 STR 22 CHA
1 Bard 1 Able Learner Combat Expertise
2 Favored Soul 1
3 Favored Soul 2 Feint
4 Favored Soul 3 Weapon Focus: by Deity (look for greatsword or scythe or greataxe)
5 Favored Soul 4
6 Red Dragon Disciple (RDD) 1 Power Attack
7 RDD 2
8 RDD 3
9 RDD 4 Practiced Caster Favored Soul
10 RDD 5
11 RDD 6
12 RDD 7 Cleave
13 RDD 8
14 RDD 9
15 RDD 10 Monkey Grip (Great Cleave if you are using a Longsword)
16 Blackguard 1
17 Blackguard 2
18 Black guard 3 Divine Shield
19 Favored Soul 5
20 Favored Soul 6
21 Blackguard 4 Divine Might
22 Favored Soul 7
23 Favored Soul 8 Epic Divine Might
24 Favored Soul 9
25 Favored Soul 10 Extend Spell
26 Favored Soul 11
27 Favored Soul 12 Great Charisma 1
28 Favored Soul 13
29 Favored Soul 14 Epic Prowess
30 Favored Soul 15
Skills Max Bluff, 8 Lore, 5 Hide, 3 Perform....rest your choice: tumble umd spellcraft taunt eg
Don't pick fire as a FS energy resistance
This build the blackguard summon won't be useful by the time you get it. I think you'd have to make a Fighter 6 and pick Blackguard at level 7-13 and then the summon would be useful in the middle part of the game...but the summon ain't that great in any case.
You might want to take Longsword (Cyric) if you want to use a shield more easily but then no cool giant weapon
Your charisma score will grant you a lot of turn undead attempts which power divine shield and epic divine might. With a item +8 you will have a lot of uses but not limitless. Only use the divine shield when you are being hit a lot. If you really feel too limited by the turning attempts then you might be better off going for only 20 CHA and the rest in STR and take 18 FS for 9th level spells and take a level of cleric for trickery-feint/divine might. This will free up many feats for whatever. Another idea is warlock instead of cleric if you really want the saves. I'm not sure but if I took the level of cleric I might try taking STR domain. That might apply to favored soul too and grant divine power 3rd level...but I don't think so.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
1. Get SOZ (the latest module).. it has at least one "critical" spell for a cleric based character. After that, THEN use the auto-patch that the DVD has and update to the latest patch. Yes, the patches are important.
2. Note that with the exception of alignment, a build is as evil or as good as you want it to be.. in other-words don't get trapped into a particular class because it requires an evil alignment - IF it doesn't have what you really want. The Blackguard is a "good" example: if it doesn't have the features you want, or perhaps isn't entirely as you envisioned your character.. then by all means choose another class combination. Try to stay focused on the fundamentals of the build itself.. strong melee? sneak attack? magic attack? high saves or spell resistance? etc. Note that wanting "everything" never works out, there is ALWAYS a compromise.
3. The OC (original campaign), plays for 20 levels (on a human) - is stronger with melee at lower levels and conversely stronger with good/excellent magic at higher levels. MOTB on the other hand is *story-wise* a continuation of the OC up to 30 levels.. BUT it isn't very good for magic, nor is it good for sneak attack damage UNLESS you have Epic Precision. I believe that SOZ is unrelated to either and plays for about 15 levels.
..with that out of the way.
Evil Cleric.. think Cleric, Favored Soul, Spririt Shaman, or Druid - as a base. For role-playing I'd probably stick to a Cleric.. with some additions, OR possibly a Favored Soul. For ease I'd go with a pure Favored Soul, but in your case I'd actually recommend a Cleric (base). Why? 1. You seem pretty knowledgeable. 2. A Favored Soul tops-out at 20 levels, which makes MOTB a bit redundant.. You could add-on 10 levels of Blackguard (with an FS), but the sneak attack would be nearly useless. 3. An evil cleric just "fits" better for role-playing.:mischief:
Ok then.. my recommendation:
1. Clerics have some of the best summons available.
2. Clerics *can* enhance their attack and weapon damage. Some of the lesser enhancements can (at very high levels) be "always-on" - which is important for MOTB's limited magic use. (..note that perhaps one of the best 2nd levels spells - immunity to criticals and sneak attack damage *may* be the "always-on" variety, and is ONLY available with the SOZ expansion.)
3. Clerics can wear full armor and use shields, but are limited to basic weapons.
Ok then - considering MOTB, and the occasional but necessary improvement in BAB - one of the 2 domains MUST be "Strength". This gives you Divine Power at 3rd level in addition to 4th level - effectively providing you with a great many additional spell slots for this fantastic "attack" spell (..one that unfortunately is NOT an "always-on" capable spell).
Like-wise your second domain should also be based on access to spells. In this case Haste, not available to Clerics generally - IS available through 2 domains, AND one of them is at 3rd level with the ability for "always-on" use. That domain is Time. Access to the spell Premonition is ALSO a *big* plus with the Time domain.
OK then - we have a Cleric with the Strength and Time domains. Next we need to look at enhancing the base class - getting maximum *practical* value while still keeping to the "evil" aspect. From here we need to look at limitations.
We want damage and attack increases if possible - that is a Strength based attribute - difficult when we consider that Wisdom is essential for spell casting with a Cleric. Furthermore we know that magic and "limited use" special abilities are very limited in use in MOTB. With that in mind I'll remove some considerations:
1. Divine Might/Divine Shield is *out*. Each takes up a precious feat (..and Epic Divine Might is another feat). Each requires good Charisma for operation - and Epic Divine Might requires a 21 Charisma (plus a 21 in Strength). Furthermore, the base Divine Might doesn't provide that much damage for much time, nor does Divine Shield provide that much protection for that long - UNLESS you have an excellent Charisma. IMO I'd rather have a Higher Attack bonus *AND* Damage bonus that additional Strength modifiers can provide - ALL THE TIME, as opposed to limited number and duration modifier that only improves damage. If you really want this then look to Claudius's suggestion - his build actually gets you this (with the strength damage), BUT it does so with a *very* limited number of uses per day.
2. SOZ's Doomguide is out - its for lawful neutral characters - you want an evil one.
3. Warpriest is out - it has only 2 things going for it: A. High BAB (which you don't need most of the time and can be *more* than compensated for with Divine Power), and B. Fear aura - which is dependent on class level AND CHARISMA. Worse - it only provides spell additions only every other level.
3. Blackguard is out - sneak attack is worthless against critically immune opponents - of which there are many in both the OC and MOTB. You'll have plenty of summoning spells (and better ones than the Blackguard's summons). Its save modifier is dependent on Charisma. No continuation of Cleric spells.
4. Divine Champion is out - most of the special features are Charisma-based and are limited in uses per day. The special save feature is fairly poor. No continuation of Cleric spells.
With that out of the way lets look at what we do have:
Stormlord! Not only does it give additional damage at higher levels that can be used all the time without resting - but the class also gives bonus attack numbers (weapon specific) THAT STACK WITH OTHER BONUS Attack SPELLS AND other attribute bonuses. Also - the storm God Talos is EVIL!:mischief:
Don't forget the reduction (and eventual immunity) to electricity. Most importantly though it continues on the same with your cleric spell progression. Finally, though only once per day and of *very* limited use (in MOTB at least) - Extended Storm Avatar is actually useful (..in duration and effect). The class does cost feats however - but ultimately its worth it.
Most of the rest of the build should be Cleric.. for the higher spell levels, additional spells at each level, increased spell penetration, and additional feats at epic levels. However..
If you want you can also consider adding 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker at later levels to the build (at least after you have reached level 9 spells). The 5th level of Frenzied Berserker gets you additional monster damage with improved power attack at a -6 to your attack (via Enhanced Power Attack). (Its +20 damage with each hit with a 2-handed weapon used as a 2-handed weapon and in improved power attack mode.) Its an *option*, and still a good and reasonable one. It will however require one extra feat expenditure (improved power attack) over the other feats that are pretty much mandatory to this build (..power attack, cleave, great cleave). It also doesn't work with Monkey Grip/one handed with shield operation - so when taking advantage of its monster damage bonus you will have less AC then you might otherwise have available (..though probably not a problem with Premonition casted). This class will also give you Supreme Cleave which is also very nice (..though not as significant as Enhanced Power Attack can be).
So the basic build then is:
Cleric/Stormlord with potentially 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker after achieving level 9 spell casting capability. Wisdom and Strength with moderate to minor emphasis on the other attributes.
2. Note that with the exception of alignment, a build is as evil or as good as you want it to be.. in other-words don't get trapped into a particular class because it requires an evil alignment - IF it doesn't have what you really want. The Blackguard is a "good" example: if it doesn't have the features you want, or perhaps isn't entirely as you envisioned your character.. then by all means choose another class combination. Try to stay focused on the fundamentals of the build itself.. strong melee? sneak attack? magic attack? high saves or spell resistance? etc. Note that wanting "everything" never works out, there is ALWAYS a compromise.
3. The OC (original campaign), plays for 20 levels (on a human) - is stronger with melee at lower levels and conversely stronger with good/excellent magic at higher levels. MOTB on the other hand is *story-wise* a continuation of the OC up to 30 levels.. BUT it isn't very good for magic, nor is it good for sneak attack damage UNLESS you have Epic Precision. I believe that SOZ is unrelated to either and plays for about 15 levels.
..with that out of the way.
Evil Cleric.. think Cleric, Favored Soul, Spririt Shaman, or Druid - as a base. For role-playing I'd probably stick to a Cleric.. with some additions, OR possibly a Favored Soul. For ease I'd go with a pure Favored Soul, but in your case I'd actually recommend a Cleric (base). Why? 1. You seem pretty knowledgeable. 2. A Favored Soul tops-out at 20 levels, which makes MOTB a bit redundant.. You could add-on 10 levels of Blackguard (with an FS), but the sneak attack would be nearly useless. 3. An evil cleric just "fits" better for role-playing.:mischief:
Ok then.. my recommendation:
1. Clerics have some of the best summons available.
2. Clerics *can* enhance their attack and weapon damage. Some of the lesser enhancements can (at very high levels) be "always-on" - which is important for MOTB's limited magic use. (..note that perhaps one of the best 2nd levels spells - immunity to criticals and sneak attack damage *may* be the "always-on" variety, and is ONLY available with the SOZ expansion.)
3. Clerics can wear full armor and use shields, but are limited to basic weapons.
Ok then - considering MOTB, and the occasional but necessary improvement in BAB - one of the 2 domains MUST be "Strength". This gives you Divine Power at 3rd level in addition to 4th level - effectively providing you with a great many additional spell slots for this fantastic "attack" spell (..one that unfortunately is NOT an "always-on" capable spell).
Like-wise your second domain should also be based on access to spells. In this case Haste, not available to Clerics generally - IS available through 2 domains, AND one of them is at 3rd level with the ability for "always-on" use. That domain is Time. Access to the spell Premonition is ALSO a *big* plus with the Time domain.
OK then - we have a Cleric with the Strength and Time domains. Next we need to look at enhancing the base class - getting maximum *practical* value while still keeping to the "evil" aspect. From here we need to look at limitations.
We want damage and attack increases if possible - that is a Strength based attribute - difficult when we consider that Wisdom is essential for spell casting with a Cleric. Furthermore we know that magic and "limited use" special abilities are very limited in use in MOTB. With that in mind I'll remove some considerations:
1. Divine Might/Divine Shield is *out*. Each takes up a precious feat (..and Epic Divine Might is another feat). Each requires good Charisma for operation - and Epic Divine Might requires a 21 Charisma (plus a 21 in Strength). Furthermore, the base Divine Might doesn't provide that much damage for much time, nor does Divine Shield provide that much protection for that long - UNLESS you have an excellent Charisma. IMO I'd rather have a Higher Attack bonus *AND* Damage bonus that additional Strength modifiers can provide - ALL THE TIME, as opposed to limited number and duration modifier that only improves damage. If you really want this then look to Claudius's suggestion - his build actually gets you this (with the strength damage), BUT it does so with a *very* limited number of uses per day.
2. SOZ's Doomguide is out - its for lawful neutral characters - you want an evil one.
3. Warpriest is out - it has only 2 things going for it: A. High BAB (which you don't need most of the time and can be *more* than compensated for with Divine Power), and B. Fear aura - which is dependent on class level AND CHARISMA. Worse - it only provides spell additions only every other level.
3. Blackguard is out - sneak attack is worthless against critically immune opponents - of which there are many in both the OC and MOTB. You'll have plenty of summoning spells (and better ones than the Blackguard's summons). Its save modifier is dependent on Charisma. No continuation of Cleric spells.
4. Divine Champion is out - most of the special features are Charisma-based and are limited in uses per day. The special save feature is fairly poor. No continuation of Cleric spells.
With that out of the way lets look at what we do have:
Stormlord! Not only does it give additional damage at higher levels that can be used all the time without resting - but the class also gives bonus attack numbers (weapon specific) THAT STACK WITH OTHER BONUS Attack SPELLS AND other attribute bonuses. Also - the storm God Talos is EVIL!:mischief:
Don't forget the reduction (and eventual immunity) to electricity. Most importantly though it continues on the same with your cleric spell progression. Finally, though only once per day and of *very* limited use (in MOTB at least) - Extended Storm Avatar is actually useful (..in duration and effect). The class does cost feats however - but ultimately its worth it.
Most of the rest of the build should be Cleric.. for the higher spell levels, additional spells at each level, increased spell penetration, and additional feats at epic levels. However..
If you want you can also consider adding 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker at later levels to the build (at least after you have reached level 9 spells). The 5th level of Frenzied Berserker gets you additional monster damage with improved power attack at a -6 to your attack (via Enhanced Power Attack). (Its +20 damage with each hit with a 2-handed weapon used as a 2-handed weapon and in improved power attack mode.) Its an *option*, and still a good and reasonable one. It will however require one extra feat expenditure (improved power attack) over the other feats that are pretty much mandatory to this build (..power attack, cleave, great cleave). It also doesn't work with Monkey Grip/one handed with shield operation - so when taking advantage of its monster damage bonus you will have less AC then you might otherwise have available (..though probably not a problem with Premonition casted). This class will also give you Supreme Cleave which is also very nice (..though not as significant as Enhanced Power Attack can be).
So the basic build then is:
Cleric/Stormlord with potentially 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker after achieving level 9 spell casting capability. Wisdom and Strength with moderate to minor emphasis on the other attributes.
3. You need HIPs pretty much for a good rogue..yes SD is much better than assassin because it saves levels for something else...only reason for assassin is if you are very feat starved and can't take dodge/mobility...or you can't fit rogue/SD in I mean you have used 3/4 class slots.
You want 10 levels of Rogue for Epic Precision without which you become pretty useless. 16 levels grants epic dodge (def roll, imp evasion) (or 13 with monk 9).
I would think monk would be good with PTWF because flurry/great flurry doubles to each hand but you need to use kamas instead of daggers (hey if its got a blade consider it a dagger with a funny name)
Rogue 13/Monk 13 for SR which leaves 4 levels If you want to play any race you want then probably take DC 2 SD 2...you might even be able to use the DC level to add more SR feat. If SR stuff stacks I'd consider deep gnome or drow. You could also go Rogue 16/Monk 13/SD1 deep gnome and use the extra bonus rogue feat for more SR.
I like SR on characters especially rogues with their horrible saves (though monk will make it much better).
My opinion of Invisible Blade is that it costs too much feats unless you are making a feinter. It would have the use of keeping the BAB to 26 or 21 while trying to achieve some damage/hit.
You want 10 levels of Rogue for Epic Precision without which you become pretty useless. 16 levels grants epic dodge (def roll, imp evasion) (or 13 with monk 9).
I would think monk would be good with PTWF because flurry/great flurry doubles to each hand but you need to use kamas instead of daggers (hey if its got a blade consider it a dagger with a funny name)
Rogue 13/Monk 13 for SR which leaves 4 levels If you want to play any race you want then probably take DC 2 SD 2...you might even be able to use the DC level to add more SR feat. If SR stuff stacks I'd consider deep gnome or drow. You could also go Rogue 16/Monk 13/SD1 deep gnome and use the extra bonus rogue feat for more SR.
I like SR on characters especially rogues with their horrible saves (though monk will make it much better).
My opinion of Invisible Blade is that it costs too much feats unless you are making a feinter. It would have the use of keeping the BAB to 26 or 21 while trying to achieve some damage/hit.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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wovenshadow
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:00 pm
- Contact: