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Battle of the Builds/Game Bitchfest '08:

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Scottg
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Battle of the Builds/Game Bitchfest '08:

Post by Scottg »

I don't know how much of this relates to the game itself vs. the mod "Battle of the Builds", but I'd just like to share some *serious* complaints with others.

(some of the odd behavior I experienced when testing a high level wizard):

1. On at least one occasion the spell Ethereal Jaunt was "seen through" (as if it hadn't been cast).

2. The spell Energy Immunity does NOT show up in this mod (..if its to "balance the mod", well then that's crap - because a dual-wield character with an absurd amount of elemental damage forged into each weapon does so much damage per round that it can kill just about anything in a *single* round - especially if it has attacks of opportunity.)

3. The spell Silence (2nd level cleric/bard) seemingly avoids any spell resistance, saving throw, or spell level immunity calculation. It also seems to penetrate Ethereal Jaunt. Furthermore it seems to extend *well* past the time limit (even if its extended). WTF? The ONLY work-around then is silent spell or auto silent spell (to what ever level). I have NOT tested to see if any of *my* test characters have this absurd capability.

4. I've failed savings throws when the calculation could NOT have failed (i.e. no rolling a "one" and having a LOT more points than the opponent). I've noticed this flaw in MOTB as well. Pisses me off something fierce.

......

*EACH* of the above were unbelievably annoying but..

#1 - was very infrequent.

#2 - I could partially work around it (I think), using other spells and the ring of elemental resistance.

#4 - It didn't appear that Spell Resistance calculations (in general) were fubar'ed, so I still had a variety of options/spells (despite never being able to surpass an opponent's save).

BUT,

I just couldn't get around #3 in a satisfactory manner.

That was pretty much it - GAME OVER. :mad:

..........

The simple fact is that an Epic Level Wizard (properly equipped with equipment and spells) should be able to take-out ANYTHING.

I was working on just such a build, but there seemed to be SO many things wrong within "Battle of the Builds" that it just isn't a good environment for testing magical characters.

........

Oh, and I'll add on other thing:

There isn't a spell in-game to lower AC, and that's profoundly screwed up - it directly effects your ability to disable an opponent (or hit it with a touch or ranged attack). The reason it's truly fubar'ed?

Virtually all good epic levels builds will make a save and/or have freedom of movement and immunity from mind effects. (Most disabling spells are mind effect spells, the ones that aren't are usually based on a fortitude save.) This removes ALL spells BUT the Bigby's Hands spells with a grapple component. Unfortunately though the grapple component checks against the opponent's AC level, and fairly high AC levels will defeat the spell's grapple.
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Claudius
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Post by Claudius »

Sorry I don't know much about the BoB but I know another one that maybe does not have these probs. Or maybe does. I'd also suggest e-mailing Elysius (he's the creator, no?) about the BoB.

The other thing similar to BoB you might want to try is Mithdradates Hall of Training. You can probably find it on IGN? NWN2 Vault

The saves might be due to RWoT bug that allows bonuses to DC in excess of what should be possible. a RWoT built correctly doesn't even need assay against a drow or deep gnome.
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

I'll look into "Mithdradates Hall of Training", thanks!

As for BoB, I'll think I'll just give up on it for the time being. It is excellent for testing melee type classes, and if I'll do anymore of those I don't think I'll have a problem with it.

"Assay" only helps with spell resistance, nothing for DC checks. For the most part Spell Resistance isn't a problem. Really its nothing more than Caster level + Spell Penetration feat bonuses + d20 "roll". You can of course increase with Assay for +10 and decrease your opponents SR by -10 (with MD). A "net" level 29 Wizard WITHOUT bonus feats (or spells modifications) should be able to penetrate the SR of a Drow (lvl 30) almost 50% of the time. Use Assay in the same scenario and it should work about 90+% of the time. Use MD with Assay and you can penetrate ANYTHING.

Assay Resistance ALSO isn't an attack, so Ethereal Jaunt stays "up".

.......

DC and savings throws are another matter, even if they did work correctly.

The funny thing is that even a "High" save character (for a particular savings throw) isn't all that high at level 30:

Saving throw - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki

17

Even if you max multi-class (with all High saves for a particular save), the best you'll achieve is:

21

Of course you'll likely have attribute bonuses in that same save category, and probably a fairly high bonus at that.

Considering

YOUR 10 + spell level + attribute bonus (and any bonus feats), there is a good chance you won't overcome the save in that particular category.

This makes high charisma with Save modifier(s) somewhat unfair to casters. Still though - there are ways around this (which is partly why I was exploring the build). :o

......

The real killer though was that absurd "silent spell" thing. I mean why should I waste 4 feats to get auto silent to level 9 for this build?

I pretty sure I know whats wrong here:

Effectively at the start of the match (the "buffing period"), OR when in "Ethereal Jaunt" -

you are considered:

AN ALLY.

And as the spell "Silence" description reads:

"If cast on an ally, no saving throws or spell resistance checks are necessary."

Worse, the AI seems to know this and take full advantage of it.

Now the initial "buffing period" portion (of BoB) is an expected scripting problem, but the problem with Ethereal Jaunt maybe a bug/oversight in the game? (..perhaps you can't easily alter the AI's behavior, which would allow a "cure" for the problem?)

Still, the combination produces horrendous results for Magic Casters.
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

I'm seriously considering a write-up on the use of Wizards (i.e spells to use when and how, feats to choose, etc.).
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