Fable lad, Salvatore bein' a bad writer?

Armadin of Clan Geddin · Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:59 pm

Alright, let's get this discussion goin'.

Ye said ye thinked Salvatore were an inferior writer.

Why?

Methinks ha be quite good actually. I've enjoyed the Dark Elf Trilogy very much, an' I must admit they're worth their classic status.
Admitted, he sometimes uses the same words a bit too much to me likin', but that be it.

Now ye go.

Oh, an' I just got meself Lord o' the Rings.

I just hefta read that one before the film be released. Hope it be as good as it be said to be

.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:32 pm

Hey, Fable! When was the last time you were called a 'lad'?

Armadin: Before Fable flames you in so may ways you'll think you were a marshmallow in a blast furnace, I suggest you check out Fable's responses in the [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=003670"]LotR[/url] thread from a few months ago. This will be a good preview of what Fable is going to say when he answers you. Salvatore isn't specifically mentioned in that thread, but I'll be willing to bet Fable's response to you will be similar.

Good luck, buddy. You'll need it. (j/k)

[ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: Gwalchmai ]

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 3:34 pm

There be strength in numbers, suren there is friend Guacomoli. Me and Armadin of Clan Geddin be not afeard of dis here fable's mincin' with word and letters and runes and numbers like he owned dem. Suren he'll resem'el me anvil, batter'd and bruis'd, hisself feeling 'ike one o dem poor liddle unbearded dwarfling lads he's thrown widdout proper cause!

Anyway, I think the jury is still out on Salvatore. He's still a relatively young writer, and might have a masterpiece tucked somewhere in his cranium. Is he a better writer than Tolkien? I doubt it, but that's besides the point. I've enjoyed reading the Icewind Dale and Dark Elf books as much as Lord of The Rings, and have re-read certain chapters in "Homeland" as much as I've re-read "The Pelennor Fields" in LOTR. But if a writer's aim is to entertain and instruct his readers, personally I'd have to choose Salvatore over Tolkien. His books are easier to read, and his characters are more realistic. I can relate to Drizzt, Catti-Brie, Jarlaxle and Entreri much more than I could to Gandalf, Aragorn, Bilbo and Frodo, all of whom possessed a mystical halo of immortality akin to faeries and Beowulf-life characters instead of ordinary human beings.

That's it for now. I'm out of time. Life beckons...

...

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 3:42 pm

Guacomoli? He he. That's a good one! I like it!

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 5:24 pm

Salvatore is pretty good and is quite entertaining. Anybody notice how better written the dark elf trioligy was than the Icewind Dale trioligy? I guess he got better after IWD.

April: When spam reamained strong
May: When the non spammers came and the spamemrs got jobs.
June: Some spammers return to revive the boards from the doldrum.

[ 06-16-2001: Message edited by: ThorinOakensfield ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 9:28 pm

Gwalchmai writes:
Armadin: Before Fable flames you in so may ways you'll think you were a marshmallow in a blast furnace...

Heh! And you're right, it's been quite a while since I was called a "lad," at least three, possibly four decades.

As to Salvatore, tell ya what I'm a-gonna do: not having read him in a while, I'll check out a book or two from the library, reread it, and answer with quoted examples. That's fairer to him, and easier on discussion.

However, if you want to discuss any fantasy writing in the meantime, I would recommend we temporarily shunt this thread over to Tolkien. Fair enough?

Armadin of Clan Geddin · Sun Jun 17, 2001 9:02 am

Originally posted by fable:
However, if you want to discuss any fantasy writing in the meantime, I would recommend we temporarily shunt this thread over to Tolkien. Fair enough?

Well, I still have to be readin' me newly-acquired Lord o' the Rings, so nay.....

CM · Post by CM » Sun Jun 17, 2001 10:59 am

Why not change this not a good books thread??
Tolkien is the God of fantasy novels.
Lord of the Rings is excellent as is the hobbit.
His other books on the history of the middle earth are also good, i think only one is still in print the Smi something or the other.

But Terry Brooks and his 8 books on the land of Shannara are also damn good.
What books would you guys recommend?

[ 06-17-2001: Message edited by: Fas ]

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 11:17 am

Simmarilion; history of the Elves of Middle-Earth.
Mayeb we should write Simmarilion; History of Gamebanshee Forums.
At first there was god. God created man, and give them fire and so on. Man created pcs and microsoft. A pc game named Baldur's Gate 2 came to existence and made roleplaying games popular once more. The craze took over the world. A man named Buck decided to create a message board where things about the game could be disscussed. From this shot of more foums, and then people came. Only about 1000 of them. They disscused BG and BG2, but they had other intersts. Buck had to control these crazy people and sent them to a dungeon named SYM. A man named Sleep inventd spam. These people became the spammers and were taught by sleep. They were the grand spammers. then I joined. A week later BGdungeon shut down and 500 more people moved here. It was crazy. But even after the shutdown of bgdungeon and the movement of its inhabitants more people came. Soon there were over 2000 members. The old spamemres were overwhelmed and hid away. But their name continued. However the old spammers past down the skill of flame and spam to other people and the world became slightly better. More forums were created , but bg2 and SYm remained the largest. BG2 was taken over by the new people. SYm changed from a prison for the spammers, to a sanctuary for anybody that still believed in the now ancient art of spam. But through all this turmoil Sleep remained, and the old spammers lignered around.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Jun 17, 2001 11:43 am

Hilarious.
But who exactly are these exalted spammers??
And where can i learn this magnificant art??

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 2:20 pm

Not wanting to appear be lazy by succumbing to esoteric acronyms...

Rolling on the floor laughing my arse off!

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 2:33 pm

Originally posted by Fas:
Hilarious.
But who exactly are these exalted spammers??
And where can i learn this magnificant art??

I have searched high and low for these exalted spammers, I believe they have gone MIA. (Missing In Action)

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:19 pm

I've read all but Salvatore's latest, and some more than once, so I'll throw in my two cents here as well.

I started off with the Icewind Dale Trilogy, which frankly, I wasn't too thrilled with. I didn't dislike it, but I didn't particularly like it either. In perspective, Salvatore's original Drizzt was more of a c0cky showboater than a brooding disciplinarian. I didn't really get hooked until I read the Dark Elf Trilogy, where Drizzt became a more fully developed character than he had been in the first three novels. I've been reading ever since. I enjoy Salvatore's novels for what they are: easy reading. But there are a few things that turn me off to them.

For one, while his fight scene imagery can occassionally be fantastic, more often it's just redundant and confusing. I can't even begin to recall how many times, and in how many novels, I've read the line "scimitars whirring." Detail is all well and good, but there have been times where I couldn't even keep up. Personally, I would rather get a more general picture, perhaps with a few of the more clever moves he can come up with given more detail. Variety is absolutely necessary.

Then, of course, there's the blatant Tolkien rip-offs. This was probably one of the main reasons I couldn't enjoy the IWD trilogy very much; the whole concept of a Dwarven King wresting his long-lost homeland from the clutches of a dragon has been before. And Regis' character might as well be named Bilbo, for all intents and purposes.

There's one more thing that tends to bother me about some of Salvatore's work, and that's the sexual innuendo. If it's done right, it can be entertaining, but Salvatore doesn't do it right. Long, flowing hair, big bosoms, and gracefully swaying hips deserve a place in a cheap romance novel, not in high fantasy (though it frequently is).

That said, there are some things in particular that I do enjoy, particularly his visions of the self-destructive world of the drow. I'm also a fan of surprises, when they work, such as Bruenor's reemergence after supposedly being burned alive. I had completely forgotten about Drizzt's scimitar. And then, of course, there's Thibbledorf Pwent and the Gutbuster Brigade from Siege of Darkness. That was entertainment.

I do think Salvatore gets better and better as he continues writing. He just needs some new twists, and some more variety. I haven't read his latest book, The Silent Blade, yet, but it's supposed to be all about Jarlaxle and Artemis Entreri; I don't think Drizzt even makes an appearance. I'll see how that one turns out when I read it.

So then, on to fable's careful, calculated, and systematic destruction.

[ 06-17-2001: Message edited by: TheHellion ]

Mr Snow · Post by **Mr Snow** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:15 pm

Originally posted by TheHellion:
[QB]And then, of course, there's Thibbledorf Pwent and Gutbuster Brigade from Siege of Darkness. That was entertainment.
QB]

Or Salvatore's Cantical series with those hillarious dwarves, sterling examples of the Dwarven race if ever I've seen one

CM · Post by CM » Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:32 am

Salvatore is a good writer, but i find the way Elaine Cunningham describes her battles more confusing that Salvatore.
Salvatore is by far IMO the easiest to read, and describes his battle scenes beautifully.

As for sexual innuendo's i guess you haven't read Ed Greenwood - another TSR writer - the way the women in his books throw themselves on Elminister and Blackstaff specifically in the Shadows triology is extremely sexist.
And hilarious

While Elaine Cunningham is the true Feminist writer for the TSR world.

What i like about Salvatore's books, is that the character grows and develops in every book.
Its not like Greenwood where Elminister doesn't grow, until the recent books.
Drizzt works through problems and grows at each point, he changes his points of view, does stupid things at points but learns from them.
That gives it a realistic touch.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:36 am

Originally posted by Weasel:
I have searched high and low for these exalted spammers, I believe they have gone MIA. (Missing In Action)

Dang when i wanted to learn something that would truly help me in real life!!!!

Ok i am starting a covert group to bring this spammers back from their prisons.
Who wants to join???

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 2:33 am

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
BG2 was taken over by the new people. SYm changed from a prison for the spammers, to a sanctuary for anybody that still believed in the now ancient art of spam.

That's right! My Shadow Mages and I rule the BG2 board! In your face you old fart spammers! MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

(Okay, I'm in a weird mood now. My post will seem even more odd if you read it out loud with an exaggerated Russian peasant accent ala Triumph the insult comic dog from Late Night with Conan O'Brien.

)

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Kayless ]

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:22 am

Originally posted by TheHellion:
Long, flowing hair, big bosoms, and gracefully swaying hips

I just wanted to read these words again.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:50 pm

Originally posted by Kayless:
That's right! My Shadow Mages and I rule the BG2 board! In your face you old fart spammers! MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (Okay, I'm in a weird mood now. My post will seem even more odd if you read it out loud with an exaggerated Russian peasant accent ala Triumph the insult comic dog from Late Night with Conan O'Brien. )

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Kayless ]

Its over. We're liberating BG2

You're domination with an iron fist is over.

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:54 pm

The word "Salvatore" and the word "author" don't even belong in the same sentence.