[QUOTE=Chanak]I also get the sense that some here think that having compassion for others = coddling addictions or overlooking personal blame for a sorry situation. This accusation is in my eyes a patently absurd one. Drawing on some ridiculous examples of hare-brained ideas or intentions gone wrong fails to paint the entire picture with the same brush. I would remind anyone who claims to be a "realist" to bear in mind that nothing in this world can be perfect...nor can every program designed to help those in need be 100% fraud or abuse free. The answer I see sometimes is a revolting and repugnant one to the thinking mind. Unlike creatures who exist innocently and without the blessing/curse of rational minds, humans are saddled with a responsibility for their own actions. Those who don't practice it and claim to be above such will reap the reward of their own carelessness. History is full of such examples.[/QUOTE]
Most of the neo-selfish, as we might call 'em, suffer from an extreme lack of imagination, and a fear of powerlessness. They aren't by any means among the very wealthiest people, but they identify with their callous opinions, because this somehow shields them from the awareness of their own insecurity. This was the case back in 19th century England, for example, when poverty-stricken Irish voted for the Conservative Party that their absentee English landlords supported. Being able to act cynically about politics and social remedies cut down on the pain of reality, of knowing they were living in abject poverty. And it continues today: my second generation Irish brother-in-law was an ardent and loud supporter of Ronald Reagan, even representing Pennsylvania at the national convention in 1980. No amount of questioning as to why he was supporting a political platform and candidate that didn't offer a shred of support to his economic group could sway him. When in the late 80s he developed major disabilities and discovered that under Reagan, laws that would have helped his payments had been eliminated, he ceased to be very vocal. With three kids, they ended up selling the house, both took jobs, and farmed out the kids.
That is what I wish upon the neo-selfish, as we might call 'em: enlightenment. An awareness of the reality of genuine hardship through no fault of their own, and the attendent problems of finding adequate solutions. I do hope we don't have to go back into another national depression like the one that hit in 1929, for the descendants of the rural belt farmers and cattle belt herders, who blessed the government for its welfare, to grow some empathy. But it just may take that.
"Any spare change?" (minimal spam please)
I've actually saved this entire thread. I find it to be a brilliant testimony of how different cultures have different views on what charity, empathy and social welfare should be. Every nation, including my own, have their own social problems and their own way of viewing and dealing with those problems. Where I live, we have a social welfare umbrella that pics up practically everything. We don't have the sick, crippled, traumatised, old or dispossessed out on the street begging. There isn't any way for a farmer to go bankrupt if the crops fail 2 years in a row. In the unlikely event that he does, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that he will be forced out on the street. None. We have the highest tax level I personally have ever encountered, and I've been around a bit. It goes up, along with unemployment and interest rates, each time we get fat, content and bored enough to ellect a socialist governement. It's become the natural order of things. Just to point something out to you US citizens: Our socialist parties makes your Democrats look like nazis. Two of the most dominant parties before next fall's ellection still read Marx, sing the "International" at the beginning of their meetings and believe that private property and business belong in hell.
This situation has of course changed our view on poverty. We have been on the top of the charity and foreign aid lists for so long, it's become a national joke. We have an annual national charity race, supporting causes like UNICEF, Amnesty, WWF or whathaveye, where the collectors put large stickers on your door saying "YOU DID NOT GIVE! HERE'S OUR ACCOUNT NUMBER..." if you had the audacity to not be home when they came by.
I'm not gonna go into the kind of welfare abuse/cheating that such a system breeds. I'll leave it to each and every one of you to figure it out for yourself. The point I'm trying to make is that in my world, if you stand on a street corner with your hand out, you did it to yourself. Period. What's even worse, you have every chance to get out of there, for free, with a minimum of effort.
So, to get back to DW's initial question, which was a pretty simple one: No, I still don't give spare change to a moron who went to too many raves in the 90s and hasn't got the common sense to take the help offered.
I'll just repeat the original question:
Got any spare change?
This situation has of course changed our view on poverty. We have been on the top of the charity and foreign aid lists for so long, it's become a national joke. We have an annual national charity race, supporting causes like UNICEF, Amnesty, WWF or whathaveye, where the collectors put large stickers on your door saying "YOU DID NOT GIVE! HERE'S OUR ACCOUNT NUMBER..." if you had the audacity to not be home when they came by.
I'm not gonna go into the kind of welfare abuse/cheating that such a system breeds. I'll leave it to each and every one of you to figure it out for yourself. The point I'm trying to make is that in my world, if you stand on a street corner with your hand out, you did it to yourself. Period. What's even worse, you have every chance to get out of there, for free, with a minimum of effort.
So, to get back to DW's initial question, which was a pretty simple one: No, I still don't give spare change to a moron who went to too many raves in the 90s and hasn't got the common sense to take the help offered.
I'll just repeat the original question:
Got any spare change?
I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde
Support bacteria, they're the only culture some people have!
Support bacteria, they're the only culture some people have!
-
jopperm2
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: I'm from Iowa, I just work in space.. Okay the Spa
- Contact:
Well, I promised I would get back to you guys on the whole welfare fraud thing. To tell you the truth, I haven't really looked into it much and I haven't been all that motivated recently but no one is posting right now and I'm about as bored as you can get so I guess I'll post something. I did have a conversation with a friend of mine who was a social worker in Chicago. He quit because he couldn't take it any more. Keep in mind I have also gone through some of these same situations growing up and I have lived in some pretty poor neighborhoods and have known a lot of other people in these same circumstances. In the welfare system here you basically have an interview with a social worker ot some sort of representative or case worker that will be determining what you can get. If you are familiar with the process you can bring everything they will want in one trip and get things done quicker. Basically what they need is proof of income and proof of expenses. Basically, you need to prove that for what you make, you can't afford to live. There are a lot of tricks that will work in order to cheat these requirements.
Income:
*If you can find a way to work on the side for cash and still make decent money then all the money you make cash doesn't count because the rep will not know about it. Most people will be thinking that not a lot of people work for cash anymore, but there are a lot of migrant workers that do agricultural work for cash. Also, any tipped worker like a waitress, cab driver, bar tender, etc. would fall under this category. Most of these people routinely make a habit of only claiming about 10% of their tips. That puts about all of them in the <$10k/yr category which is pretty much going to get benefits every time.
*The other option is people who are actually dependants of someone else, but don't claim to be. You may be claiming that the father of your children is estranged and you don't talk to him any more, but in reality he might as well be married to you. He could be living with you and providing support for you and the kids, and all you have to do is have his mail sent to his mother's house or a po box and the case worker will buy the story. You can get away with making no money at all this way because you can't afford child care to go to work.
*The other scam is the buy/prepare separately rule. You may live with your parents but you "eat" separately, meaning you are more like a roommate than a dependant. Granted all of these things do happen IRL, but how often do you think? So you live with mom and dad, but they don't support you and your live-in boyfriend doesn't live with you.. You could potentially get money from the parents, the pseudo-spouse, and the cash-paying job and still claim to make no money at all.
*And wouldn't you know it, you poor thing, your parents are big enough jerks that not only will they not buy food for their child and grandchildren, but they make you pay $700/month rent even though you don't have a job! And worst of all, since the Social Services departments (the actual department name varies by state, in Florida it is the Department of Children and Families, in Iowa it's Social Services) doesn't report these claims to the IRS, your folks don't have to claim it on their taxes. So now we have you living with your parents with your kids and boyfriend for free and they give you some money to work with because you told them that you can't afford child care, your boyfriend has a full-time job makeing decent money, you're working a waitressing job too. This is what it looks like to the caseworker. Monthly Income: $600 (we'll assume a waitressing job that makes about $100/day in tips pluas $2.10/ hour, many can do better than this. Then assume claiming only 10% of tips) Rent: $700. When in reality it's more like this. Family income (Boyfriend, money from folks, tips, all that): $3577.86(BF makes $20k/yr, conned parents into giving you $400/ month so you can put kids in daycare) Rent: 0.. You're guaranteed Food Stamps, Cash Assistance, and Medicaid.
There are more ways than this, but that's a good rundown. I'll try to get a little more for you guys.
Income:
*If you can find a way to work on the side for cash and still make decent money then all the money you make cash doesn't count because the rep will not know about it. Most people will be thinking that not a lot of people work for cash anymore, but there are a lot of migrant workers that do agricultural work for cash. Also, any tipped worker like a waitress, cab driver, bar tender, etc. would fall under this category. Most of these people routinely make a habit of only claiming about 10% of their tips. That puts about all of them in the <$10k/yr category which is pretty much going to get benefits every time.
*The other option is people who are actually dependants of someone else, but don't claim to be. You may be claiming that the father of your children is estranged and you don't talk to him any more, but in reality he might as well be married to you. He could be living with you and providing support for you and the kids, and all you have to do is have his mail sent to his mother's house or a po box and the case worker will buy the story. You can get away with making no money at all this way because you can't afford child care to go to work.
*The other scam is the buy/prepare separately rule. You may live with your parents but you "eat" separately, meaning you are more like a roommate than a dependant. Granted all of these things do happen IRL, but how often do you think? So you live with mom and dad, but they don't support you and your live-in boyfriend doesn't live with you.. You could potentially get money from the parents, the pseudo-spouse, and the cash-paying job and still claim to make no money at all.
*And wouldn't you know it, you poor thing, your parents are big enough jerks that not only will they not buy food for their child and grandchildren, but they make you pay $700/month rent even though you don't have a job!
And worst of all, since the Social Services departments (the actual department name varies by state, in Florida it is the Department of Children and Families, in Iowa it's Social Services) doesn't report these claims to the IRS, your folks don't have to claim it on their taxes. So now we have you living with your parents with your kids and boyfriend for free and they give you some money to work with because you told them that you can't afford child care, your boyfriend has a full-time job makeing decent money, you're working a waitressing job too. This is what it looks like to the caseworker. Monthly Income: $600 (we'll assume a waitressing job that makes about $100/day in tips pluas $2.10/ hour, many can do better than this. Then assume claiming only 10% of tips) Rent: $700. When in reality it's more like this. Family income (Boyfriend, money from folks, tips, all that): $3577.86(BF makes $20k/yr, conned parents into giving you $400/ month so you can put kids in daycare) Rent: 0.. You're guaranteed Food Stamps, Cash Assistance, and Medicaid. There are more ways than this, but that's a good rundown. I'll try to get a little more for you guys.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
-
fable
- Posts: 30676
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
- Contact:
[QUOTE=jopperm2]I did have a conversation with a friend of mine who was a social worker in Chicago. He quit because he couldn't take it any more.[/quote]
So you spoke with a single social worker, who quit their job, for whatever reasons. Okay. I've got that. It doesn't give them any credence, though.
*If you can find a way to work on the side for cash and still make decent money then all the money you make cash doesn't count because the rep will not know about it. Most people will be thinking that not a lot of people work for cash anymore, but there are a lot of migrant workers that do agricultural work for cash. Also, any tipped worker like a waitress, cab driver, bar tender, etc. would fall under this category. Most of these people routinely make a habit of only claiming about 10% of their tips. That puts about all of them in the <$10k/yr category which is pretty much going to get benefits every time.
Are you aware how little most welfare pays out in the US? That the amount is deliberately so low that it's not intended to let you live, but only slow the rate of decay to your finances, assuming you have anything left? What about those who don't have money left? My sister-in-law works in an employment/welfare office run by the state of Missouri. That's a diehard conservative state--hell, Ashcroft's from there--but they daily see endless instances of such "slackers" as former business owners with no money or dignity left, on the dole, desperate for any means to keep a family alive and together. The office winks at any tips they make on the side in a cheap job, and for good reason. It's the only remedy many people have, under an administration that's the first since the Great Depression to show a 4-year loss of jobs (1 million in all), to keep going. Some scam.
*The other option is people who are actually dependants of someone else, but don't claim to be. You may be claiming that the father of your children is estranged and you don't talk to him any more, but in reality he might as well be married to you. He could be living with you and providing support for you and the kids, and all you have to do is have his mail sent to his mother's house or a po box and the case worker will buy the story. You can get away with making no money at all this way because you can't afford child care to go to work.
Given that the budgets for social welfare offices are less than 10% what they were under some earlier administrations, is it any wonder they can't get out as they're supposed to, and confirm such facts? Is this "a handout," or the gutting of an agency? Research! And that applies to everything else you've posted from a single disgruntled employee, as well. Did you ask them what sort of budget their department had, and how much they were supposed to achieve with it? How far they fell short? How it compared to 10 years ago? 25?
There are more ways than this, but that's a good rundown. I'll try to get a little more for you guys.
Don't. Get the "lowdown" on the federal and state welfare agencies: their budgets, how many people they have working now, how many they had 25 years ago, and how they're attempting to do as much with so little that they can't effectively operate. That's the true scam. A nation with a welfare net that has so many holes in it, there's no real net. For the rest, find any studies by this intensely neo-con Congress declaring massive welfare fraud. If you can't--and you won't be able to, I can tell you, now--then it doesn't exist. Because with their resources and their intent to wind back the clock to the 1920s, they'd dig up everything they could find and publish it as loudly as they could. They haven't. The system isn't inundated with massive fraud, that much is perfectly clear; that it occurs at all, is due to cuts that have removed most of the people from the agencies, without reducing their agendas or workload.
So you spoke with a single social worker, who quit their job, for whatever reasons. Okay. I've got that. It doesn't give them any credence, though.
*If you can find a way to work on the side for cash and still make decent money then all the money you make cash doesn't count because the rep will not know about it. Most people will be thinking that not a lot of people work for cash anymore, but there are a lot of migrant workers that do agricultural work for cash. Also, any tipped worker like a waitress, cab driver, bar tender, etc. would fall under this category. Most of these people routinely make a habit of only claiming about 10% of their tips. That puts about all of them in the <$10k/yr category which is pretty much going to get benefits every time.
Are you aware how little most welfare pays out in the US? That the amount is deliberately so low that it's not intended to let you live, but only slow the rate of decay to your finances, assuming you have anything left? What about those who don't have money left? My sister-in-law works in an employment/welfare office run by the state of Missouri. That's a diehard conservative state--hell, Ashcroft's from there--but they daily see endless instances of such "slackers" as former business owners with no money or dignity left, on the dole, desperate for any means to keep a family alive and together. The office winks at any tips they make on the side in a cheap job, and for good reason. It's the only remedy many people have, under an administration that's the first since the Great Depression to show a 4-year loss of jobs (1 million in all), to keep going. Some scam.
*The other option is people who are actually dependants of someone else, but don't claim to be. You may be claiming that the father of your children is estranged and you don't talk to him any more, but in reality he might as well be married to you. He could be living with you and providing support for you and the kids, and all you have to do is have his mail sent to his mother's house or a po box and the case worker will buy the story. You can get away with making no money at all this way because you can't afford child care to go to work.
Given that the budgets for social welfare offices are less than 10% what they were under some earlier administrations, is it any wonder they can't get out as they're supposed to, and confirm such facts? Is this "a handout," or the gutting of an agency? Research! And that applies to everything else you've posted from a single disgruntled employee, as well. Did you ask them what sort of budget their department had, and how much they were supposed to achieve with it? How far they fell short? How it compared to 10 years ago? 25?
There are more ways than this, but that's a good rundown. I'll try to get a little more for you guys.
Don't. Get the "lowdown" on the federal and state welfare agencies: their budgets, how many people they have working now, how many they had 25 years ago, and how they're attempting to do as much with so little that they can't effectively operate. That's the true scam. A nation with a welfare net that has so many holes in it, there's no real net. For the rest, find any studies by this intensely neo-con Congress declaring massive welfare fraud. If you can't--and you won't be able to, I can tell you, now--then it doesn't exist. Because with their resources and their intent to wind back the clock to the 1920s, they'd dig up everything they could find and publish it as loudly as they could. They haven't. The system isn't inundated with massive fraud, that much is perfectly clear; that it occurs at all, is due to cuts that have removed most of the people from the agencies, without reducing their agendas or workload.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
-
jopperm2
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: I'm from Iowa, I just work in space.. Okay the Spa
- Contact:
Well I agree that the source is not a particularly reliable one, but I'm getting tired of the topic and didn't want to do much legwork. These are all techniques I have seen used by people though. And also about the budget thing, I did ask him about that and he told me that he was just told to believe whatever he was told and to approve or deny based on that(you have to have documentation on some things, but it's not too hard to get). He then sent his decision to another person who applies the budget and determines what the claimants get. Usually food stamps for a few hundred bucks, Medicaid for the kids, and some sort of check(not very much though I'm sure, I'll give you that). There are a lot of people using this as a little extra spending money and that is what makes it impossible for people who need assistance to get anything that they can possibly pay bills with. I agree that they need a lot more people working in these things so maybe someone can go out in the field and see how much of what is on the application is true. Do you have any problems with the fraud techniques I posted?
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
-
fable
- Posts: 30676
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
- Contact:
[QUOTE=jopperm2]Well I agree that the source is not a particularly reliable one, but I'm getting tired of the topic and didn't want to do much legwork.[/quote]
I'm confused. You expected me to respect your content, because of this? When you look into the actual facts, I'm open to discussion. Until then, this whole discussion merely resembles sessions in bars by people with rants repeating political slogans. I've no interest in that.
Do you have any problems with the fraud techniques I posted?
If you read my post carefully, you would have your answer to that.
I'm confused. You expected me to respect your content, because of this? When you look into the actual facts, I'm open to discussion. Until then, this whole discussion merely resembles sessions in bars by people with rants repeating political slogans. I've no interest in that.
Do you have any problems with the fraud techniques I posted?
If you read my post carefully, you would have your answer to that.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
-
jopperm2
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: I'm from Iowa, I just work in space.. Okay the Spa
- Contact:
Have you ever applied for welfare before?
Or spoken to anyone who works for a welfare agency?
I honestly can't believe that you don't think this abuse occurs.
I agree with you the system has been gutted and that there aren't resourses to do it correctly with the current funding, but I could list the names of at least 20 people who have committed these very frauds.
Or spoken to anyone who works for a welfare agency?
I honestly can't believe that you don't think this abuse occurs.
I agree with you the system has been gutted and that there aren't resourses to do it correctly with the current funding, but I could list the names of at least 20 people who have committed these very frauds.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
-
fable
- Posts: 30676
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
- Contact:
[QUOTE=jopperm2]Have you ever applied for welfare before?
Or spoken to anyone who works for a welfare agency?[/quote]
What part of "My sister-in-law works in an employment/welfare office run by the state of Missouri" was not phrased clearly? And yes, back in the 1970s, I applied for welfare.
I honestly can't believe that you don't think this abuse occurs.
I didn't write that, nor do I think it. The only systematic abuse occurring is due to...well, read my post.
Or spoken to anyone who works for a welfare agency?[/quote]
What part of "My sister-in-law works in an employment/welfare office run by the state of Missouri" was not phrased clearly? And yes, back in the 1970s, I applied for welfare.
I honestly can't believe that you don't think this abuse occurs.
I didn't write that, nor do I think it. The only systematic abuse occurring is due to...well, read my post.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
-
jopperm2
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: I'm from Iowa, I just work in space.. Okay the Spa
- Contact:
Sorry, don't know how I missed the part about your sister..
<-- Stoopid.
I did read your post, and I got the impression that you don't think that there is a significant amount of people getting welfare that don't qualify.
And I hope that the small business owners do get their benefits, that's a hard life and I talk to many of them every day that have lost everything. I'm mostly talking about other demographics.
Where in MO is your sister btw, just curious, and what does she do there?
<-- Stoopid. I did read your post, and I got the impression that you don't think that there is a significant amount of people getting welfare that don't qualify.
And I hope that the small business owners do get their benefits, that's a hard life and I talk to many of them every day that have lost everything. I'm mostly talking about other demographics.
Where in MO is your sister btw, just curious, and what does she do there?
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
@jopperm2: I disagree that fraud is the cause of diminished funds. Budget cuts are the culprit. Those who pushed to have the budgets of Health and Human Services (HHS) agencies slashed nationwide are now reaping the benefits of their draconian efforts: people are angry, and for good reason. Why do the lines seem so long, and the wait so unbearably endless, in the field offices? Is it because *more* people are looking for benefits? No, it's because there is not enough staff to handle the workload. One caseworker is doing the job of three or four. Working in one of those offices is a daily trip into insanity and stress overload.
The very same legislators who since the 1980's hewed into the federal (and as a result, state) HHS budgets are now sending out letters to HHS agencies demanding to know why their constituents are so dissatisfied with the services they receive. When I read their letters printed on US Senate letterhead, I think of one of my favorite authors and wits of all time, Mark Twain. If I wasn't required to send these letters along to the upper echelon, I would toss them into file 13...the trash can. There's nothing on earth more pitiful nor absurd than a politician.
I know of quite a few social workers and investigators who are retiring early. Quite simply, they are overworked.
The very same legislators who since the 1980's hewed into the federal (and as a result, state) HHS budgets are now sending out letters to HHS agencies demanding to know why their constituents are so dissatisfied with the services they receive.
When I read their letters printed on US Senate letterhead, I think of one of my favorite authors and wits of all time, Mark Twain. If I wasn't required to send these letters along to the upper echelon, I would toss them into file 13...the trash can. There's nothing on earth more pitiful nor absurd than a politician.I know of quite a few social workers and investigators who are retiring early. Quite simply, they are overworked.
CYNIC, n.:
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
-
jopperm2
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: I'm from Iowa, I just work in space.. Okay the Spa
- Contact:
@Chanak, I agree that budgeting is the primary culprit here. There simply need to be more caseworkers. The country is not the same as it was when the program was started and the money needs to be reworked. I still think that abuse needs to be stopped though. The case workers should be able to use their judgement more and not worry as much about getting accused of racism, etc. Which I'm sure you can attest to. There are a great deal of people who will scream racism or some other form of inequity if they are turned down. So if the lies are all in order the case workers approve them. I wonder if we could just prosecute half of the people who are on welfare and don't qualify, how much money we could save. THough my motivations are not totally fiscal here. I think money could be saved, but as you said, not enough to do what we need to do. I think that all people that abuse government systems should be punished heavily. Also, about the long lines and whatnot. I'm not sure if it's different where you are, but my wife had to apply for medicaid about 2 years ago and it only took about 4 hours total. That's not too bad in my opinion. The investigation process is where I thik we are lacking.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
@jopperm: Offices can be innovative in certain circumstances. I know in our office, we've developed a pre-printed licensure renewal process for home care agencies and assisted living facilities. The database is set up to flag qualified licensees so the specialist can run their renewal notifications off the printer a batch at a time. This saves $$$ in administrative expenses for us, and less hassle and stress for those renewing their license. They used to have to be mailed forms, which they needed to fill out, return to us...etc. Now, they receive the notification to send their renewal fee in, and that's it. Mind you, we still have to abide by federal codes, but our process satisfies them.
Every field office has their "peak" times. The smart thing to do is avoid going to them during those times. It's not always a bad or distasteful experience, and shouldn't have to be, but unfortunately often is. I'm in a large city, so the field offices here are normally packed during the peak hours.
Every field office has their "peak" times. The smart thing to do is avoid going to them during those times. It's not always a bad or distasteful experience, and shouldn't have to be, but unfortunately often is. I'm in a large city, so the field offices here are normally packed during the peak hours.
CYNIC, n.:
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
-
jopperm2
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: I'm from Iowa, I just work in space.. Okay the Spa
- Contact:
@Chanak, You may have said this before, but what city do you work in? We were in a small city, but a very poor one. There are a lot of case workers there and they were very efficient once they see you. I think since it is such a poor area, a lot of people probably know what they need to bring to start with. That's my guess..
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
-
dragon wench
- Posts: 19609
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
- Contact:
@Scayde, ROFL!
Actually, I have seen people asking for spare change so they can get a drink. I always respect their honesty, but my usual retort is, "Hell, if I'm going to be supporting anybody's habit, it is going to be my own!"
Actually, I have seen people asking for spare change so they can get a drink. I always respect their honesty, but my usual retort is, "Hell, if I'm going to be supporting anybody's habit, it is going to be my own!"
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
[QUOTE=dragon wench]@Scayde, ROFL!
Actually, I have seen people asking for spare change so they can get a drink. I always respect their honesty, but my usual retort is, "Hell, if I'm going to be supporting anybody's habit, it is going to be my own!" [/QUOTE]
LOL..indeed, but his honesty is so refreshing, I would probably buy the guy a beer just because he was novel
Actually, I have seen people asking for spare change so they can get a drink. I always respect their honesty, but my usual retort is, "Hell, if I'm going to be supporting anybody's habit, it is going to be my own!"
[/QUOTE]LOL..indeed, but his honesty is so refreshing, I would probably buy the guy a beer just because he was novel
Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)
The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
@jopperm: Austin, Texas. I work in the state office. The regional offices - or "field offices" - report to us.
@Scayde and DW: LOL, that's a funny one. Since you come to Austin often, Scayde, you have seen the panhandlers here. If I had a camera when I passed them by, you could see one guy that was dressed in women's clothing, with a sign that read: "I need money for my sex change operation." Another guy was pretty simple - his just read: "I want money." Some of them are elaborate and set up marquees plastered with all kinds of bizarre stuff. That's all about to change though: Austin is going to pass ordinances making panhandling illegal. While some of it can be amusing, I think that's a good idea. Think about it, though: some of these people would panhandle just to get some hots and a cot in jail.....
@Scayde and DW: LOL, that's a funny one.
Since you come to Austin often, Scayde, you have seen the panhandlers here. If I had a camera when I passed them by, you could see one guy that was dressed in women's clothing, with a sign that read: "I need money for my sex change operation." Another guy was pretty simple - his just read: "I want money." Some of them are elaborate and set up marquees plastered with all kinds of bizarre stuff. That's all about to change though: Austin is going to pass ordinances making panhandling illegal. While some of it can be amusing, I think that's a good idea. Think about it, though: some of these people would panhandle just to get some hots and a cot in jail..... CYNIC, n.:
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
-
jopperm2
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: I'm from Iowa, I just work in space.. Okay the Spa
- Contact:
In New Orleans there are a lot of fake panhandlers. People who are not homeless but dress like it and panhandle.. I here they can fetch $20k/year pretty easily there. Wouldn't work most places. In Orlando, you need a liscense to panhandle and you have to stay in your designated box that is painted on the ground. In Iowa, vagrancy itself is illegal. If you are caught with no proof of residence and no money, you can be jailed.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
-
Macleod1701
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:05 am
- Location: England, High Wycombe
- Contact:
You think it's bad in the US, try coming to Blighty mate. I work for a local council and the amount of people who are on every benefit we can provide is staggering. Whats even more disgusting is the fact that the majority of them have been on them their entire lives and just can't be arsed to work because whats the need when old muggins here and all my other mates and relations who actually WORK are paying sky high taxes to pay for these lay abouts! It should be more a case of 'If you prove that youre trying to better yourself and find work we will help you all we can, if your going to do naff all but sponge of the state then get lost'
Donkeys are aliens!
Argos contains the 'Laminated book of dreams', to catch the 'Tears of joy'.
So many beautiful things...I cannot posses them all....wait stock check beep boop beep beep
Argos contains the 'Laminated book of dreams', to catch the 'Tears of joy'.
So many beautiful things...I cannot posses them all....wait stock check beep boop beep beep