Tech armour question

[satanicusmaximu]

The aptitude adjustment to chance of critical failure on tech armours refers to what exactly? Can they cause you to critically fail with your weapon when you hit or when you attack or is thier some other kind of failure or what??

[GawainBS]

It's a percentage that expresses how often you will fail when wearing that particular tech item. Tech-helmets have it as well, as do weapons, boots, etc.
This certainly applies to attacks, and I'm inclined to think that it applies to whatever other skill rolls you're required to make as well. It would only be logical, given the game's mechanics/background.

[galraen]

The aptitude adjustment to chance of critical failure on tech armours refers to what exactly? Can they cause you to critically fail with your weapon when you hit or when you attack or is thier some other kind of failure or what??

When you hit IIRC, not 100% sure aabout armour, but definitly about weapons (the cursed sword you get as a reward for giving the mines back to what's her name, for example). Being armour, it should affect your defence, but I don't think that's actually how it works, I think in the event of a critical failure, it affects your net attack.

It's been some time since I played the game mind you, (I can't find the disks ) so I could be wildly wrong.

[satanicusmaximu]

After testing the effects of a characters aptitude on tech armours they don, I found it effects how much AC and R values large Machined platemail gives them to a point*. large Elite platemail is not subject to any AC or DR variance due to aptitude allthough it is Regarded as a technological item, it works the same for the magical as it does for the scientific. Electro armours AC and R values are affected by aptitude.

*Machined platemails optimal AC and R values are achieved with a tech aptitude of 30.

[GawainBS]

Actually, I don't believe that Tech items' effectiveness is affected by aptitude. I had my 100% Magic Aptitude Mage don that platemail, and it gave him the correct AC & Res, but a huge Crit Failure.

[Deadalready]

I'm inclined to think that critical failure tends to affect melee combat and certain things like lockpicking. It's already frustrating without a penalty to have weapons fall out of hands or even more stupidly scarring oneself with a penalty things could be right appalling.

Then again, I've only really noticed it in melee so it might be possible to kit up on tech gear and use only magic spells and not suffer penalties. It might however give opponents a bonus to damage or something.

[satanicusmaximu]

Actually, I don't believe that Tech items' effectiveness is affected by aptitude. I had my 100% Magic Aptitude Mage don that platemail, and it gave him the correct AC & Res, but a huge Crit Failure.

What platemail? I refer to several differant types of armour in the reply. What do you mean by a huge crit failure? On your attacks or on your lockpicking or what?

[GawainBS]

What platemail? I refer to several differant types of armour in the reply. What do you mean by a huge crit failure? On your attacks or on your lockpicking or what?

Any tech-based mail. Machinised Plate, Featherweight Chain, regular Plate. They just give the listed Resistances & AC, but also give a huge Critical Failure. It appears in the item's description, based on your Aptitude. I believe it applies to any roll you're required to make, given the game's mechanics and how the fluff is explained, for what that's worth. It certainly applies this Crit Failure on (melee) attacks made by yourself.

[satanicusmaximu]

I'm inclined to think that critical failure tends to affect melee combat and certain things like lockpicking. It's already frustrating without a penalty to have weapons fall out of hands or even more stupidly scarring oneself with a penalty things could be right appalling.

Then again, I've only really noticed it in melee so it might be possible to kit up on tech gear and use only magic spells and not suffer penalties. It might however give opponents a bonus to damage or something.

I tested some tech armours with a 100 magic aptitude character and there was no noticable increase in his critical failures when attacking. You shouldn't equip a mage with any tech armour before testing it first apparently some of thier AC's and R ratings are effected by aptitude wheras some are not.

[satanicusmaximu]

Any tech-based mail. Machinised Plate, Featherweight Chain, regular Plate. They just give the listed Resistances & AC, but also give a huge Critical Failure. It appears in the item's description, based on your Aptitude. I believe it applies to any roll you're required to make, given the game's mechanics and how the fluff is explained, for what that's worth. It certainly applies this Crit Failure on (melee) attacks made by yourself.

The only tech armour I know of wich gives you the listed AC and resistances regardless of aptitude is Elite plate, based on what the inventory screen says Machined plates and electro armours AC and R values are affected to a point.

[GawainBS]

The only tech armour I know of wich gives you the listed AC and resistances regardless of aptitude is Elite plate, based on what the inventory screen says Machined plates and electro armours AC and R values are affected to a point.

Never noticed this (They just give the listed bonuses) and it doesn't make sense anyway.

[satanicusmaximu]

Never noticed this (They just give the listed bonuses) and it doesn't make sense anyway.

I went out of my way to cheack it. What I'm saying is true, unless there's an inventory screen display error.

[GawainBS]

I think you're mixing the different sizes of platemails up. Those offer different AC & Res dependant on size.

[satanicusmaximu]

I'm inclined to think that critical failure tends to affect melee combat and certain things like lockpicking. It's already frustrating without a penalty to have weapons fall out of hands or even more stupidly scarring oneself with a penalty things could be right appalling.

Then again, I've only really noticed it in melee so it might be possible to kit up on tech gear and use only magic spells and not suffer penalties. It might however give opponents a bonus to damage or something.

Another way to overcome any chance of critical failure when using a melee tech weapon or tech armour (if it effectts that) besides not using them may be to become trained as a master in melee thereby negating any chance for critical failure with melee weapons.

[satanicusmaximu]

I think you're mixing the different sizes of platemails up. Those offer different AC & Res dependant on size.

Really? This is how I tested it. I got a character to level 30 without expending any character points and saved the game so I could reload it repeatedly and test out all the different skills and things that you can spend points on in the game, then I made some tech armour and made note of it's effects on AC and R values at various levels of aptitude, I altered the aptitude by spending points on spells, tech disciplines and/or by using the dark helm, these tests reveald some tech armours AC's and R values are effected by the apt of the wearer. I also tested the chance to cause a critical failure on armour by increasing my magic aptitude to 100 and wearing all of the most technological armour I could get my hands on, Inspite of a listed cumilative increased chance of critical failure of around 35% No increase in critical failures was noted when attacking with a non tech weapon.

[GawainBS]

That's because the Dark Helm has varying degrees of Resistance and AC based on aptitude, since it's a magic item. That probably messed things up. I can only say that my 100% tech character had the listed amount of AC & Res, while my 100% magic character got them as well, and a crit failure to boot. It was a machinized platemail. Same happened with the War Gauntlets.
Also, keep in mind that at a certain point of Resistance, extra Resistance turns into a % of the listed Resistance, i.e. you have to put in exponentionally more resistance to get the listed result. We more or less concluded that in a previous thread.

[satanicusmaximu]

That's because the Dark Helm has varying degrees of Resistance and AC based on aptitude, since it's a magic item. That probably messed things up. I can only say that my 100% tech character had the listed amount of AC & Res, while my 100% magic character got them as well, and a crit failure to boot. It was a machinized platemail. Same happened with the War Gauntlets.
Also, keep in mind that at a certain point of Resistance, extra Resistance turns into a % of the listed Resistance, i.e. you have to put in exponentionally more resistance to get the listed result. We more or less concluded that in a previous thread.

The dark helms AC and R values do not vary based on aptitude, even if it did it was not the dark helm because upon removing the tech armours from the 100 magic apt character thier AC and R values dropped by an amount less than what is stated in thier descriptions. I've seen much to suggest that the conclusions you came to with regards to resistances being subject to a diminishing returns effect are incorrect. If you have a enough tech apt to get a tech armours optimal AC and R's
(thier stated amount) they will always give you the stated amount regardless of how much resistance you have up to the resistance cap of 95 percent.

[satanicusmaximu]

Never noticed this (They just give the listed bonuses) and it doesn't make sense anyway.

It makes sense that both Machined plate and Electro armour are affected by aptitude whereas elite plate is not, Elite plate would be no different in the weilding to any other type of non tech armour.

[GawainBS]

It makes sense that both Machined plate and Electro armour are affected by aptitude whereas elite plate is not, Elite plate would be no different in the weilding to any other type of non tech armour.

Except they are all just as much Tech Items. Purely on a fluff basis, it wouldn't make sense for a techitem to give better bonuses to a tech character, as opposed to a neutral character. Steel is steel, it's just there to stop a blow.
The Dark Helmet DOES give varying amounts of AC & Res. Whenever I find it, it has (% available) in its description, based on my magical aptitude.

[satanicusmaximu]

Except they are all just as much Tech Items. Purely on a fluff basis, it wouldn't make sense for a techitem to give better bonuses to a tech character, as opposed to a neutral character. Steel is steel, it's just there to stop a blow.
The Dark Helmet DOES give varying amounts of AC & Res. Whenever I find it, it has (% available) in its description, based on my magical aptitude.

Machined plate and Electro armour are more tehcnical than Elite plate, they are not merely steel, the game reflects this through penalising those with insufficient aptitude with less effective armour.
It make perfect sense for a technically apt character to be better with some tech armours over others, in the case of Machined plate and Electro armour, who is more likely to understand the intricate workings of Machined plate and Electro armour than someone learned in the related fields of science? Perhaps Electro armour needs to be properly calibrated before donning it and one needs to be a veritable electrician to do so, perhaps one with a fundamental understanding of how a machine moves is better able to move his Machined plate into a defensive stance than a mere layman. The idea of a world with magic is incomprehensable enough without throwing a healthy dose of technology in there but hey... anythings possible.
If Dark helms AC and DR did vary the variables would be stated in parenthesis as with other magical items, the things that are effected by aptitude on the Dark helm are how much magical aptitude it adds and how much alignment it reduces.