In many ways I agree with Vehemence. Language is a form of communication, and the main point if to get your views across to another person. If it worked, then you have accomplished your goal. Languages sould have guidelines to keep a stable medium of communication, but they are guidelines, not meant as rules set in stone.
@fable- I started using the dangling "with" after learning a foriegn language (Swedish). I assumed I had picked it up from there and I only really noticed others saying it after moving back to the States.
On a funny side note, I really enjoy mixed metaphors. If you say something like, "You hit the nail right between the eyes", you'd be amazed how many people don't even catch the joke.
Matti Il-Amin, Paladin, comedian, and expert adventurer. Proudly bearing the colors of the [url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/blade/index.htm"]Blades of the Banshee[/url]
Matti Il-Amin, Paladin, comedian, and expert adventurer. Proudly bearing the colors of the [url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/blade/index.htm"]Blades of the Banshee[/url]
Cartoon Law III
Any body passing through solid matter will leave a perforation conforming to its perimeter. Also called the silhouette of passage, this phenomenon is the speciality of victims of directed-pressure explosions and of reckless cowards who are so eager to escape that they exit directly through the wall of a house, leaving a cookie-cutout-perfect hole. The threat of skunks or matrimony often catalyzes this reaction.
My wife and I were just discussing hitting a restaurant tonight. I suggested doing this in about an hour, since it'll be late for dinner and probably a lot emptier. She agreed, and said "Yes, it's out of their normal sync of people eating."
I just stared, horrified. Some things were simply not meant to be done to the English language.
[ 05-25-2001: Message edited by: fable ]
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
I guess this isn't about anyone I know personally, but IMHO the English language suffers some of its worst indignities at the hands of post structuralist writers and/or academics (they are particularly adept at employing the most incomprehensible jargon imagineable). Most, I think, would do well to read George Orwell's essay on the subject.
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
@Dragon wench, I can't argue with that. I've read some books in jargoneering that repeated only disguised platitudes, at great length. And the horrible thing was that they were written by highly respected people in their respective fields. I suspect at times that jargon fulfills the same function today that involuted social codes did when first employed by late medieval aristocracy: it creates an impenetrable field designed to keep out the unwanted and unclean, while reassuring the inmates all is well.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
@Fable: Yes, I've long thought that the use of jargon is just a form of elitism, a select group writing for a select group. My feeling is that writing is about communication, and if the majority can't understand a word of what you're trying to say, than you've failed in your task. I actually flirt a little with post structuralist notions, but I never use the terminology, it is entirely feasable to discuss most of those ideas without resorting to that jingoistic crap.
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
Originally posted by dragon wench:
<STRONG>@Fable: Yes, I've long thought that the use of jargon is just a form of elitism, a select group writing for a select group. My feeling is that writing is about communication, and if the majority can't understand a word of what you're trying to say, than you've failed in your task. I actually flirt a little with post structuralist notions, but I never use the terminology, it is entirely feasable to discuss most of those ideas without resorting to that jingoistic crap.</STRONG>
I agree. Or we might as well go back to sign langauge.
But Craig, is there anything actually wrong with Happy Christmas and Merry New Year, even if they're not standard?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
This thread reminds me of a joke my English Professor told his pupils. The topic was something like "the blending of elitist diction with the vernacular."
A rich widow is asked by a constable why she accosted a drunk who pinched her bottom.
Her reply? (I still remember the laughter in the classroom)
In a seminar I took last year, two of the students seemed to have some chemistry between them (which we were all aware of). The guy was giving a presentaion one day, and afterwards we all posed questions. The woman asked him a question and he was a bit long-winded in answering so she became impatient. He turned to her and said, "it's okay I'm warming up to you." Needless to say, everyone in the seminar (prof included) stared very hard at their desks.
[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: dragon wench ]
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>But Craig, is there anything actually wrong with Happy Christmas and Merry New Year, even if they're not standard? </STRONG>
YES IT DRIVES ME NUTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Craig, calm down. There are flames spouting out of your pointy ears.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Originally posted by Anatres:
[QB
My two biggest bugaboos are actually written errors, there for their and your for you're. Actually three, their for they're.
[ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Anatres ][/QB]
bet you love my posts then!
i actually butcher the english language daily. if you listen to any race they all screw it up one way or another:black(ebonics), southerners(rednecks, refer to Jeff Foxworthy), asian(You have fried rice), northerners( i had a friend that lived in Maine, i swear he couldn't pronounce a "r" for anything). you get the point. this is not to offend anyone cause i fit the redneck language perfectly.
Bottomline: only english teachers (and their children) speak perfect english.
