Uncanny Dodge vs. Scoundrle Luck
Uncanny Dodge vs. Scoundrle Luck
The strategy guide for "Defensive Jedi" suggest the player choose Scout for Uncanny dodge because it adds a bonus to defense. From the in game tooltips, it seems that bonus is only when the player is caught unaware (D&D calles it "flat footed"). If I'm designing my character to have the highest Defense possible, I would want probably 6 levels of Scoundrel and start with Dex 18, right?
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fable
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Please don't bump your thread. It's considered rude. If someone has the answer, they'll reply when they can.
But if you really want an answer quickly, probably the best place to go is to the LucasArts site for the game.
But if you really want an answer quickly, probably the best place to go is to the LucasArts site for the game.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Uncanny dodge gives you a dex bonus when attacked by camouflaged enemies, which I think is just about useless. It also raises your saving throws against all grenades. This is more likely to affect ranged characters, since enemies throw less grenades when in melee range. The scout does have better features than the scoundrel, which can be used to raise his defenses or vitality. The scout also has the best saving throws of the beginning classes.
Scoundrel's luck raises your defense. Defense helps when people attack you with blasters and melee weapons. As a jedi, you should be deflecting blaster bolts with your lightsaber except when stunned. So defense should really only matter for your melee combat. You should become a sentinel if you're making a defensive character, so you don't get stunned or feared. If you choose the scoundrel class to get scoundrel's luck, you will only get +4 defense, but you will also get the sucky vitality points of the scoundrel and miss out on a lot of features. I don't think it's worth it if what you're building is a defensive character.
If you're building a defensive character, meaning you're not focusing on offense, only defense, then you should already have high saving throws and defense from equipment, features, and force powers (like force armor) and shouldn't worry about needing scoundrel's luck or uncanny dodge.
If your building an all out defensive tank, then I might suggest the soldier. Between it's features and life bonus, the soldier seems to be built to take damage. The soldier really doesn't do anything else, like skills.
The scout and scoundrel are both given the option of skills to avoid combat all together. However, the scout is more defensive with better saving throws, features, and life. Whereas, the scoundrel is more offensive with sneak attack.
For your defensive character I would recommend the soldier/sentinel combination or the scout/sentinel. The sentinel's stun immunity is invaluable to a defensive character, and while the guardian may have more life points, the sentinel has more force points to cast heal. Those extra force points can also be used to cast stun and force push more often, which futher reduces the damage you take.
"Flat footedness" probably would be good in the D&D world, but what works in Kotor isn't always what works in D&D and vice versa. Otherwise, I might consider the Scout to be more defensive than the soldier.
Also, A HUGE WARNING!!!!!! Don't start with 18 dex. This will signifigantly screw you over. Notice on armor how it says things like "+8 from dex"? This means that if you wear this armor, you are only allowed to have 8 modifiers from dexterity. A dex modifier raises your defense by one. With 26 dexterity, you will have 8 dex modifiers and it will raise your defense by 8 points. Even if you have 30 dex, this armor won't let your dexterity raise your defense past that 8 points. So only raise your dex to 26 and no further. You can easily get 5 dex from casting Master Valor with one of your teammates. And you can get another 5 dex just from leveling. There are also plenty of items that give you a lot of dex. I did the math once, you can get a total of 42 dex on the Xbox version. So look into those dex raising items, along with items that raise your saving throws. Focus on raising your constitution after you have 26 dex, as this will help your defensive tank character.
Scoundrel's luck raises your defense. Defense helps when people attack you with blasters and melee weapons. As a jedi, you should be deflecting blaster bolts with your lightsaber except when stunned. So defense should really only matter for your melee combat. You should become a sentinel if you're making a defensive character, so you don't get stunned or feared. If you choose the scoundrel class to get scoundrel's luck, you will only get +4 defense, but you will also get the sucky vitality points of the scoundrel and miss out on a lot of features. I don't think it's worth it if what you're building is a defensive character.
If you're building a defensive character, meaning you're not focusing on offense, only defense, then you should already have high saving throws and defense from equipment, features, and force powers (like force armor) and shouldn't worry about needing scoundrel's luck or uncanny dodge.
If your building an all out defensive tank, then I might suggest the soldier. Between it's features and life bonus, the soldier seems to be built to take damage. The soldier really doesn't do anything else, like skills.
The scout and scoundrel are both given the option of skills to avoid combat all together. However, the scout is more defensive with better saving throws, features, and life. Whereas, the scoundrel is more offensive with sneak attack.
For your defensive character I would recommend the soldier/sentinel combination or the scout/sentinel. The sentinel's stun immunity is invaluable to a defensive character, and while the guardian may have more life points, the sentinel has more force points to cast heal. Those extra force points can also be used to cast stun and force push more often, which futher reduces the damage you take.
"Flat footedness" probably would be good in the D&D world, but what works in Kotor isn't always what works in D&D and vice versa. Otherwise, I might consider the Scout to be more defensive than the soldier.
Also, A HUGE WARNING!!!!!! Don't start with 18 dex. This will signifigantly screw you over. Notice on armor how it says things like "+8 from dex"? This means that if you wear this armor, you are only allowed to have 8 modifiers from dexterity. A dex modifier raises your defense by one. With 26 dexterity, you will have 8 dex modifiers and it will raise your defense by 8 points. Even if you have 30 dex, this armor won't let your dexterity raise your defense past that 8 points. So only raise your dex to 26 and no further. You can easily get 5 dex from casting Master Valor with one of your teammates. And you can get another 5 dex just from leveling. There are also plenty of items that give you a lot of dex. I did the math once, you can get a total of 42 dex on the Xbox version. So look into those dex raising items, along with items that raise your saving throws. Focus on raising your constitution after you have 26 dex, as this will help your defensive tank character.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
Thanks a lot Caden, that covers all my questions!
@fable, it wasn't really a bump since there weren't any threads above it, I was just surprised that nobody seemed to know. I meant to encourage a response, even from more timid forum denizens who didn't reply. I was trying to say I didn't care who the answer came from, as long as they have something helpful to say, i.e. check the Lucas Arts website, 18 Dex is too much, or Scouts > Scoundrels. After I "bumped" my thread I noticed that the previous two posts had been four days apart and realized I should have been more patient.
@fable, it wasn't really a bump since there weren't any threads above it, I was just surprised that nobody seemed to know. I meant to encourage a response, even from more timid forum denizens who didn't reply. I was trying to say I didn't care who the answer came from, as long as they have something helpful to say, i.e. check the Lucas Arts website, 18 Dex is too much, or Scouts > Scoundrels. After I "bumped" my thread I noticed that the previous two posts had been four days apart and realized I should have been more patient.
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fable
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@fable, it wasn't really a bump since there weren't any threads above it...
To anyone who clicks on "New Posts," it shows up as a bump, and it's considered such by the site owner. Please don't do it. If you want to argue the matter further, send me a private message, but it is policy.
After I "bumped" my thread I noticed that the previous two posts had been four days apart and realized I should have been more patient.
A couple of days would have been sufficient. As I wrote, we're not the developers' site, where there's a turnaround of personnel every few minutes. If you can wait patiently, fine, by all means stay around. If you can't wait a few hours or a few days, you'll sincerely have better luck, there.
To anyone who clicks on "New Posts," it shows up as a bump, and it's considered such by the site owner. Please don't do it. If you want to argue the matter further, send me a private message, but it is policy.
After I "bumped" my thread I noticed that the previous two posts had been four days apart and realized I should have been more patient.
A couple of days would have been sufficient. As I wrote, we're not the developers' site, where there's a turnaround of personnel every few minutes. If you can wait patiently, fine, by all means stay around. If you can't wait a few hours or a few days, you'll sincerely have better luck, there.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
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Drunkside
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I think the "flat footedness comes also if opponents attack you behind... I was in kinda trouble once when i had about 4 dark jedi on me and 2 of them behind... Ive also noted that it is easier to hit from behind. 
The +8 from robes isnt true, i had +10 and it all applied
The +8 from robes isnt true, i had +10 and it all applied
YOU DONT KNOW THE POWER OF THE DRUNKSIDE ill beat you up with my bottl ...lightsaber!!!And Drunk Side is a bar in KOTOR1... check these out! http://www.xfire.com/screenshots/drunkside/
@ Drunkside: I don't think it matters at what angle you are attacked, behind or front. I've not read any material that says it is easier to hit from behind either.
The plus 8 from robes is true, unless you've found a robe that says it gives more than plus 8. You get the original 5 from the armor and up to plus 8 for a total of 13 on the strongest jedi armor. I've tested this and am confident of it.
-Edit: Upon asking another forum to confirm it, since it's been a while since I've played, it seems jedi armor is bugged. On regular armor, when it says +8, then that is the limit you can get from the dex modifiers. However, on Jedi robes, the limit is bugged and there doesn't appear to be a limit. Even though the description says +8. Just another one of the many bugs in this game. They may have meant to not have restrictions on robes, but they left the restriction in the robe's description.
@ Thread: I also wanted to explain more about how saving throws work. Defense affects your chance to be hit by melee weapons and blasters. Saving throws affect your chance to be hit by grenades, force powers, and stun effects. Saving throws increase as you level, same as vitality and force points. Scouts gain about 50% more saving throws than soldiers and scoundrels as they level. However, once you calculate the saving throws you get from armor, feats, and force powers, the saving throws you get from leveling as a scout aren't a whole lot more. Not that you should level much as a scout, you should level more as a Jedi and be getting the saving throws per level that the Jedi Class gets. Wisdom, Dexterity, and Constitution modifiers also affect your saving throws.
The plus 8 from robes is true, unless you've found a robe that says it gives more than plus 8. You get the original 5 from the armor and up to plus 8 for a total of 13 on the strongest jedi armor. I've tested this and am confident of it.
-Edit: Upon asking another forum to confirm it, since it's been a while since I've played, it seems jedi armor is bugged. On regular armor, when it says +8, then that is the limit you can get from the dex modifiers. However, on Jedi robes, the limit is bugged and there doesn't appear to be a limit. Even though the description says +8. Just another one of the many bugs in this game. They may have meant to not have restrictions on robes, but they left the restriction in the robe's description.
@ Thread: I also wanted to explain more about how saving throws work. Defense affects your chance to be hit by melee weapons and blasters. Saving throws affect your chance to be hit by grenades, force powers, and stun effects. Saving throws increase as you level, same as vitality and force points. Scouts gain about 50% more saving throws than soldiers and scoundrels as they level. However, once you calculate the saving throws you get from armor, feats, and force powers, the saving throws you get from leveling as a scout aren't a whole lot more. Not that you should level much as a scout, you should level more as a Jedi and be getting the saving throws per level that the Jedi Class gets. Wisdom, Dexterity, and Constitution modifiers also affect your saving throws.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
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Drunkside
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Thats what i meant, i had +10 and it all applied. I think that the game engine (or something else, not too familiar with these things) wants a + something even if it isnt true.Caden wrote:@
-Edit: Upon asking another forum to confirm it, since it's been a while since I've played, it seems jedi armor is bugged. On regular armor, when it says +8, then that is the limit you can get from the dex modifiers. However, on Jedi robes, the limit is bugged and there doesn't appear to be a limit. Even though the description says +8. Just another one of the many bugs in this game. They may have meant to not have restrictions on robes, but they left the restriction in the robe's description.
I havent read anything myself, it just seems so, since (the same +10 dex char) had too high def to be hit by dark jedi, and snk atkc applies only from back of the char(or stunned ones). I could be wrong, but i dont think so.Caden wrote:@ Drunkside: I don't think it matters at what angle you are attacked, behind or front. I've not read any material that says it is easier to hit from behind either.
YOU DONT KNOW THE POWER OF THE DRUNKSIDE ill beat you up with my bottl ...lightsaber!!!And Drunk Side is a bar in KOTOR1... check these out! http://www.xfire.com/screenshots/drunkside/
SW: KOTOR uses the Dungeons and Dragons boardgame rules when it comes to fighting. In the boardgame you use dice to determine if you are hit by an attack or not. If someone has 26 defense, then you have to roll a 27 or higher with the dice in order to hit them.
Likewise, KOTOR randomizes numbers to determine if you are hit by an attack. A saving throw is a figure of speech. It refers to D&D when you would throw the dice in order to save yourself from an attack. In KOTOR you don't actually throw dice, but the game does randomize a number in order to see if you are saved from an attack. Your saving throws are your Fortitude, Will, and Reflex stats.
Lets do an example of an attack in KOTOR.
The description of Force Storm says: "A successful Will save by the target at a DC of 5 + the attacking character's level + the attacking character's wisdom and charisma modifers reduces damage by half."
Okay, this means you use your Will saving throw in order to resist Force Storm. DC stands for Difficulty Class. Difficulty Class is a number. It's a number that the defending character must roll higher than in order to defend against Force Storm. This description says that the DC is 5 + the attacking characters level + the attacking character's wisdom and charisma modifiers. As you may know, every 2 points past 10 in wisdom and charisma adds a modifier to your skills. Lets say you have 16 in wisdom and charisma, that gives you 3 modifiers for each attribute for a total of 6 modifiers. Lets also say you are level 20. Then the DC would read this way, 5 + 20 + 3 + 3 = 31. DC = 31. The target of Force Lightning will roll a dice (figuratively speaking, the game will actually random a number) between 1-20 and add his Will to it. If he has 17 Will and rolls a number 13, he will only have a total of 30. This is not high enough to beat the DC of 31. If he has a will of 17 and rolls a number 15, he will have a total of 32. This is higher than the DC and he will resist Force Storm and take half damage.
As for which class is the best, well it is all a matter of opinion. Each build is fun, though. A scoundrel/guardian who focuses on increasing his strength will do insane damage. A soldier/sentinel or scout/sentinel who focuses on increasing his dexterity and saving throws will be nearly impossible to kill and can walk through the game like a tank.
Likewise, KOTOR randomizes numbers to determine if you are hit by an attack. A saving throw is a figure of speech. It refers to D&D when you would throw the dice in order to save yourself from an attack. In KOTOR you don't actually throw dice, but the game does randomize a number in order to see if you are saved from an attack. Your saving throws are your Fortitude, Will, and Reflex stats.
Lets do an example of an attack in KOTOR.
The description of Force Storm says: "A successful Will save by the target at a DC of 5 + the attacking character's level + the attacking character's wisdom and charisma modifers reduces damage by half."
Okay, this means you use your Will saving throw in order to resist Force Storm. DC stands for Difficulty Class. Difficulty Class is a number. It's a number that the defending character must roll higher than in order to defend against Force Storm. This description says that the DC is 5 + the attacking characters level + the attacking character's wisdom and charisma modifiers. As you may know, every 2 points past 10 in wisdom and charisma adds a modifier to your skills. Lets say you have 16 in wisdom and charisma, that gives you 3 modifiers for each attribute for a total of 6 modifiers. Lets also say you are level 20. Then the DC would read this way, 5 + 20 + 3 + 3 = 31. DC = 31. The target of Force Lightning will roll a dice (figuratively speaking, the game will actually random a number) between 1-20 and add his Will to it. If he has 17 Will and rolls a number 13, he will only have a total of 30. This is not high enough to beat the DC of 31. If he has a will of 17 and rolls a number 15, he will have a total of 32. This is higher than the DC and he will resist Force Storm and take half damage.
As for which class is the best, well it is all a matter of opinion. Each build is fun, though. A scoundrel/guardian who focuses on increasing his strength will do insane damage. A soldier/sentinel or scout/sentinel who focuses on increasing his dexterity and saving throws will be nearly impossible to kill and can walk through the game like a tank.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.