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Vampires vs. Zombies

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Lady Dragonfly
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Vampires vs. Zombies

Post by Lady Dragonfly »

OK, people do a lot of weird stuff for recreation. This small article describes such a pleasant pastime as "vampirism":

We all hate cannibals, but for some inexplicable reason, everybody loves a vampire.
OK, maybe it's explicable. Vampires have a lot going for them. The eternal life thing is a big plus. And the wardrobe kicks ass. Super-powers, sleeping in, pointy teeth, sex appeal... Vampirism is a sexy thing, and the dismemberment of victims is strictly optional. Who wouldn't love it?

Now granted, it's not all fun and games. You lose out on sunlight and silver jewelry. People have a tendency to try to impale you with wooden stakes, cut off your head and burn you to bits. And the currently documented number of vampires proven to have eternal life is zero, so you could be drinking all that blood for nothing.

The practice of drinking blood goes back to the first time someone bled around someone else, with notable archaeological records supporting the notion found in Mexico, China and the Middle East, as well as more recent and documented practices in Africa and the South Pacific.

Drinking blood almost always had a ritual or magical component attached to it (as opposed to cannibalism, which was often simply a dietary strategy in prehistoric times). There's just something about blood which speaks to the innermost human condition. Long before the days of DNA typing, blood was understood to be something very integral to identity.

But the blood-rites of ancient religions aren't vampirism. The historical record suggests that the concept of the vampire as recreational blood-drinker/supernatural being dates back to around the time of Jesus Christ, who fueled the growth of such stories in very specific ways that people don't like to talk about.

After all, two particularly notable aspects of the Jesus story are present in the vampire legend — the concept of rising from one's grave, and the concept of drinking human blood in order to have eternal life:

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him."

Nothing ambiguous about that. The vampire as supernatural creature lingered for some time at the fringes of civilized consciousness, but it didn't emerge as a full-fledged category of its own until much later.
There were two threads of thought that combined into the modern conception of the vampire around the time of the Middle Ages. The first was the idea of the magical/healing properties of blood. Blood was thought to contain the magical essence of life, and it was widely used in various medical and occult practices.

The second thread was the emergence of legends and rumors about the undead, soulless and unbaptized abominations who clawed their way from the grave to wreak havoc on the living.

Around the same time, some of the first really gory documented tales of psychotic killers began to arise, such as the case of Sawney Bean, the leader of an incestuous cannibal tribe in Scotland, and the extremely lurid tale of Gilles de Rais, one of the first serial killers to immortalized in excruciating detail, who was convicted of Witchcraft, summoning Satan and other crimes.
.....
Anne Rice's detailed historical novels also prompted a lot of revisionist vampire lore, as hundreds of thousands of impressionable teens went to college and learned the deadly art of misusing research. Pretty soon you couldn't swing an undead cat without hitting some historical "evidence" of vampires in ancient times.

With the patent difficulties involved in finding actual vampires from whom to receive the Dark Gifts, many would-be children of the night were left foundering and directionless — until the Internet came along and saved them!

One of the Internet's great strengths is the ability to unite small cliques of people who enjoy deviant behavior, which previously was very difficult owing to social stigma, laws concerning certain interstate activities and burning at the stake. Prior to the Web's emergence in the 1990s, there was a small underground club scene in large cities like New York and San Francisco in which people indulged in fetish-oriented blood-drinking.

With the advent of the Web, just about anyone who had ever thought about drinking blood could easily find and talk to anyone else who had ever thought about drinking blood. There are dozens of Web sites with tips on how to hygenically drink the blood of others, ettiquette in soliciting blood, and safety tips to help avoid piercing major arteries and otherwise killing the person you're playing with.

The Web has also allowed the creation of Web sites made by people claiming to be supernatural-type vampires, but these sites rarely display the mastery of English grammar which one would expect from a preternaturally intelligent person who has lived for centuries, raising the uneasy suspicion in the minds of readers that maybe — just maybe — the site was created by a disturbed 14-year-old.

A distinct subclass of vampire has also become fairly ubiquitous in modern occult circles and pop psychology. Known as "psychic vampires," the term refers to persons who suck spiritual, magical, psychic or psychological energy from their victims without drawing blood. While the odds are very good that you've personally met a few of those, as of this writing, no one has captured and publicly displayed a real, live vampire of the "hundreds-of-years-old, garlic-hating, cross-spitting, bat-summoning" variety.

Should that change, we'll certainly let you know.


Vampires

I've never heard of "psychic vampires" before. Have you?
Well, it looks like there is a thriving vampiric community out there.
What do you think about the whole deal? Is modern vampirism dangerous to society, in your opinion? Do you personally find vampires charming? Or do you prefer zombies? :)
If you are having trouble choosing, there is some useful info provided by The Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency:

Vampires versus Zombies

When vampires and zombies were pitted together in one-on-one competition, the vampire's advantage in the areas of speed/agility and brain power would usually be enough to trump the zombie's indestructibility. But the zombie tendency to cluster together in large packs often spelled trouble for vampires when the two met out in the real world.
Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe.
-- Euripides
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Post by fable »

I've never heard of "psychic vampires" before. Have you?
Yes, I have. But I've always thought it's simply putting a fancy dress term on a average Joe concept that's been around for a long time. As I recall, it means people who seem to suck the energy out of you by their mere presence. I'm sure we've all met people like that. Implying it has a supernatural origin is, well, a bit silly, in my opinion, when we can simply observe the things they do that cause this reaction.
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Post by dragon wench »

(as opposed to cannibalism, which was often simply a dietary strategy in prehistoric times).
Actually that is not categorically true..
Or at least, if we are talking about eating the human brain it becomes more complicated. Anthropological evidence suggests that consuming the brains of enemies in both prehistoric times and well into the modern age was accompanied by ritual, the logic apparently being that the eating of your enemy's brain imparted their intelligence and strength.
This may also be true for other body parts.
The historical record suggests that the concept of the vampire as recreational blood-drinker/supernatural being dates back to around the time of Jesus Christ, who fueled the growth of such stories in very specific ways that people don't like to talk about.

After all, two particularly notable aspects of the Jesus story are present in the vampire legend — the concept of rising from one's grave, and the concept of drinking human blood in order to have eternal life:
Indeed yes, I have always found this to be an especially fascinating aspect of Christianity... and the vast majority of Christians I have broached the subject with become *extremely* uncomfortable.
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Post by Lady Dragonfly »

fable wrote:Yes, I have. But I've always thought it's simply putting a fancy dress term on a average Joe concept that's been around for a long time. As I recall, it means people who seem to suck the energy out of you by their mere presence. I'm sure we've all met people like that. Implying it has a supernatural origin is, well, a bit silly, in my opinion, when we can simply observe the things they do that cause this reaction.
I thought they were called dementors. :)

Yes, I know a few people like that. But they don't realize they produce such effects, and it is probably not a good idea to tell them.

@DW
This may also be true for other body parts.
The author said "often", not "always". Enemies' hearts and livers were consumed ritualistically in many cultures.

----
Anyway, guys, all these deviant subcultures are thriving, as far as I know. Urban anomie is rampant. From time to time we hear some terrifying stories about girls being bled almost to death and so on. There was also a publication about so-called auto-vampirism leading to anemia.
So, my questions stand: do you think vampirism poses any danger to society? Do you find recreational "vampires" cool, sexy and harmless? These questions might be as uncomfortable as the question concerning The Eucharist. :)
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Post by Cartell »

I personally find it insulting that Vampiric rituals are being compared to the christian ideals. While they may seem related when taken out of context, when looking at the purpose of the two versions of "blood-drinking" one is filled with evil, darkness undeath...ect. While the other is simply communion with Christ.

Also, find it interesting that all the christians you talked to seemed very uncomfortable, Almost everyone I've talked to about it has been perfectly comfortable.

P.S. Interested to know what how that topic came up.. :D Did you just walk up to them and say "Hey, heard you christians drink blood?"... might not be the best conversation starter:laugh:
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Post by Lady Dragonfly »

@Cartell

Are you insulted by the article or by dragon wench comment?

I tend to agree that the author's allegations might feel a bit tacky and far-fetched, to say the least. However, I think all he is saying is that there is a chance that the creators of "vampiric lore" borrowed (and twisted) their idea of attaining eternal life through the blood-drinking from the Christian tradition (much in the same way as satanists borrowed their rituals). I don't think he compares vampiric rituals to "christian ideals". After all, according to the legend, vampires are afraid of holy water and holy symbols (cross). You might disagree with this assessment, of course. The author traces the history of vampire legend (I skipped the middle part) from the early times to the modern days, with much sarcasm. I am sorry if you feel insulted by that.

What do you think of the recreational vampirism, btw? :)
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Post by Cartell »

I wasn't insulted just wondering how one could make the connection between things that come from very different ideals..
Recreational vampirism is bad..... *slinks off to hide jars of blood*
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Post by fable »

The historical record suggests that the concept of the vampire as recreational blood-drinker/supernatural being dates back to around the time of Jesus Christ, who fueled the growth of such stories in very specific ways that people don't like to talk about.
What historical record? The only "record" I'm aware of are folktales, that began being collected in the 18th century, and which furnish a little bit of the background for Bram Stoker's extremely Victorian, Christianized reframing of vampire legends towards the end of the 19th. If there are no such ancient records dating back to the early part of Christianity, we default to a much later period for our vampirical information in Amero-European culture, and the likelihood of their parodying Christianity with deliberate intent becomes as likely as the depiction of Pan as Satan, and pagans as people who worship Apollo and Satan's icy bum indiscriminately.
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Post by Lady Dragonfly »

If there are no such ancient records dating back to the early part of Christianity, we default to a much later period for our vampirical information in Amero-European culture, and the likelihood of their parodying Christianity with deliberate intent becomes as likely as the depiction of Pan as Satan, and pagans as people who worship Apollo and Satan's icy bum indiscriminately.
Fable, I am uncertain whether I properly understood what you said about the likelihood. :) :o
Are you saying that likelihood of parodying Christianity is "unintentional", or there is no any parodying whatsoever?
The only "record" I'm aware of are folktales
Well, the "real" vampires exist only in folktales founded on superstition, so you are right. The modern vampiric community is most probably comprised of individuals badly needing a comprehensive psychiatric evaluation.

I've found a very informative piece written by Massimo Introvigne on satanism, vampirism and vampirology.

CESNUR - Satanism Scares and Vampirism...

This excerpt is relevant to the controversial "parody":

Perhaps the most extraordinary work of this literature is Lucifer Dethroned published in 1993 by counter-cult activist William Schnoebelen with his wife Sharon [61]. Schnoebelen is in himself an interesting character. After a short passage in the Mormon Church -- where he made a living as a convert claiming (falsely, as it turned out) to be a former Roman Catholic priest (he had been, in fact, a priest in a small splinter group not associated with the Church of Rome) -- Schnoebelen converted to Evangelical Christianity and started a career in professional counter-cultism claming to be almost an ex-everything: ex-Catholic priest, ex-Mormon, but also ex-witch, ex-Satanist, ex-Freemason, in increasingly lurid accounts.
.......

"The vampire cult", according to Schnoebelen, is "the last and most damnable step in [the] exploration of Satanism". Catholicism, as usual in Schnoebelen’s books, is also to be blamed, for his Eucharistic ritual of drinking the blood of Jesus may be propedeutic for Satanists to drinking human blood. Schnoebelen describes a "Mass of St. Vlad", supposedly celebrated in his cult in honor of Dracula. "Special sacramental rum was used instead of the traditional red wine. It was essentially similar to the Orthodox liturgy, except for obvious differences". One of the "priestesses" was involved. "First, I would drink from her neck until she nearly fainted from loss of blood. Then, I would open up my own chest and [the priestess] would drink deeply from my blood. This supposedly transmitted the foreign, demonic ‘enzyme’ into her body which begun transforming her into a priestess of the Nosferatu. The mass would then conclude with setting the sacramental liquor (supposedly transubstantiated into the blood of Dracula himself) aflame. We would call upon Vlad to come and smile upon the creation of this new ‘child’ of his".


And here is an interesting passage which reveals that a few centuries ago media was responsible for the spread of evil no less than it is responsible today :D :

Modern scholarship has made abundantly clear that the vampire scares in Eastern Europe (circa 1672-1772) occurred independently from any Western European Satanism scare, based on local folklore and legends. The reception of the Eastern incidents in the West is, however, another matter. Historian Michel de Certeau has noted that Satanism scares are different from earlier witchcraft scares and are a typical modern phenomenon. The widespread social alarm following the French incidents at the Court of Louis XIV (and early possession cases in the 17th century) could hardly be explained without taking into account the growing importance of the press, particularly in the form of dozens of pamphlets, but including early weekly and monthly journals and gazettes.
:)
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Post by Ode to a Grasshopper »

Interesting thread @LD
Lady Dragonfly wrote:
Do you find recreational "vampires" cool, sexy and harmless?
Does 2 out of 3 count? :D
Cartell wrote:I personally find it insulting that Vampiric rituals are being compared to the christian ideals. While they may seem related when taken out of context, when looking at the purpose of the two versions of "blood-drinking" one is filled with evil, darkness undeath...ect. While the other is simply communion with Christ.
Eating human flesh and drinking human blood to attain eternal life after death and...eating human flesh and drinking human blood to sustain eternal life after death.
Slight difference, sure, but I still think there's a good case to be made that Christianity is a zombie death cult with a lemon twist.
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