Class level fallen paladins

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:04 am

"A fallen paladin who becomes a blackguard gains all of the following abilities that apply, according to the number of paladin levels the character has.
1-2 Smite good 1/day..
2-3 lay on hands-"
>>FAST FORWARD>>
"-11 or more: A fallen paladin of this stature immediately gains a blackguard level for each level of paladin he trades in."

This isn't quoted from the manual, it's from D20srd. I'm quoting it because it's inconsistent with what I know of NWN2 and I'm wondering what gives.

Blackguard is a prestige class. Prestige classes don't progress beyond ten levels and can't get epic levels. But according to this, if I become a fallen paladin with 11 paladin levels, then take the Blackguard prestige class, I get 12 blackguard levels? How does that work out?

I can't try creating a fallen paladin through the console because the commands that alter alignment never work. Sorry, I don't know what I'm doing wrong there. I'm just curious if anyone ever tried it.

Also (though unrelated):

"11 or more: A fallen paladin of this stature immediately gains a blackguard level for each level of paladin he trades in.
The character level of the character does not change. With the loss of paladin levels, the character no longer gains as many extra abilities for being a fallen paladin."

You make even a bigger sacrifice, becoming a fallen paladin after the 10th level, and you get less for it in return. Yeah, ok. Why is that?

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:27 am

The Paladin trading for Blackguard levels not applicable to NWN2, I believe. The way it works, is if a fallen Paladin takes a Blackguard level, and already has more than 10 Paladin levels, he can trade any extra Paladin levels into Blackguard levels as desired.

Eg: Paladin (12) falls and levels up as a Blackguard at character level 13 to be Paladin (12)/Blackguard (1). At choice, s/he can instead be Paladin (10)/Blackguard (3) or Paladin (11)/Blackguard (2). This does NOT allow the character to have more than 10 Blackguard levels prior to being Epic.

I'm not sure about the auto-Blackguard levels you quoted at the end, I believe it's an optional rule? But then prestige classes were always an optional rule... and it's one of the concepts I never quite liked, at least done this way.

Edit:
Oh.. and in the full PnP, certain prestige classes does have Epic progression. Once a character hits level 21, s/he may take the 11th level in some prestige class(es), if they have Epic levels.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:38 pm

Well I did quote everything from the D20srd.org, so there is no reason to assume anything will be conform with NWN2. The only thing I have to go on are some indications from interviews that none of the prestige classes will be able to obtain epic levels.

At first I thought they'd perhaps wait until a third expansion is released (with a level 40 cap), but then I read that epic prestige feats will be obtainable as long as you finished the full ten levels in your prestige class. So, giving the feats away seems to me like a definite no against the epic prestige levels. And I doubt you'll be able to trick your way around them.

I'll have to try this one out for real I suppose. I hate that I can't make alignments shifts through the console. XP gain is easily done, but for the other part I'll actually have to play the campaign for a bit. Unlucky, I wanted to wait until MotB.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:51 am

I checked it out, I wasn't using the console command correctly. The 'auto-Blackguard levels' bit does not work. Further more, no Pally feats seem to be lost for switching past level 11.

It's good that you can retain those feats while being a Black Guard, but I don't think it's worth it. Beter spend them on Weapon Master or something. Or Divine Champion, whatever floats your boat.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:07 am

There's much inherent in the ruleset that are not easily accomplished in a CRPG, and/or easily overlooked due to obscureness or that only a small handful of people actually seek them out... and in some cases result in weirdness.

In this case though, it might also be related to the fact that you retain the ability to continue Paladin and Monk class levels even after you multiclass out of them. The original rules forbid you from doing so!

By making the class levels more "isolated" and "self contained" it probably makes it easier for the engine to track stuff. Imagine the possible branches and the alternative paths needed to be programmed in if every option needs to be in place!