KUPP (v.2)

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:57 pm

Character 1:

LG Deep Gnome
Rog3/Ftr4/Pal3/Illusionist20
S: 16 D: 20 C: 14
I: 18 W: 5 Ch: 1
This is my main tank for normal mode, and can get a very high AC in HoF by improving DEX all the time. I'll be able to take a lot of skills for this character as well, making him a great scout/thief type. I won't take Illusionist levels until all of the other levels have been taken, as they are more useful later on. He can backup as a great second-rank blaster as well. This character should do well in the BattleSquares.

Character 2:

LE Deep Gnome
Rog1/Monk2/Ftr2/Rng1/Illusionist12/Cleric(Bane)12
S: 8 D: 20 C: 11
I: 14 W: 20 Ch: 1
This is my decoy. He'll be a backup spellcaster in normal mode, and does alright in combat after Weapon Finesse is taken. In HoF, he'll use that dagger that boosts INT. Cleric 1 is taken early in the build, but no more than that until the rest of the levels have been achieved (to avoid XP penalty as long as possible).

I believe I should be able to get both of these guys to AC 72 (or really close anyway) in HoF mode. Having two melee capable characters is a nice boon.

Character 3:

NG Female Drow
Cleric (Lathander) 17/Druid 13
S: 18 D: 18 C: 18
I: 5 W: 18 Ch: 5

I'll have this one take the Flame enhancing feat to enhance her powerful domain spells. The 13 Druid levels are there for Barkskin in HoF and because a Cleric doesn't get much better after level 17, so I may as well take advantage of her high WIS. In normal mode, this character could see a decent amount of melee combat, but come HoF, she'll be firing missiles when not casting spells.

Character 4:

NE Drow Male
Sorcerer 19/Bard 11
S: 8 D: 6 C: 16
I: 16 W: 14 Ch: 20

He's my main blaster and diplomat. Will do his best to stay far, far away from any combat. The Bard levels aren't taken until in HoF mode, and even then, they'll be squatted until at least level 5 (the Luck song).

All of the characters have MR, which is a great bonus. I'll consider adding two more characters sometime later in the game (another blaster of some kind at least), but I've always been fond of a smaller sized party.

Any and all advice is welcome. I plan to "set sail" with this party tomorrow night.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:09 pm

I'd reduce character4' s wisdom to 4 and use the 10 stat points for something useful like strength or dex.

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:06 pm

.

if you ask me, I would strongly recommend to rethink this party set-up!

Ok you won't have to many problems to beat HOF, but from a powergaming point of view this party is much weaker than the one before...

MR is overrated, nice to have but no need to have all PC's drow or DG at any price..., with spells and swords you can give two PCs an equal protection!

Not sure how you plan to squat levels but you will get heavy EXP-penalties and I guess have a lower level in mid HOF then with your first party!

The Sorc build is quite weak, a sorc is much stronger with the Pal levels and L19 Sorc is not enough to overcome MR, and get the high level bonus spells, same for the cleric (dispel is level based!)...-..means L25 is recommended fpr your main arcane and divine casters!

as a fast solution I would add a fith PC: bard - druid and keep your both main caster straigt -> just add pal (sorc) and monk (cleric) and skip the cleric levels for PC1!

.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:54 pm

You can find my detailed, party-specific comments on the brown board. Suffice to say that I wouldn't personally find this party all that powerful or easy to play - which to me is a measure of its power.

It seems like you are focused in on certain HoF benefits (e.g. 72 AC) to the point where you are willing to give up power in other areas. HoF can be completed with relative ease by pure-class or 2-class characters, maybe even easier than the party above. Summons are a fairly effective way to make up for the lack of an ultimate-AC tank.

Consider the following:

1) Fighter[4]/Battleguard of Tempus - pump Str
2) Druid - GSF: Transmutation & Evocation, elemental feats, weidu mod
3) Morninglord of Lathander - Spirit of Flame, GSF: Evocation, healing
4) Rogue[2]/Wizard - the do-everything character
5) Sorceror - GSF: Ev & Necr, elemental feats
6) Sorceror - GSF: Ench & Necr and whatever else you want

Every character has a major role and can take on at least one other role if necessary. They are all extremely good at both their primary and secondary roles. While this party certainly lacks an ultimate-AC tank for HoF mode, its sheer power of spells enables it to win through.

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:51 pm

.

I agree with Aerich, that each PC should be build one major class (and this should always be a caster class), if we ignore the very special druid/bard build.

But, even with this major class, each PC gains great benefits from adding some fitting minor classes!

.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:19 pm

Hmmm... seems like I'm overthinking stuff.

Back to the old drawin' board (although I'll mess around a tiny bit with this one, see how it works for me.

)

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:48 pm

I don't disagree that minor mix-ins can give good benefits, particularly from the rogue, fighter, and wizard classes. It's just important to remember that a dominant casting class is THE key to powerful characters. Mix-ins are a good way to enhance a character, but it's gone too far when it interferes with the essence of a (spellcasting) character's strength.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:19 am

Hmm, since I've already started, would I be better off with these levels for character #2:

Monk 3/Rog 3/Ftr 2/ Rng 2/Illusionist 16/Cleric 4 (4th level added last, XP penalty won't matter).

I guess I could make it Cleric 3 and boost Illusionist to 17 for a 9th level spell, but that would mean using a level-up to boost INT instead of WIS (to have access to 9th level spells after using that dagger).

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:15 pm

I think that what they are saying is you DON'T want to interfere with the MAIN CLASS. That characters main class is illusionist so you want it at least 17 to get 9th spells. You need a good reason not to do 20. And 30 wouldn't be bad just probably then a mix-in is finally good.

4th level cleric essentially does nothing for a HOF character other than make them able to use a rod of resurrection.

I don't see anything wrong with the illusionist as it was, but then I'm not an expert on HOF or anything.

Char 2 is marginal because you split your casting class in two. So no high level spells and loss of spell progression.

char 3 is ok if its a backup cleric. Main cleric needs high level for dispel magic

char 4 is ok but I'd take 1 bard sorc X first untill sorc 19 then do bard. that way you have a bard1sorc19 at CL 20 instead of a bard 11 sorc 9 (opera star).

claudius

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:23 pm

The point of having the Cleric in Character 2 is for the Banite bonus. I conceptually have the character go to level 12 as a Cleric for a few castings of Divine Shell.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:14 pm

If you must, why not go for Ro2/Ftr2/Rg1/Mk1/Cl1/Ill23? The character may end up lower on AC but should have more powerful spell options than the original character.

Alternately, you could take 3 levels off of the Illusionist class and move them to any of the other 4 if you are willing to incur an XP penalty.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:48 pm

I'm not restarting, and I'm currently at Rog1/Rng1/Ftr1/Clr1.

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:12 am

.

even if the cleric mix-in is quite useless, but if you won't restart go for:

Ro3/Ftr2/Rg2/Cl2/Ill21

forget about the monk, having a wis of 5 even with the ring you won't get an AC-bonus anyway!

.

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:19 am

.

btw. are you completly sure that you won't restart, with another party?!

...from my point of view, this one is quite bugged!

.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:59 pm

SD, you're mixing up the characters.

Char 1:
Pal3/Ftr4/Rog3/Illusionist 20 (no Monk, Wis 5)
Char 2:
Monk2/Rog1/Rng1/Ftr2/Cleric12/Illusionist12 (high Wis)

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:33 pm

...Even if I were to restart, I'm in love with Char #1. He dishes out a lot of damage even at this low level, and rarely gets hit. I plan on giving him Drakkas Chain, the best shield I can find, and the holy avenger sword. With his high INT, he handles a whole lot of skills as well (Alchemy, Search, Hide, Move Silent, Spellcraft, Concentration).

Char 2 needs more work than any, IMO. I achieve (at least) a 72 AC here, but it seems like the character doesn't provide much else, which is disappointing. If I were to restart, this character may be replaced by somebody more similar to SD's character #2, a female Drow Cleric/Decoy type (Monk3/Rog3/Ftr4/Transmuter6/Banite14). -- My character's stats would differ a bit as well, because I'd start with an 18 WIS, and a 10 or 11 STR and a 12 CON. This character puts her skills into Hide, Move Silent, Search, Concentration, and a few into Wilderness Lore. (Trans 5 & 6 would be added last)

Char 3 is a lot of fun. She's a great damage dealer at the lower levels, and should have plenty of destructive spells later on. She'll be my main marksman with Dragu's Bolter when melee gets too nasty (If I were to start over, I'd consider lowering STR a tiny bit and adding to DEX). In HoF, this character has a maximized Barkskin, needed for a decoy. Skills are Spellcraft (for the feats), and then all Concentration.

Char 4 is a lot of fun, and I'll probably keep him as is. The reason for the 14 WIS is because it's needed for some dialogues, and I want this guy to get all the talking done. If I were to restart or continue with this party, I'd probably add another Drow Sorcerer to be my main blaster and keep him pure (or I'd add an Aasimar Paladin/Sorc -- either way, the 5th member wouldn't be added until Chap 2). He's skilled in all of the "talky" skills, spellcraft, concentration, and Know: Arcana (for ID'ing). (Level-up goes Sorc 19 then Bard levels)

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:07 am

Klorox wrote:...Even if I were to restart, I'm in love with Char #1. He dishes out a lot of damage even at this low level, and rarely gets hit. I plan on giving him Drakkas Chain, the best shield I can find, and the holy avenger sword. With his high INT, he handles a whole lot of skills as well (Alchemy, Search, Hide, Move Silent, Spellcraft, Concentration).

Char 2 needs more work than any, IMO. I achieve (at least) a 72 AC here, but it seems like the character doesn't provide much else, which is disappointing. If I were to restart, this character may be replaced by somebody more similar to SD's character #2, a female Drow Cleric/Decoy type (Monk3/Rog3/Ftr4/Transmuter6/Banite14). -- My character's stats would differ a bit as well, because I'd start with an 18 WIS, and a 10 or 11 STR and a 12 CON. This character puts her skills into Hide, Move Silent, Search, Concentration, and a few into Wilderness Lore. (Trans 5 & 6 would be added last)

Char 3 is a lot of fun. She's a great damage dealer at the lower levels, and should have plenty of destructive spells later on. She'll be my main marksman with Dragu's Bolter when melee gets too nasty (If I were to start over, I'd consider lowering STR a tiny bit and adding to DEX). In HoF, this character has a maximized Barkskin, needed for a decoy. Skills are Spellcraft (for the feats), and then all Concentration.

Char 4 is a lot of fun, and I'll probably keep him as is. The reason for the 14 WIS is because it's needed for some dialogues, and I want this guy to get all the talking done. If I were to restart or continue with this party, I'd probably add another Drow Sorcerer to be my main blaster and keep him pure (or I'd add an Aasimar Paladin/Sorc -- either way, the 5th member wouldn't be added until Chap 2). He's skilled in all of the "talky" skills, spellcraft, concentration, and Know: Arcana (for ID'ing). (Level-up goes Sorc 19 then Bard levels)

PC1: the 3 Pal levels just for HA?!! Ok it#s one of the best weapons in the game (without weidu and bonus merchant) but it's a good defensive wweapon especially for an aasimar Pal 2/3 - Sorc X build (giving MR to the aasimar), but I don't see any reason for the Pal levels in this build.

PC2: This should be just a back-up cleric, so keep in mind that you get +9 WIS until the mid of HOF and you will just cast L8 spells! So you could start with WIS 9 an reallocate the points to other stats! You just need the WIS for the monk AC bonus (and you get the same effect from DEX), as you shouldn't cast offensive spells with this PC anyway!

PC3&4: certainly powerfull and fun in normal game, but very weak builds for HOF! would really suggest something like a Pal 2/3 Sorc X and a Pal 2/3 Monk 2/3 Cleric X instead and adding the support bard / druid as 5th PC!

.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:26 pm

Thanks. I've revised KUPP, and version 3 should be posted shortly.

RIP KUPP (v.2)