Finesse help

[Tricky]

I think I've been misunderstanding something about this feat. Ok, gimme a sec..

- "The character has mastered using grace and speed with lightsabers/melee weapons instead of raw power. The character can add either their Dexterity or Strength bonus to their chance to hit, whichever is higher."

Can 'add' either bonus to their chance to hit. Add, not replace.

So if..
- DEX is higher: (base STR hit chance) + (DEX Finesse bonus)
- STR is higher: (base STR hit chance) + (STR Finesse bonus)

And logically..
- Without any finesse: (base STR hit chance) + nothing..

So there really is no point in not taking the finesse, even if you don't have a 'graceful' DEX Jedi?

[DesR85]

So there really is no point in not taking the finesse, even if you don't have a 'graceful' DEX Jedi?

Even up till today, my knowledge on this mechanic is very minimal at best. I may or may not be correct here but according to a friend of mine who is familiar with the D&D rules, he mentioned that a high dexterity will mean that the chances of you getting hit will be low. So, if the player concentrates a lot on dexterity, using the 'Lightsaber finesse' skill will be beneficial, since the skill states that it will use either Dexterity or Strength (whichever is higher) as the attack damage.

Come to think of it, if the player, on the other hand, focuses on Strength, then, there would be no point in learning that skill at all.

[Tricky]

Well, that's what I always assumed. It doesn't say attack damage though, I think that is the big misconception here. The description tells me it only affects hit chance.

Dex doesn't increase hit chance in KOTOR2, but it affect Armor Class and reflex rolls. STR increases both hit chance and attack damage. If the Finesse feats only add to the hit chance, a DEX jedi should become better at hitting things. It should still pale in comparison to a STR jedi who gets the same bonus on top of his base STR hit chance AND gets a higher STR derived attack bonus.

Am I making any sense here?

[DarthMalevolent]

I think I've been misunderstanding something about this feat. Ok, gimme a sec..

- "The character has mastered using grace and speed with lightsabers/melee weapons instead of raw power. The character can add either their Dexterity or Strength bonus to their chance to hit, whichever is higher."

Can 'add' either bonus to their chance to hit. Add, not replace.

So if..
- DEX is higher: (base STR hit chance) + (DEX Finesse bonus)
- STR is higher: (base STR hit chance) + (STR Finesse bonus)

And logically..
- Without any finesse: (base STR hit chance) + nothing..

So there really is no point in not taking the finesse, even if you don't have a 'graceful' DEX Jedi?

Basically, what it means is that if you select this feat, then your chance to hit during melee combat will either come from your STR bonus, or your DEX bonus, whichever is higher - but there's a catch...

It only works while wielding a lightsaber. It doesn't work with Melee weapons unless you've selected the feat "Finesse Melee Weapons" during a levelup, and it doesn't work if you're fighting barehanded.

The advantage to it is that if you select it, you can spend your attribute points on something other that STR. If you spend them on DEX, you bump your defense AND your offense at the same time. I like to spend 'em there, and on WIS as well.

[Tricky]

Well.. you'd hit more often with DEX that way, but it doesn't do a lot of base damage if you don't have some points in STR already. I know I'm overthinking this but.. I need sleep.

[DarthMalevolent]

Well.. you'd hit more often with DEX that way, but it doesn't do a lot of base damage if you don't have some points in STR already. I know I'm overthinking this but.. I need sleep.

I think that's accurate - your damage bonuses still come from strength. But look at it this way - if you're using crystals, emitters, lenses and power cells in your lightsaber, most of your damage points don't come from strength anyway, so you're not losing much. I do it that way because it allows me to have an excellent defense and offense at the same time.

[Xandax]

Well.. you'd hit more often with DEX that way, but it doesn't do a lot of base damage if you don't have some points in STR already. I know I'm overthinking this but.. I need sleep.

However, the bonus from strength is minor unless you actually go very high strength. +2/3/4/5 rarely is worth much if your weapon already does 20-50 or something similar.

So strength based builds are often an "all (most) or nothing" type build, because they rely on the massive damage output fast so you have to keep pumping up your strength, whereas "dexterity builds" often are more balanced out over dexterity, wisdom and charisma (thus not really making them a dexterity build, but other sorts), because you rely less on the pure meele damage.
I rarely took over 12 strength with any build, unless I wanted to go full out strength, then it was much more point efficient to go some 16-18 dexterity only and have that work as "to hit" and "defence".

At least that is my experience from these D20 rule based games.

[Tricky]

For the assasin I'll need willpower to cast things that will effectively freeze my opponents when I uncloak (and I need enough of it to keep the tactic effective throughout the game). I'll need dexterity because I'll want to (effectively) sneak a lot and deal a lot of stealth-blows, and finally I'll need to hit hard enough to make it worth all the trouble. I can get all three stats up to 16. Not sure how high I'll need to take the rest after I start levelling up.

I know the guardian and consular builds are easier.. I've tried all that though.