Pale Master => No Disadvantages!?

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:42 pm

To make it short: I just read the class description of the Pale Master and I just can't think of any reason NOT to pick this prestige class, other than roleplaying reasons of course. I mean, where are the disadvantages?? You continue to gain spells as if you gained a wizard/sorc level + you get the Pale Master Special Stuff.

Do I get this right or are there any "hidden" disadvantages? Can anyone come up with a reason not to choose this prestige class?

Note: I'm only talking about Wiz/Pale or Sorc/Pale.

Thx in advance!

So long,
Sol

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:48 pm

You do not get spells increased every level in the pale master class like you do with a wizard. In fact, it says so directly in the manual that your spellcasting increases every other level with the pale master class. So, if you take 10 levels of Wizard, and 10 levels of Pale Master, you end up with the same casting abilities of a 15th level wizard at level 20.

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:51 pm

Ah, I see, thank you

Must have read that too fast.

So long,
Sol

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:18 pm

You get good resistances though. If you multiclass a melee class then it may prove of some use. Alternatively, as a sorcerer/palemaster, stick to on-touch spells so you can mix up the melee combat with some magic and be able to a beating doing so. The palemaster is also the only way for a magic class to gain Diplomacy as a class skill, not a bad choice for a Sorcerer that relies on Charisma.

Edit: I forgot the Bard class. Their magic isn't primarily offensive through

Snipercon · Post by **Snipercon** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:08 pm

My spin on the original post.

There is NO reason not to choose a Pale Master - Wizard(Necromancer) - Monk - Duelist!! (levels 6-5-5-4)

... unless you want to of course ...

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:45 am

Snipercon wrote:My spin on the original post.

There is NO reason not to choose a Pale Master - Wizard(Necromancer) - Monk - Duelist!! (levels 6-5-5-4)

... unless you want to of course ...

Yes, there are numerous reasons. For example that this template would be simply ineffective. Another reason is the XP Penalty, along with the many disadvantages such a template would have over a pure class. So next time please think before you post, and answer seriously. Thank you.

So long,
Sol

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:20 am

Solusek wrote:Yes, there are numerous reasons. For example that this template would be simply ineffective. Another reason is the XP Penalty, along with the many disadvantages such a template would have over a pure class. So next time please think before you post, and answer seriously. Thank you.

So long,
Sol

This build does not have any xp penalty, regardless of its race. The others are true however, it has low ac, cannot use shields/armor, low hp, bab, no. of attacks, so is rather useless for a melee char.

And about the pale master. Well, I cannot see why anyone should pick it. Since the level limit is 20 you lose a lot of spells being a pale master. However, if there will be expansion pack (I do hope), then it will be one kickass class. Remember nwn1? A sorc-palemaster(10) with automatic still spell I-III was great (in a full plate, with tower shield), had 80 ac, and immune to crit, it was invincible.

Noober · Post by **Noober** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:41 am

zamiel wrote:Remember nwn1? A sorc-palemaster(10) with automatic still spell I-III was great (in a full plate, with tower shield), had 80 ac, and immune to crit, it was invincible.

Knockdown (sorry, 80 AC is nothing special unless its naked).

Snipercon · Post by **Snipercon** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:49 pm

[quote="zamiel"]The others are true however, it has low ac, cannot use shields/armor, low hp, bab, no. of attacks, so is rather useless for a melee char.
QUOTE]

Low AC: +1 monk +4 pale master +dex +wis +int !!!
Cannot use shields/armor: doesn't need to use shields/armor
Low HP: Pale Master gets a nice boost
Low bab: low compared to other pale master builds?
Low no. of attacks: Flurry of blows
So is rather useless for a melee char: Perhaps not quite as useless as first suspected

My attraction to this character is primarily because he does not need a single piece of equipment to be reasonably effective. Now someone will say, but everyone has nice equipment. Okay, so add dex, wis, and int bosting items each boosting AC as well. Is this the most powerful pure hacking or casting build, No, but an interesting and eccentric option that can still be efective.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:19 pm

This inspired me to create a blend of classes I hadn't tried before. A mix of Wizard (10)/ Pale Master (5)/ Arcane Archer (2)/ Eldritch Knight (3). The exact progression will be my taking a mix of the wizard and pale master until I get the BAB requirement to get into the AA class so I get the Martial Weapon Proficiency requirement that I need to get into Eldritch Knight.

I am hoping this build will have some durability, and allow me to mow through the fodder that I might end up encountering. I won't have access to high level spells by the end, as I will take a total hit of 5 levels without casting progression. I will be able to cast up to 8th level spells. Which, will allow me the most useful buffs, some crowd control spells and resistances/armor bonuses to survive. I end up with 3 attacks per round with a bow if I need them, or I can just blast whatever comes near me instead.

Snipercon · Post by **Snipercon** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:51 pm

Magrus wrote:This inspired me to create a blend of classes I hadn't tried before. A mix of Wizard (10)/ Pale Master (5)/ Arcane Archer (2)/ Eldritch Knight (3).

Consider dropping a level of Eldritch Knight for one extra level of Pale Master. If my calculations are correct you get Undead Graft for free; no loss of BAB, caster level, HP, anything.

Otherwise I also like the build. I've always been a fan of spell caster archers. Picking off baddies from a distance with arrows and the occasional fireball seems very efficient to me. Right now I'm fiddling with a Wizard(Conjurer), Arcane Archer. I'll post it once I iron out the last few wrinkles.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:58 pm

I have absolutely no interest in the undead graft part of the build as I am going for a caster/archer. Seeing as I would end up losing 3 more caster levels for simply some immunities and grafts by taking 6-10 of Pale Master, it's not worth it for this build at all. I am better off going 10 wizard instead of 10 Pale Master for the bonus feat and casting levels.

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:35 am

Snipercon wrote: Low AC: +1 monk +4 pale master +dex +wis +int !!!
Cannot use shields/armor: doesn't need to use shields/armor
Low HP: Pale Master gets a nice boost
Low bab: low compared to other pale master builds?
Low no. of attacks: Flurry of blows
So is rather useless for a melee char: Perhaps not quite as useless as first suspected

Low AC: ok, let's say you have around int 18, dex 18, wis 18 (but this is really demanding, you will not have any con/str). This means that you have an ac of 27. That's not a whole lot. For a mage yes, but for a melee char...
Low HP: same as above. You do not have free stat points to put on con, cannot have the luxury of getting thoughness (since you have only a few feats, and most of them are spent on duelist prereqs).
Low bab: grrrr, we are talking about a melee build. It does not matter which class is a build in, surely it has great bab compared to a mage, but since this build cannot effectively cast spells (missing around 12 levels of mage), and it has low bab compared to fighters/barbs and the like, it isn't good.
No. of attacks: same as above
Oh, and what about the damage?