Wizard creation, need pointers

[De_Priester]

I want to start a wizard, now in bdg2 I'd know exactly what to pick and why but with this game it's a bit more tricky for example:

Maxing out int right away means wasting statpoints especially since you can get a statpoint at third or fourth level.

Going to low on either constitution or int means a lack of skill or hitpoints.

Do specialist mages still gain a bonus spell in each level or do they get the same as a general wizard?

If so what's the bonus to being a specialist mage in this game and what's a better choice?

What kind of stats should be picked up front and why?

I'm kind of the magic missile, timestop, breach, lower resistance, flame arrow, acid arrow, summon skeleton kind of wizard.

Some pointers please....

[Tricky]

I'd like to add a single line to your list of questions, if you don't mind.

Does a wizard benefit from high Dex (AC bonus) enough to focus on it, instead of taking the constitution route to your build?

[De_Priester]

It's like this,

If you can manage a good group and have one or two tanks/melee characters that take point constitution is more important, simply because it comes in handy with aoe spells now in NWN where you had a single henchman dexterity was also very important because you got hit more often and dex = AC so harder to hit.

Personally when playing in a full party with nwn2 I seriously hope you won't be hit that much to require high dex, might be a bit tricky early on when you don't have a full party. But constitution works better since those tricky spells can hit you even in the background.

[Xandax]

I'd like to add a single line to your list of questions, if you don't mind.

Does a wizard benefit from high Dex (AC bonus) enough to focus on it, instead of taking the constitution route to your build?

Please make new threads when you ask new questions, instead of hijacking threads
(Or read my answers below)

I want to start a wizard, now in bdg2 I'd know exactly what to pick and why but with this game it's a bit more tricky for example:

Maxing out int right away means wasting statpoints especially since you can get a statpoint at third or fourth level.

Going to low on either constitution or int means a lack of skill or hitpoints.

Do specialist mages still gain a bonus spell in each level or do they get the same as a general wizard?

If so what's the bonus to being a specialist mage in this game and what's a better choice?

What kind of stats should be picked up front and why?

I'm kind of the magic missile, timestop, breach, lower resistance, flame arrow, acid arrow, summon skeleton kind of wizard.

Some pointers please....

Personally, I would not start with an intelligence of higher then 15, and then place each bonus point into intelligence. This will ensure you have a high enough int.score to cast the appropiate level spells when you reach them.
Also because of the workings of the point-buy system - as you indicate - you will "waste" points by going high in the beginning, compared to what you could gain by using bonus points instead.

Dexterity I'd go around 16 for the AC, and because if using weapons (and you will), ranged weapons are prefered. Also to improve the ranged touch hit chance which I believe is modified by your dexterity bonus.

Constitution and Wisdom, I'd go max 12 (or 14 if you can spare points, but that would be mainly for the savethrows), and not below 10 (for due to negative modifier). Strenght is - well "free for all", as I'd personally do either 8 or 10. It is not that important save carrying limit, unless you want to multiclass and go bashing with a (non-finess) meele weapon. Charisma is where I'd place the remainder points. Charisma improves many diplomatic skills. So I tend to keep some focus on that myself.

Just remember, when the level cap is 20 you should always have an odd number of starting statistics with an odd score, because you'll get 5 bonus points. If you do not, you waste a point bonus wise. (Hence why I suggested 15 intelligence, giving you one odd numbered score).


I can't remember 100% if bonus spells are awarded to specialists wizards, however other bonuses they have are amongst others increased difficulty checks towards spells of their school (I think a +1 bonus) - meaning spells are harder to resists.
For a "first" wizard, I'd not go specialist personally, simply because I believe it is better to be a generalists when learning the ropes and to avoid limiting yourself to much.

[De_Priester]

Personally, I would not start with an intelligence of higher then 15, and then place each bonus point into intelligence. This will ensure you have a high enough int.score to cast the appropiate level spells when you reach them.
Also because of the workings of the point-buy system - as you indicate - you will "waste" points by going high in the beginning, compared to what you could gain by using bonus points instead..

But doesn't intelligence also increase the ammount of skillpoints you get each level?

Dexterity I'd go around 16 for the AC, and because if using weapons (and you will), ranged weapons are prefered. Also to improve the ranged touch hit chance which I believe is modified by your dexterity bonus.

Now I kinda agree with this but higher INT also means MORE spells to cast, and unless you run out of spells you won't need to use weapons. But I agree dexterity does help with the ranged weapon hitchance hence why I won't forget about dexterity but going as high as 16 mmm I dunno, maybe 15 as a starter.

Constitution and Wisdom, I'd go max 12 (or 14 if you can spare points, but that would be mainly for the savethrows), and not below 10 (for due to negative modifier). Strenght is - well "free for all", as I'd personally do either 8 or 10. It is not that important save carrying limit, unless you want to multiclass and go bashing with a (non-finess) meele weapon. Charisma is where I'd place the remainder points. Charisma improves many diplomatic skills. So I tend to keep some focus on that myself.

I go 8 for strength, let someone else carry stuff for me as for constitution and wisdom agreed 12 or 14 but mainly for the savethrows, especially seeing as this saves yer buttocks while dealing with mages.

Just remember, when the level cap is 20 you should always have an odd number of starting statistics with an odd score, because you'll get 5 bonus points. If you do not, you waste a point bonus wise. (Hence why I suggested 15 intelligence, giving you one odd numbered score).

Aye, good point, and I figured as much however I didn't know if say intelligence adds more skillpoints each level (I think it did in NWN) so going to low on int early on means you have a small problem with skillpoints. So it's a question between more statpoints or more skillpoints each levelup....

I can't remember 100% if bonus spells are awarded to specialists wizards, however other bonuses they have are amongst others increased difficulty checks towards spells of their school (I think a +1 bonus) - meaning spells are harder to resists.
For a "first" wizard, I'd not go specialist personally, simply because I believe it is better to be a generalists when learning the ropes and to avoid limiting yourself to much.

Specialist mages do not gain any bonus feats (that's what you described) they just pick them for you so you don't have to. For example a general mage can pick the exact same things as an abjurer would. The thing I want to know is, in bdg2 and icewinddale specialist mages got one extra spell for each spelllevel but couldn't use opposing schools. When you pick the descriptions it also refers to the opposing schools but it doesn't mention if you get an extra spell for each level or not. This is probably the biggest choice I need to make since I can do without a school of magic if it means one extra spell for each spelllevel.

[De_Priester]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/neverwintern ... igence.php

So lower int at start means less skillpoints each level as you do not gain them retroactively according to the above, however the question is how much int should a wizard start with in order to reach the best result between as much stats as possible without losing many skillpoints...

[Tricky]

It may depend on your build. As said before, high int gives you extra spell slots. Also consider that wizards generally want to cast stuff from a distance. Even though some enemies may come after you, a good wizard should be able to paralyze or otherwise incapacitate them.

Shouldn't that be reason enough to go completely wild on Int?

[Magrus]

@ De_Priester:

I would suggest the following build, possibly modified by race:

Str: 8 (none)
Dex: 16 (10)
Con: 14 (6)
Int: 18/20 (18 if picking a race without a +2 to Int, 16 points spent either way)
Wis: 8 (none)
Cha: 8 (none)

The reason being, with a high Int, and the spending of a feat...pick the "Able Learner" feat at your first opportunity. Either 1st level, or short of that, pick one of the 1st level entry feats first, and Able learner 3rd. "Mind over Body" is a new feat I haven't seen before, and it may be worth looking into at 1st level if you plan on picking a lot of feats like spell focus, spell penetration, and the metamagic feats. It gives you a bonus to HP based on your Int for first level, then switches to Con for the other levels and adds a +1 to HP for every Metamagic and Spellcasting feat you take. If you take every feat beyond this one and Able Learner as a spellcasting feat you stand to gain your Int Mod + 8 HP. Dropping one more to take Toughness will add +1 HP/level to your total. If you want high HP, that could be a route to go for you.

As for the loss of Wis and Cha in order to boost the other stats, and taking Able Learner. Here's why. Spending that one feat allows you to purchase any cross-class skills for 1 point each. You still have a max of 1/2 your class skill ranks for max ranks in those skills, they just cost the same to increase as class skills. With a 18 or 20 Int, you can get 6 or 7 skill points each level, 7 or 8 if you are human. If you do not plan on crafting items with this character, you can do the following:

Bluff: 1/2 Max
Concentration- Max
Craft- Alchemy: 1/2 Max
Diplomacy- 1/2 Max
Heal- 1/2 Max
Lore- Max
Spellcraft- Max
Tumble- 1/2 Max
Use Magic Device- 1/2 Max

You won't be able to max out all of them right away, however, given that you will have at least 6 points right off, and every feat short of Perform which will be barred to you will only cost 1 point after 3rd level, you can afford to switch between your cross-class skills after you have pushed them to your current limit. At 6th level, you can have a max of 9 in class skills and 4 in cross-class skills. With your Cha penalty, you would still have a +3 Diplomacy/Intimidate/Bluff skill easily. It wont guarantee you will be a smooth talker in every situation, but so far in my game, I have only made roughly 300 gp extra having an insane amount of points in Cha based skills up through the quests surround Fort Locke (graveyard, swamp cave, bandits and prior quests). The ante will go up as I progress in game I am sure, but getting a bonus of 5% of my current gold stash in exchange for more spells seems worth it to me to ditch my Cha if I want to be a blaster type wizard.

The reason I suggest the high strength, which some view as wasting points is this. Read this chart, as this is the game mechanic this game is working on:

[url="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#abilitiesAndSpellcasters"]Abilities and Spellcasters[/url]

As you can see, if you do the route of starting at 15, and going up to 20 at max level, you limit your bonus spells. If you reach 22-23 by starting at 18, you get one extra 2nd level and one 6th level spell as a bonus. If you reach 24-25 you better the 20 score by an extra 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th level spells. This means a difference of spells per day as follows per each score:

Int: 0/1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th/8th/9th

20: 4/6/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/4
23: 4/6/6/5/5/5/5/4/4/4
25: 4/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/4/4

If you don't mind taking a hit to Con, you can go for a Sun Elf, and they get a +2 Int and -2 Con, with the Long and Short bow proficiences, as well as some other racial bonuses.

Oh, choosing a specialist wizard grants you 1 bonus spell per spell level of the spell school you specialize in. Becoming an illusionist means you get 1 extra Illusion spell per spell level.

[De_Priester]

@ De_Priester:

Oh, choosing a specialist wizard grants you 1 bonus spell per spell level of the spell school you specialize in. Becoming an illusionist means you get 1 extra Illusion spell per spell level.

So is that one extra spell to cast (as in extra castingslots) or one extra spell you can pick from the magiclist each time you level up?

[Magrus]

That is one extra spell slot to cast per day. You still get the same amount of spells known, just extra spells to cast. Both for high Int and specialization. However, a high Int gives you more 1st level spells at creation when you are a wizard. You should get 3 plus your Int modifier in 1st level spells known when you create your wizard. So, a wizard with a 15 Intelligence at creation will have 5 1st level spells known while say a Sun Elf, Tiefling or Drow elf Wizard with a 20 Int will have 8 1st level spells known.