Power Attack vs Flurry

[Caden]

After extensive testing, I learned Power Attack is far better than Flurry and is essential for Soldiers/Guardians.

I took Juhani out today for Rancor hunting and gave her a regular sized (no crystals) lightsaber and an off hand (no crystals) short lightsaber. After numerous attacking with unaltered stats and then more testing using Master Speed, I learned that each attack did 9-16 damage on average. After using her 3rd tier Power Attack. Each attack did well over 20 damage and 40 on crits.

To concur, all four of the attacks she gained through Master Speed were affected by the +10 damage from Power Attack, adding a whopping +40 damage. More than the damage you’d get from an extra attack from Flurry, even while using a double-bladed lightsaber (with Solari and Upari crystals) which only deals 6-31 (and an additional 1-8 vs. dark) damage - plus STR modifiers. Before, all 4 of the attacks from the two (no crystals) lightsabers did 9-16 damage, and after, easily were all doing 20 and up damage.

It was great to equip her with a Double-Bladed Solari/Upari Lightsaber, cast Master Speed and see her kill a young Rancor in one Power Attack.

It’s my suggestion to use Power Attack and that Flurry is considered for:
A: those using a 25% chance to stun crystal/item.
B: someone using only one single-blade lightsaber (which Critical Strike is also good for, especially vs bosses).
C: Someone who doesn’t plan to get the Master Speed ability.

(I just thought I’d share this info since I’ve seen so many sites like GameSpot say that Power Attack is useless.)

[fable]

Not useless, but not as good as Flurry. The math has all been worked out. You're welcome to check it up on GameFAQs, where I believe 2 strategy guides both show how Flurry beats Power Attacks--because the more attacks you get in, especially with a weapon that has a stun possibility, the more chance there is of hitting that stun percentage.

[Caden]

Well I don't know about which of the thirty Faqs they have on Kotor you're talking about, but maybe you could help me out by telling me or just explaining the math yourself.

[Caden]

As far as I can tell, the math is four attacks from using two weapons - plus Master Speed and an additional 40 damage from Power Strike - adding 10 damage to each attack.

Or four attacks from using two weapons - plus Master Speed and an additional attack from Flurry equaling out to five attacks.

As I mentioned above that no extra attack, even from a Double-Blade with solari and upari, can equal out to 40 damage on average, without having atleast +20 damage modifier from Str, which would mean you'd have to have 50 str. Also, I already mentioned that Flurry is good for those that use a stunning weapon.

[fable]

[QUOTE=Caden]Well I don't know about which of the thirty Faqs they have on Kotor you're talking about, but maybe you could help me out by telling me or just explaining the math yourself.[/QUOTE]

Eleven, not thirty FAQs, but I am sorry to hear about your war injury that prevents you from using CTRL+F to quickly search through them for comparisons of Flurry and Power Attack. I just did that, again, and found the following on Power Attack in Thuyker's guide:

Furthermore, while the feat can be quite useful early on in your adventure, since it provides only a flat damage increase, it rapidly loses its effectiveness. Later, relative to the hit points of the tougher enemies, the damage added is quite insignificant. I much prefer the Flurry feat to this one, as the extra attacks have the potential of doing the same (if not more) damage that the Power Attack would anyway.

He notes that the To-Hit penalty of -3 is a constant on all three levels you invest in this skill. That's a significant amount of clumsiness added to attack, when the most important thing is in fact to hit your enemy. Flurry, by contrast, is less effective when immediately learned, but by the third level of expertise only gives you a -1 to defense and to-hit in all attacks of that round.

Mind, there's nothing necessarily wrong with Power Attack, especially since by using Master Speed, you're essentially using an attack similar to Flurry, already. The point is that many characters in KotoR1 don't have Jedi powers, or a player may not want to spend their Jedi points going for Master Speed; in which case, Flurry becomes much more important and potent, because it gives the extra attacks per round that can cause the damage Power Attack would provide, without the loss of to-hit that means a Power Attack completely fails to do any damage at all. And that's not even taking into account the added value of having 3 instead of 2 attacks per round with a chance to stun on several weapons.

Mind, if you prefer Power Attack to Flurry, given your character configurations, go for it, by all means, go for it. I just don't think you've proven anything, except that you like it a lot, and that it works for your kind of gameplay. Which is fine. Because that's the most important thing, in this game.

[Caden]

Eleven, not thirty FAQs, but I am sorry to hear about your war injury that prevents you from using CTRL+F to quickly search through them for comparisons of Flurry and Power Attack. I just did that, again, and found the following on Power Attack in Thuyker's guide:

Oh yeah I went through about 6 of them earlier and saw that these people have got a lot of inaccurate info they are feeding out. One guy thought you got 8 strikes from using flurry and master speed. Another guy said you should get both Dueling and Two-Weapon fighting. Finally I just decided not to use these as a source of info. Also your sarcasm is not appreciated.


And you're telling me that it doesn't look like there is about thirty Faq sources here? http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox/game/556553.html and those and here are some more for the other version. http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin ... 16675.html

[fable]

The information posted by Thuyker is accurate; so is mine. Or is this inaccuracy-by-implication? Some of the FAQs have inaccurate informatoin in some cases; therefore, Thuyker is inaccurate, because he has a FAQ, and doesn't agree with you?

As for sarcasm, consider your remark: "Well I don't know about which of the thirty Faqs they have on Kotor you're talking about..." and consider the value of casting stones while living in glass houses.

[Caden]

Dude there are about thirty there, each one has different info and I DIDN'T have any idea which one you were talking about.

[fable]

Okay, let's just agree on this: Thuyker presents information, and you present information. You like Power Attacks; he prefers Flurry. (So do I.) Both are great, under different character configurations.

Fair enough?

[Caden]

Okay so you're telling me that even though Power Attack produces about double the damage that flurry would (if you combine it with Master Speed), you should still get flurry because it only has a -1 to hit while Power Attack has a -3 to hit - which I don't think is a huge more amount. Especially when a Guardian, which is what I suggested should use Power Attack, has like 25-27 to hit? Seriously, I don't miss that often using power attack. As long as I still have about 20 hit I tend to not miss that more often then one of my party members who uses Flurry. My guess is most people didn't think Power Attack worked on all of your characters swings and they just thought it was 10 damage plus your swings. So they thought Flurry was better, cause an extra attack does about 20-25 damage (for a high str character with the right crystals) deep into the game.

Also I believe Power Attack multiplies with a critical, I might test this out later. If it does then each of your swings has increased damage from a random crit.

[fable]

[QUOTE=Caden]Okay so you're telling me that even though Power Attack produces about double the damage that flurry would (if you combine it with Master Speed), you should still get flurry because it only has a -1 to hit while Power Attack has a -3 to hit - which I don't think is a huge more amount.[/quote]

No; I'm saying that if you don't have Master Speed, and it's a matter of investing points in Flurry or Power Attack, Flurry gives better value between the two. Adding Master Speed to the equation completely changes matters. Or as I wrote, above: "point is that many characters in KotoR1 don't have Jedi powers, or a player may not want to spend their Jedi points going for Master Speed; in which case, Flurry becomes much more important and potent, because it gives the extra attacks per round that can cause the damage Power Attack would provide, without the loss of to-hit that means a Power Attack completely fails to do any damage at all. And that's not even taking into account the added value of having 3 instead of 2 attacks per round with a chance to stun on several weapons."

And as I further added: "Mind, if you prefer Power Attack to Flurry, given your character configurations, go for it, by all means, go for it. I just don't think you've proven anything, except that you like it a lot, and that it works for your kind of gameplay. Which is fine. Because that's the most important thing, in this game."

In other words, you've moved speed as an offensive factor from feats to Jedi powers. I'm discussing Power Attacks and Flurry on a level playing field, the value of one against the other, without the addition of Master Speed (that makes Flurry kinda redundant).

[Caden]

[QUOTE=fable]Okay, let's just agree on this: Thuyker presents information, and you present information. You like Power Attacks; he prefers Flurry. (So do I.) Both are great, under different character configurations.

Fair enough?[/QUOTE]True. Like I said, Power attack is more for Soldiers, Flurry is better for Scoundrels or one who chooses single blade lightsabers (critical strike is aslo good for either of these). But my point was that Power Attack is not useless like many sites and FAQ state and that so long as you have 20 hit you don't have to worry about missing and can do more damage.

[fable]

Nothing is useless (except, maybe, that stupid lightsaber-flying attack) in KotoR. It's possible to win in any number of ways. Personally, I played a soldier the second time around (using a PC; Xbox the first time), and still preferred Flurry for the reasons I described--again, just my take on it. But with the ability to carry around a few hundred healing devices (if you so choose) without experiencing either loss of mobility or unsightly bulge, who can lose with Flurry, Power Attack--or as you point out, Critical Strike? And augment any of them with powers and battle stimulants; you just can't lose.

I also give you points for combining powers and feats, where many people tend to use them separately--powers to knock the stuffings out of enemies, then feats to kill them off. Personally, I combined the defensive powers with Flurry, compensating for the defense loss due to the latter.

[Caden]

In other words, you've moved speed as an offensive factor from feats to Jedi powers. I'm discussing Power Attacks and Flurry on a level playing field, the value of one against the other, without the addition of Master Speed (that makes Flurry kinda redundant).

Your practically doing the same thing. So long as you use a weapon that does more than 20 damage on an average swing, than flurry is superior, where as two regular swings from weapons that do less than 20 damage on average with the two hits from Power Attack would add 20 damage and so makes Power Attack superior.

You're adding in a weapon that does more than 20 damage on average, where as I was adding in a suggestion to combine Master Speed with Power Attack. Even without Master Speed, Power Attack can be superior to Flurry if you're using two weapons that don't do 20 damage on an average swing.

Unless you want to factor in your preference to using chance to stun weapons. And I've already mentioned that Flurry is suggested for those using only one Single-Blade weapon.

[fable]

Read above. We're really just talking about different ways of combining powers, feats, and (it appears) weapons to achieve the same result. As far as I'm concerned, nobody's lost this discussion. We've simply provided readers with two very good but very different battle configurations.

[Caden]

I was actually just really excited when I figured this out, I've been trying to figure out which weapon styles went with which features. I've already learned that one single-blade goes best with critical strike and then flurry as a secondary feature. I'm now trying to figure out which flurry and power attack go best with, either a double-blade or two single blades. Which one goes best with which weapon style. And now I atleast know the dynamics of power attack.

[fable]

Then I think you have every reason to be pleased with what you've discovered. I think the three feats of Flurry, Critical Strike and Power Attack at actually pretty well balanced, when creatively applied with weapons and powers. They work best in combination with other factors. It's like playing chess and knowing how to best use several pieces together to achieve an objective, as opposed to relying entirely and solely on, say, the queen to do all one's work. If nothing else (and I don't mean that pejoratively), this thread should show people the value of *not* writing off a power, a weapon, or a feat, without first determining how well it can be applied in tandem with other possibiliies. And that's something very valuable.

[Cuchulain82]

I know that I'm coming into this one a little late, but I have to agree with Fable- the math about this has been beaten to death. UserUnfriendly, Dan Simpson, and tons of others have talked about this to death. GameFAQs, like Fable said, does have a full breakdown.

[Bloodthroe]

I happen to agree that Flurry is better.

[Caden]

So what is the math? I can't seem to find it, the only faq I found on dan was for K2. If someone would show me the math, maybe I might agree with them? As far as I know, you can yield an addition 40 damage with power attack and flurry has no way of applying that much additional damage without striking a critical (which I think the +damage from power attack could also multiply with crits). So I think a double-bladed guardian should get power attack.