AIDS/HIV on the rise... (blame the Shrub?) (spam-free)
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Mangle Me Elmo
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Personally, I take issue with abstinence messages in light of the very low priority AIDS research has been given nationally. AIDS wasn't brought into being by certain behaviors or actions - rather, bodily fluids serve as the vector of transmission from one human being to another. Like malaria, ebola, or dengue, its a killer that doesn't care about your viewpoints, opinions, or habits. One needn't engage in intravenous drug use utlizing infected needles or sexual intercourse with an infected person to acquire AIDS. Simply coming into contact with infected body fluids under certain conditions is how infection occurs. This can happen at a dentist's office, or in an operating room. To take the abstinence message to the logical conclusion, one should also avoid any sort of medical care as there is a risk you might be contaminated by someone else's carelessness. That doctor might not be honest about having AIDS. That technician might have neglected to dispose of a needle...and so on. AIDS is not an STD. That is but one way it can be transmitted.
I'm amazed at the overall nascience of the public in general when it comes to AIDS. A national message that pushes abstinence from "sex outside marriage", and neglects to pay any attention to AIDS research at all, strikes me as being highly suspect. First of all, it's naive to the extreme. Who's to say that your marriage partner is not infected? More than likely, they would not even be aware that they were. Some people actually serve as a carrier for HIV, and never develop AIDS. You can be infected with HIV for many years before it is detected in the body. This smacks of a lack of understanding or an unwillingness to understand how HIV is transmitted in the first place. AIDS is a killer worldwide, and a lack of response to it will not make it go away.
I am not going to link Bush to a rise in AIDS in the US. However, I can say that when it comes to the health and welfare of US citizens, his priorities are elsewhere. This does not help. In fact, in this way, you could say his lack of action has an effect. The facts are all you need here, and a perusal of his budget proposal will illuminate anyone who cares to permit a personal study of facts to influence their opinions. That has been covered in another thread, so there's no need to go into that in this one.
I'm amazed at the overall nascience of the public in general when it comes to AIDS. A national message that pushes abstinence from "sex outside marriage", and neglects to pay any attention to AIDS research at all, strikes me as being highly suspect. First of all, it's naive to the extreme. Who's to say that your marriage partner is not infected? More than likely, they would not even be aware that they were. Some people actually serve as a carrier for HIV, and never develop AIDS. You can be infected with HIV for many years before it is detected in the body. This smacks of a lack of understanding or an unwillingness to understand how HIV is transmitted in the first place. AIDS is a killer worldwide, and a lack of response to it will not make it go away.
I am not going to link Bush to a rise in AIDS in the US. However, I can say that when it comes to the health and welfare of US citizens, his priorities are elsewhere. This does not help. In fact, in this way, you could say his lack of action has an effect. The facts are all you need here, and a perusal of his budget proposal will illuminate anyone who cares to permit a personal study of facts to influence their opinions. That has been covered in another thread, so there's no need to go into that in this one.
CYNIC, n.:
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
[QUOTE=fable]What's the magical difference between using condoms or the Pill in marriage, and using one of them without being married?[/QUOTE]
Because married people NEVER have sex with anyone other than their partners, while unmarried people have sex with every stranger they meet. Aren't you aware of the moral and cultural decline in this country?
(cough, cough)
[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]I know that I'm screwed if it's ever found out that I'm actually a right-winger, not the lefty I've passed myself off as.[/QUOTE]
That's funny. In Texas, I have to fake a tolerance if not an actual affinity for conservative views if I want to get along with everybody. Maybe you should move to Texas so you can be yourself for a change.
Because married people NEVER have sex with anyone other than their partners, while unmarried people have sex with every stranger they meet. Aren't you aware of the moral and cultural decline in this country?
(cough, cough)
[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]I know that I'm screwed if it's ever found out that I'm actually a right-winger, not the lefty I've passed myself off as.[/QUOTE]
That's funny. In Texas, I have to fake a tolerance if not an actual affinity for conservative views if I want to get along with everybody. Maybe you should move to Texas so you can be yourself for a change.
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fable
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[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]@magrus: I just finished freshman year of college. Currently honing my skills of political and moral camouflage. I know that I'm screwed if it's ever found out that I'm actually a right-winger, not the lefty I've passed myself off as.[/QUOTE]
This, in a nation that's more conservative now than it has been for ninety years? Why not just admit you fit the standard mold, and link arms with the vast rush to the right? You'll be doing yourself a favor.
This, in a nation that's more conservative now than it has been for ninety years? Why not just admit you fit the standard mold, and link arms with the vast rush to the right? You'll be doing yourself a favor.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]
@fable: Doh! You caught me. That 'natural selection theory' was a joke I started in high school. Being the only conservative (I live in california), I gained acceptance by occasionally allowing myself to become the right-wing nut-job stereotype (being able to laugh at my own party). Of course, such sarcasm is much more obvious in a real life setting than a message board. My old youth pastor would do the same thing on occasional gatherings. Cuz let's face it, nut-jobs are funny no matter what side of the aisle you're on.[/QUOTE]
I seriously dislike debating with someone who is not serious or at the very least prepared to stand for their views. I seriously take issue with many things you have written, but the nature of your postings make it impossible to tell what is just a joke and what is a serious post. Do I have to challange every single little insignificant detail to get to know what is real opinions and not?
Note also that this was a no spam thread.
@fable: Doh! You caught me. That 'natural selection theory' was a joke I started in high school. Being the only conservative (I live in california), I gained acceptance by occasionally allowing myself to become the right-wing nut-job stereotype (being able to laugh at my own party). Of course, such sarcasm is much more obvious in a real life setting than a message board. My old youth pastor would do the same thing on occasional gatherings. Cuz let's face it, nut-jobs are funny no matter what side of the aisle you're on.[/QUOTE]
I seriously dislike debating with someone who is not serious or at the very least prepared to stand for their views. I seriously take issue with many things you have written, but the nature of your postings make it impossible to tell what is just a joke and what is a serious post. Do I have to challange every single little insignificant detail to get to know what is real opinions and not?
Note also that this was a no spam thread.
While others climb the mountains High, beneath the tree I love to lie
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
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Mangle Me Elmo
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@Dottie: Who cares? It's just a message board, and no one gains or loses anything by winning or losing a debate on here. None of my friends or family has aids, and I doubt I'll care about the issue until one of them does get it, which is highly unlikely. The virus is gaining momentum in a country that I love and admire (japan), so I am concerned about it in that case. However, there's nothing I can do about the problem, accept not becoming part of it by protecting myself and making wise decisions as previously stated.
Your ancestors may have evolved from monkeys, but mine did not.
Dottie, you shouldn't try to debate American conservatives. They're not intellectually serious--in fact, one of the hallmarks of conservatism is its anti-intellectual bias. They have an annoying tendency to shift their arguments (can anyone tell me why we went to war with Iraq?) and to duck responsibility for anything they say or anything they do. Just look at the leader of THE conservative American political party, George W. Bush.
I guess I'm guilty of spam, but I was merely following the tendency of this thread to make its subject the views of one participant.
To get back on topic, I don't think America will hold Dubya responsible for anything, including the worsening of the AIDS epidemic. For all of the talk about making parents responsible for instilling restraint and moral values in their own children, you never hear anyone talk about what a bad job George Bush Sr. did when it came to raising his children (he actually claims to be "proud" of his son Neil), or what a bad job George W. or his brother Jeb did as parents if you consider how their children have turned out. They're "good people", so you don't have to judge them by their actions. By default, they can do no wrong.
Personally, I think the AIDS epidemic should have been treated like any other dangerous contagious disease when it first became public, with screenings, quarantines, and a genuine effort to find a cure or a vaccine. But a lot of people didn't want to do what it would take to treat it. That included homophobes, but it also included the gay community. They didn't want doctors telling them to compromise their lifestyle by limiting their sexual activity or using condoms. I saw gay newsletters in the early 1980's that blacklisted doctors who proposed such measures, because they were "discriminatory".
When you get down to it, only individuals can control their own sexual behavior. You can give them all the messages you want, but if they don't listen, they will do whatever they feel like doing, and the responsibility for what happens to them is entirely their own. However, I still think that public educations programs are important, and I think the government has a responsibility to do everything it can to protect the public from contagious diseases. It's clear that the U.S. government has never done enough.
I guess I'm guilty of spam, but I was merely following the tendency of this thread to make its subject the views of one participant.
To get back on topic, I don't think America will hold Dubya responsible for anything, including the worsening of the AIDS epidemic. For all of the talk about making parents responsible for instilling restraint and moral values in their own children, you never hear anyone talk about what a bad job George Bush Sr. did when it came to raising his children (he actually claims to be "proud" of his son Neil), or what a bad job George W. or his brother Jeb did as parents if you consider how their children have turned out. They're "good people", so you don't have to judge them by their actions. By default, they can do no wrong.
Personally, I think the AIDS epidemic should have been treated like any other dangerous contagious disease when it first became public, with screenings, quarantines, and a genuine effort to find a cure or a vaccine. But a lot of people didn't want to do what it would take to treat it. That included homophobes, but it also included the gay community. They didn't want doctors telling them to compromise their lifestyle by limiting their sexual activity or using condoms. I saw gay newsletters in the early 1980's that blacklisted doctors who proposed such measures, because they were "discriminatory".
When you get down to it, only individuals can control their own sexual behavior. You can give them all the messages you want, but if they don't listen, they will do whatever they feel like doing, and the responsibility for what happens to them is entirely their own. However, I still think that public educations programs are important, and I think the government has a responsibility to do everything it can to protect the public from contagious diseases. It's clear that the U.S. government has never done enough.
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dragon wench
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[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]@Dottie: Who cares? It's just a message board, and no one gains or loses anything by winning or losing a debate on here. None of my friends or family has aids, and I doubt I'll care about the issue until one of them does get it, which is highly unlikely. The virus is gaining momentum in a country that I love and admire (japan), so I am concerned about it in that case. However, there's nothing I can do about the problem, accept not becoming part of it by protecting myself and making wise decisions as previously stated.[/QUOTE]
1. This is not simply a message board, it is a community, and unlike many message boards we try to maintain some levels of mutual respect.
2. Your attitude is sadly typical of why compassion and basic humanity is lacking in so many areas. i.e "It won't affect me, or my family so therefore I really don't give a damn."
I could at this point show you volumes of research on just how much HIV and unplanned pregnancy *do* affect "Christian" communities, but this is neither the time nor place.
3. There *are* things you can do about it. You could volunteer in any number of HIV awareness centres.
4. As Dottie has already stated, the author of this thread expressly requested that there be no spam in this thread. Moreover, how can you possibly expect your opinions to be considered valid if you fail to elucidate whether you are serious or simply jesting?
1. This is not simply a message board, it is a community, and unlike many message boards we try to maintain some levels of mutual respect.
2. Your attitude is sadly typical of why compassion and basic humanity is lacking in so many areas. i.e "It won't affect me, or my family so therefore I really don't give a damn."
I could at this point show you volumes of research on just how much HIV and unplanned pregnancy *do* affect "Christian" communities, but this is neither the time nor place.
3. There *are* things you can do about it. You could volunteer in any number of HIV awareness centres.
4. As Dottie has already stated, the author of this thread expressly requested that there be no spam in this thread. Moreover, how can you possibly expect your opinions to be considered valid if you fail to elucidate whether you are serious or simply jesting?
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testingtest12
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Mangle Me Elmo
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As implied, i don't care if my opinions are perceived as valid. Anyway, it's sad alll those people are dying, but there's no use in becoming emotionally involved if it's way beyond my control. Don't ask me why, but I seem to have an exclusively large amount of compassion for Japanese people (also implied earlier). I'm not a heartless, mindless conservative. In fact, I'm more of a half-hearted, half-baked independent (more jesting, although I am anti-death penalty). Even though our opinions may not be based on reason, there are many who believe reason can't solve everything, but faith can (no use in explaining this to agnostics, I suppose). I am a compassionate person, but my emotions are very controlled and focused to only those issues I'm capable of impacting, and the people within my range of saving. If the president is in fact the devil that you libs claim he is, it shall be known in the end, so I'm not getting myself worked up over injustices in the present, cuz i believed they'll all be rectified eventually. My attitude stems from my belief that I'm simply passing through this brief life, I suppose (although I have some very ambitious plans for the future, make no mistake). I'm sure you 'open-minded' people can reason that out on your own.
Your ancestors may have evolved from monkeys, but mine did not.
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Galuf the Dwarf
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Please Take This Lightly, Folks...
but I'm surprised NO comments were made on my original post in this thread.
but I'm surprised NO comments were made on my original post in this thread.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
[QUOTE=fable]Er, did you read the context of my remarks, and that I thought the abstinence campaign was utterly ludicrous?[/QUOTE]
I know. I was just questioning the "nearly". I lived for some years in the Swedish Jerusalem, and I can't say that I can recollect a single case where the hormones lost. The combination of religious zealots and the suppression of sexual education (yes, it happens here too, albeit not officially) did however cause the region to have more unwanted pregnancies than any other region in the country. Number of patients infected with STD's were in second place as compared to all other regions in the country. A student in my class became father at a baptist youth camp in the bushes outside the barracks some 20 meters from a condom machine.
I know. I was just questioning the "nearly". I lived for some years in the Swedish Jerusalem, and I can't say that I can recollect a single case where the hormones lost. The combination of religious zealots and the suppression of sexual education (yes, it happens here too, albeit not officially) did however cause the region to have more unwanted pregnancies than any other region in the country. Number of patients infected with STD's were in second place as compared to all other regions in the country. A student in my class became father at a baptist youth camp in the bushes outside the barracks some 20 meters from a condom machine.
The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations David Friedman
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Cuchulain82
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[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]but I'm surprised NO comments were made on my original post in this thread.[/QUOTE]
The really astounding thing to me is that no one has referenced the article I posted.
@DW, Dottie
Thanks for sticking up for my thread ! You guys are the best.
@Mangle MeElmo
What they said about GB is true- this place does have a much greater feeling of community. Once you start posting here, it is tough to stop. You will probably never get flamed here, and if you do, the flamer will be quickly banned. Serious topics are discussed here sometimes, and people get involed with what they write. However, there is plenty of spamming, and if you just want to chat and joke, there are great threads for that too.
The really astounding thing to me is that no one has referenced the article I posted.
@DW, Dottie
Thanks for sticking up for my thread
! You guys are the best.@Mangle MeElmo
What they said about GB is true- this place does have a much greater feeling of community. Once you start posting here, it is tough to stop. You will probably never get flamed here, and if you do, the flamer will be quickly banned. Serious topics are discussed here sometimes, and people get involed with what they write. However, there is plenty of spamming, and if you just want to chat and joke, there are great threads for that too.
Custodia legis
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Galuf the Dwarf
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[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]The really astounding thing to me is that no one has referenced the article I posted.[/QUOTE]
I can see that.
I can see that.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
@Cuch, I read the CNN article, just didn't see the point to copy and paste parts of it.
@Galuf, In all honesty, it's my opinion that the needles would be a lesser thing. The government is fairly aggressive in cracking down on drug use. I've done no research on any of this though, so I don't know for sure.
@Galuf, In all honesty, it's my opinion that the needles would be a lesser thing. The government is fairly aggressive in cracking down on drug use. I've done no research on any of this though, so I don't know for sure.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]The really astounding thing to me is that no one has referenced the article I posted.[/QUOTE]
My only comment about the original article is that I feel like I've been hearing the number "1 million" every year for the past fifteen years. Does anybody really know how many people are suffering from AIDS?
My only comment about the original article is that I feel like I've been hearing the number "1 million" every year for the past fifteen years. Does anybody really know how many people are suffering from AIDS?
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fable
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[QUOTE=Silur]I know. I was just questioning the "nearly". I lived for some years in the Swedish Jerusalem, and I can't say that I can recollect a single case where the hormones lost.[/quote]
When someone says something will never happen "unless pigs fly," I always make sure I have some paper handy, just in case a porker decides to pass, overhead.
The combination of religious zealots and the suppression of sexual education (yes, it happens here too, albeit not officially) did however cause the region to have more unwanted pregnancies than any other region in the country. Number of patients infected with STD's were in second place as compared to all other regions in the country. A student in my class became father at a baptist youth camp in the bushes outside the barracks some 20 meters from a condom machine.
LOL! And my wife's uncle, a minister and missionary in the Four Square Church. got a girl his age pregnant at a church back when they were both students, there. Of course, he married her, and I guess that makes it alright, and noble, and shows that he never had a sex drive.
When someone says something will never happen "unless pigs fly," I always make sure I have some paper handy, just in case a porker decides to pass, overhead.
The combination of religious zealots and the suppression of sexual education (yes, it happens here too, albeit not officially) did however cause the region to have more unwanted pregnancies than any other region in the country. Number of patients infected with STD's were in second place as compared to all other regions in the country. A student in my class became father at a baptist youth camp in the bushes outside the barracks some 20 meters from a condom machine.
LOL! And my wife's uncle, a minister and missionary in the Four Square Church. got a girl his age pregnant at a church back when they were both students, there. Of course, he married her, and I guess that makes it alright, and noble, and shows that he never had a sex drive.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=VonDondu]My only comment about the original article is that I feel like I've been hearing the number "1 million" every year for the past fifteen years. Does anybody really know how many people are suffering from AIDS?[/QUOTE]
I've not looked very thoroughly but I found a study in the Journal of american medical association that says 650 000 - 900 000 infected with HIV in 1992 in the USA, so the number 1 million doesn't seem unlikely.
If you have not already, I suggest you try out Google scholar. As far as I can understand it give links only to peer reviewed articles, so its good if you are looking for some quick but accurate facts.
I've not looked very thoroughly but I found a study in the Journal of american medical association that says 650 000 - 900 000 infected with HIV in 1992 in the USA, so the number 1 million doesn't seem unlikely.
If you have not already, I suggest you try out Google scholar. As far as I can understand it give links only to peer reviewed articles, so its good if you are looking for some quick but accurate facts.
While others climb the mountains High, beneath the tree I love to lie
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun