Pope John Paul II, 84, what happens next?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:45 pm

Just read this:

Fans of traditional doctrine bet on Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, a Colombian who has stood up to his country's ruthless drug lords. Some Vatican insiders are partial to Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, Pope John Paul II's chief of staff. But among those speculating about who the next pope will be, the big money - literally - is on Joseph Ratzinger, who delivered a stirring homily at the late pope's funeral.

Hoyos has integrity, but he's described as extremely conservative on doctrine and theology. He has vigorously opposed Liberation Theology, and pretty much concurs with everything JP2 has done.

Joseph Ratzinger was the righthand man of JP2. I've read him referred to a few years ago as "Augustine's Torquemada," which, if you know anything about those two, should tell you a thing about both JP2 and Re.

Suffice to say, he's noted for his intelligence but rigidity of thought and ruthlessness of control.

In this lot, Battista Re, a staunch conservative, is actually the most moderate--simply because he supports devolution of power back to local churches. Otherwise, he's doctrinaire down the line.

No surprises, in other words. Not that we were anticipating any.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:12 pm

I thought that they were shooting for more of a no-name than those guys.

Personal question for you fable, feel free to decline answer.

Before you descovered you were a Wiccan, were you raised in the church?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:20 pm

Actually, I was Bishop of Blefescu.

No--definitely never Roman Catholic.

But the RCC is a major force for the retention and transmission of ideas, and probably the single largest hiearchal religious disseminator in the world. So I find myself intrigued, even as I am appalled at the alternating series of cynical and ethical but ideologically rigid popes that appeared throughout history. I have to say, I find many Roman Catholics very attractive people, but not the RCC, itself.

Sorry for the spam.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:25 pm

What do you think the name will be? I've heard 3 to 2 it's John Paul III.

(I just thought you were a little more interested than your standard outsider.

)

ik911 · Post by **ik911** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:18 pm

Habent Papam. The conservative Joseph Ratzinger, 78 years old, is now known as Benedictus XVI, pope of the Vatican.

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:35 pm

"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany today was elected the 265th pope and took the name Benedict XVI. Once the archbishop of Munich, Germany, Ratzinger, 78, was already one of the most powerful men in the Vatican and is widely acknowledged as a leading theologian."

- CNN

Ratzinger

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:08 pm

LOL! Augustine's Torquemada, the most conservative of the three arch-conservatives. Well, that was surprising...not. So does anyone besides me think that his first order of real business to his flock will be to italicize all the decisions made by JP2 in the past?

maverick8088 · Post by **maverick8088** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:45 pm

I heard some of the goals of Benedict XVI are to:

1. bring back the Inquisition.
2. encourage the suppression of knowledge
3. whip up a bloody frenzy against Muslims in an attempt to relive the glory years of the Crusades.
4. put sexually abusive preists on a "Round Robin" system so they always have fresh altar boys.
5. Lastly, find another Adolf Hitler to make a non interference treaty with.

All in all, a continuation of traditional RCC policy...

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:54 pm

@maverick8088...
Not that some of that is too far off the mark IMO, but I do believe you may incur the wrath of some members/mods with that...

maverick8088 · Post by **maverick8088** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:10 pm

Maybe so, but I get tired of the RCC claiming infallibilty, representing God, and all that when the things I listed are only scratching the surface of the crimes against Humanity the RCC has committed without being called to account. Anyone who doubts the validity of my remarks should read the book "The Bad Popes" by Russell Chamberlain. Very enlightening...

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:02 pm

Remember as always with religion, to keep this on a somewhat neutral basis, and @maverick8088 - your statements in your post a little up, are extreemly borderlining and could easily be looked upon as trolling.

Please be observant that what you post has actual value for the thread.

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Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:20 am

[QUOTE=maverick8088]I heard some of the goals of Benedict XVI are to:

1. bring back the Inquisition.
2. encourage the suppression of knowledge
3. whip up a bloody frenzy against Muslims in an attempt to relive the glory years of the Crusades.
4. put sexually abusive preists on a "Round Robin" system so they always have fresh altar boys.
5. Lastly, find another Adolf Hitler to make a non interference treaty with.

All in all, a continuation of traditional RCC policy...[/QUOTE]

With all due respect, where did you "hear" this?

Personally, I just see you trolling. Your context in using Hitler, Muslims, the Inquisition, the glory of the Crusades is to me, outright appalling. A bit of sarcasm maybe, but nevertheless very offensive.

If you can't validate your so-called claims of what you "heard"

, then I suggest, you put a lid on them, and settle for facts.

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:12 am

Oh he's only trying to make a little joke and make light of the argument. He didn't mean anything by it. I mean, the Roman Catholic Church has done everything he stated, he's just giving light sarcasm in saying that it's not like anything's really going to change. ^_^ Take it easy guys.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:53 am

Rock and roll is profane, mundane and must be banned. So says the pope. But with this, half of his flock goes to hell... something to ponder.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:04 pm

Yeah I herd on the news that he was also called Cardinal No, I believe. He turned down almost evrything that he saw wrong, I am sorry if this has been posted already. I forgot the rest I will come back annd edit it when I remember.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:09 pm

I heard on our news last night that this pope was a member of the Hitler Youth... Apparently he was coerced...
Maybe this is slander on my part.. but I have to admit.. I do question the coercion factor..

Note: I truly do not mean to offend anyone here, nor is this an attempt at trolling, I'm just weighing up everything we know about the man, and frankly, given many of his views, I don't think it would be a complete stretch to suggest that perhaps his joining of the Hitler Youth was somewhat more voluntary than he states..

ik911 · Post by **ik911** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:28 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]I heard on our news last night that this pope was a member of the Hitler Youth... Apparently he was coerced...
Maybe this is slander on my part.. but I have to admit.. I do question the coercion factor..

Note: I truly do not mean to offend anyone here, nor is this an attempt at trolling, I'm just weighing up everything we know about the man, and frankly, given many of his views, I don't think it would be a complete stretch to suggest that perhaps his joining of the Hitler Youth was somewhat more voluntary than he states..[/QUOTE]

No, it is completely possible he was coerced. It happened to a lot of boys back then. The other boys of the village would come to the non-participant's houses and literally drag them into the Youth Movement. Mind you, the majority of kids were in and parents were okay, even proud, with their kids being in the Hitler Jugend. Also, Hitler wasn't seen as an evil man, people were brainwashed or ignorant about his actions through propaganda and media cencorship.

So the fact that he was in the Hitler Youth is no argument for anything, and as innocent as being with the boyscouts.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:38 pm

[QUOTE=ik911]No, it is completely possible he was coerced. It happened to a lot of boys back then. The other boys of the village would come to the non-participant's houses and literally drag them into the Youth Movement. Mind you, the majority of kids were in and parents were okay, even proud, with their kids being in the Hitler Jugend. Also, Hitler wasn't seen as an evil man, people were brainwashed or ignorant about his actions through propaganda and media cencorship.

So the fact that he was in the Hitler Youth is in fact as innocent as being with the boyscouts.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm aware of the way that Hitler Youth members were "recruited," and indeed it is entirely possible that such did happen with the new pope. I am simply questioning whether or not this type of coercion, in fact, occurred. I mean, these days it is hardly politic, especially for those with ambitions of power, to admit that they happily joined the Hitler Youth. Similarily, many French people claim to have been a part of the Resistance. In reaility, a great number were actually supporters of the Vichy Regime.

Anyway.. I should probably have posted the above in the other pope thread. This is horribly off topic, so my apologies.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:17 pm

@Dragon Wench, That is was what I was going to say. I just remembered that. And didn't he say that he was going to try to start "Banning" Rock music for catholics? I know that he says that he doesn't approve of it but I thought I herd somwthing like that.

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:39 pm

Well look, hardly any child in the entire Reich could be without his Hitler Youth 'education'. Seeing as they were ALL forced to whether they wanted to or not. If you didn't join it, you were either persecuted, or your parents were. So obviously you weren't left with much of a choice. It's almost an exact sertainty that he was forced to go in. I seriously doubt (dispite the fact that I don't like him) that he joined it of his own free will. And even if he did, so what? Dosn't make him evil to join a place where they mostly had physical education and no more or less brainwashing as you call it ik911, than in any other part of the Reich. All children had to serve in the Hitler Youth, period. That's just the way it was. I'm even thankful that he did, having experienced 'the evil' at least he'd know how to fight it. (I hope). Still what bothers me more than debating on whether or not he's a fascist, is if he's Anti-Communist. God damnit couldn't it have been Martini to win? He's the only 'red' cardinal left.