Thinking of having a PC built: Seeking help, advice and suggestions

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:06 pm

I am hoping to replace my computer in the next six months, and after researching the subject and consulting various people I've concluded that it would be best to have one built.

However, I really do not know very much about computer components, and the average guy in the shop is going to realise very quickly I couldn't figure out the difference between two different video cards without testing them first if my life depeded on it.

Hence, I'm asking for a little advice

So let's say I asked some of you techies to build me a machine, what would you build me? I am looking for something mid-to-high end, basically a good, solid computer that is likely to meet my needs for the next 3 to 4 years. I use a computer for internet, email, gaming, Word documents etc.

Cheers for any replies

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:58 pm

Well - depends on the amount of money you wish to spend in usually my reply

I would start by laying out a budget - then take a look at what component you can put in and then decide between them.
I can not really throw out components off the top of my head, without knowing the price range. For instance graphics card these days come from cheap to rather expensive. Graphics card is becomming the most expensive component in computers these days if you wish to have a high-end gaming machine in my exprience (with danish prices anways).

You also need to decide whether to go AMD or Intel which seems to be mostly a matter of taste these days.

Once you have decided that - it is rather easy. Decide on Motherboard, CPU and Graphic cards. Also remember RAM - I generally would advice at least 512 MB, but if you want to spring for it - 1 GB of RAM is actually rather nice, and does help when running Win2K or XP (in my experience).
Always always *ALWAYS* remember to buy 1.part RAM, never go for 2 or 3. It is simply to risky and you risk having to return it often due to bad sectors which can be tricky to find unless the computer crashes from it.

Harddrive is rather cheap - so there isn't that much I can tell you there - except go for fluid drives (do they come in anything else anymore?) and try to get a good cache on it. Also don't be sucked it and choose the highest RPM drives on the market, because they generally make more noise and last shorter time and generate more heat.

Network, SoundCard, DVD/CD and the rest is usually fine to buy rather generic and cheap. They don't cost much anymore and the quality is decent enough. So if not buying the most expensive you can replace such components often if they break (outside warrenty).

I'm not really going to give you any brands or makes or anything - because these days computerbuilding is generally much more about taste then actual quality. In the old days you had to make sure the components you bought were quality otherwise you'd run into problems.

Oh, and remember to make a list of all that you want, and don't buy the components from 1 shop. Shop around (I do it online) and find the cheapest place to buy each and every component - that is why building computers yourself can be rather cheap compared to off-the-shelve.

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:14 am

High budget:
Athlon 64 3000+ Socket 939 - $155
Socket 939 Motherboard with 4 RAM slots - $100
2x512MB paired Cosair Value DDR400 RAM - $200
Geforce 6800GT - $400
500W Power Supply - $50
Case - $50
160GB hard disk - $90
LG multiformat DVD writer - $75
Additional cooling - $50
Decent 17" LCD with DVI and 16ms response time - $300
Decent 2.1 speakers - $50
Mice and keyboard - $30
Floppy drive - $10

Total: $2730 with monitor, speakers and accesories

Mid-budget:
Athlon 64 2800+ - $130
Socket 754 motherboard with 3 memory slots - $85
2x512MB Corsair value RAM DDR400 - $200
Geforce 6600GT AGP version - $230
LG multiformat DVD writer - $75
120GB hard disk - $75
450W PSU - $50
Case - $50
17" CRT - $150
Decent 2.1 speakers - $50
Mice and keyboard - $30
Floppy drive - $10

Total: $1135 with monitor, speakers and accersories

Low-budget:
Sempron 2400+ - $65
Socket 462/A motherboard with 3 memory slots - $60
512MB Corsair Value RAM DDR400 - $80
Geforce 6600GT AGP version/Radeon 9600XT - $230/150
80GB hard disk - $60
350W PSU - $35
Case - $50
LG multiformat DVD writer - $75
17" CRT - $150
Decent 2.1 speakers - $50
Mice and keyboard - $30
Floppy drive - $10

Total: $815/935 with monitor, speakers and accesories

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:14 am

The most important thing, IMO, is to find an 1) intelligent, 2) reputable tech person who 3) communicates well, and will provide a 4) service agreement if something goes wrong later, and 5) honor it in a timely fashion. I'm not suggesting this sarcastically. There are quite a few people that will build you a computer these days who meet these goals in general, though they tend to be over-burdened with work.

For the rest, they'll probably have a series of standard parts, each costing a certain amount, that they can interchangeably slot into any computer build you want. Take their info, then get back here. Post what they offer, and at what charge.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:04 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]I am hoping to replace my computer in the next six months, and after researching the subject and consulting various people I've concluded that it would be best to have one built.

However, I really do not know very much about computer components, and the average guy in the shop is going to realise very quickly I couldn't figure out the difference between two different video cards without testing them first if my life depeded on it.

Hence, I'm asking for a little advice

So let's say I asked some of you techies to build me a machine, what would you build me? I am looking for something mid-to-high end, basically a good, solid computer that is likely to meet my needs for the next 3 to 4 years. I use a computer for internet, email, gaming, Word documents etc.

Cheers for any replies

[/QUOTE]

Questions:

1) How much do you care about your monitor?
(i.e. an LCD screen is gonna cost way more than a normal monitor)

2) What type of games are you gonna be playing? In terms of graphics demand? (A gaming comp and a normal comp are way different)

3) How much do you care about sound quality?

4) Do you want it to be quiet?

5)How much space do you really need?
(i.e. unless you put a movie archive on there 40gb is enough for the HD)

This is basically because "solid computer" is dependent on what your going to do with it. If you play very demanding games i.e. your gonna need a really good graphics card... maybe an ATI Radeon 9600 i.e. Even for general use... everyone has their own personal preferences... I play a lot of games with the sound off i.e. so I don't care about sound, but I do know that others do.

QUick note:
For the high end computer maybe add in dual-channeling and hyper-threading. Get a weaker monitor and switch the Geforce with the ATI equivalent (its quieter). Just suggestions

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:57 am

I must admit that I fail to see the usage of a Hyperthreading CPU unless you infact will do some multitasking. So for pure gaming I wouldn't give it much thought - unless you need to run two games simultanious. Not saying you could/shouldn't get it and possible get some usage out of it - but I'd worry more about other things first and just take HT if it comes with the CPU you want.

As for graphics cards - well I just recently upgraded to a ATI 9800XT 256 MB RAM and it is pretty nice although somewhat expensive still. (Costed about the same I payed for my P4 CPU 2 years ago

)

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:18 am

I have only one advice. STAY AWAY FROM COMPAQ! Other than that all the other advices are good.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:07 am

[QUOTE=Yeltsu]I have only one advice. STAY AWAY FROM COMPAQ! Other than that all the other advices are good.[/QUOTE]

I disagree... some compaq computers are good. Though most desktops are crappy. I really like my EvoN400c laptop though... 3 pnds without a dock... Ive used it for 3 years and its still an effective comp for me

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:50 pm

[QUOTE=Ekental]I disagree... some compaq computers are good. Though most desktops are crappy. I really like my EvoN400c laptop though... 3 pnds without a dock... Ive used it for 3 years and its still an effective comp for me[/QUOTE]

Have you tried to upgrade a Compaq with new hardware? It's bloody impossible.
I have a compaq (my mom got it cheap through her job) and I have lot's of funny bugs that no one has ever seen before. (although that may just be microsoft trying to mess with my head)

So stay away from compaq, you just get silly problems! Go for something like Dell instead.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:10 pm

Well - when people build their own computers - they will likely not buy a machine from either Dell nor Compaq or any other brand for that matter

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:51 am

I've had the experience of my life when trying to open a (warranty expired) HP Pavillon. It is a chore to remove even the RAM.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:54 pm

Cheers for the advice

Basically, I think I'll be wanting a computer that is closer to the upper end, thinking about it. I want a 17 or 19 inch LCD monitor, a good graphics card for gaming, a decent sound card, and a large hard drive, not to mention plenty of RAM. This is why I am thinking of having a machine built.. the cost savings is significant, plus you have quality control. In addition to gaming, I also have a lot of music files, Jpegs and the like, and this eats up space like nothing.

Harbinger · Post by **Harbinger** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:48 pm

If I could make a recommendation pricewatch.com is an excellent resource for pricing individual components as it gives you a list from cheapest to most expensive. As has been said monitors and videocards will run you most if you want upper end options.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:53 pm

[QUOTE=Xandax]Well - when people build their own computers - they will likely not buy a machine from either Dell nor Compaq or any other brand for that matter

[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough, my first computer was a Compaq, and my present is a Dell. The Compaq was very good, but a pain to upgrade. My 4-year-old Dell, I have to say has been really excellent, and I have extended its life with a second hard drive and extra RAM. But I'm just getting to the point where it is no longer cost-effective to upgrade. My video card is barely managing, and I dearly want to replace my monitor, which is the old 15 inch Compaq I bought back in 1996. And, after having just checked a Sony Vaio at the Sony store, which was nearly 3 K, I am even more convinced that having a box built is the way to go. I mean.. I just about choked... I think I could get a really kickass gaming machine built, along with a nice LCD for significantly less than 3 K.

@Harbinger,
thanks for the tip, I'll definitely check out Pricewatch!

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:13 pm

You might wanna consider getting a external hard drive if your gonna store lots of music...

My friend has a 200 gb one that he uses fairly effectively to store various media. But then again hes a dist and starting to be a sub so maybe you'll only need a smaller external.

As for upgrading computers... well its hard to upgrade ANY laptop period
But upgrading your desktop is easily done on your own... though apparently you void the warrenty.

Nways im betting you could manage a comp like the one you describe with a $2000 budget.

Ill post the exact parts later... its sitting on this comp right now but its kinda old I have to update some stuff.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:14 pm

Or consider using DVD media to store all your music and video.

Name brand computer manufacturers tend to make their components proprietary so you simply cannot upgrade. They do this in hopes of compelling you to buy a new computer instead of adding to the one you have. Compaq and HP (now one company) are notorious for this, although Dell and Gateway do some of it, too.

As our friend Xandax recommends, you want to start by setting a price you are willing to pay and then buy the best computer you can put together for that price.

If you are looking for a low-end machine that will handle internet surfing, low-end games, word processing and simple multi-media activities, you are better off buying one from Dell and adding some extras (ie-a second HDD and more RAM). You can often find these in the $600-900 range (no monitor included). Plus, they also often have a warranty that is longer than a shop's.

If you are looking for a mid-range or high-end computer, you are much better off either building it yourself or contracting a shop to build it for you. However, if you are going to have a tech or a shop build it for you, you had better trust them or you are going to be in a world of hurt if/when it breaks down. I've also found the website http://www.cyberpowerpc.com has some good prices, although I do not have any experience with their service.

One other thing to consider is this: are you also going to be upgrading your other compoents, or will you be using your existing peripherals (monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.)? If you are going to keep everything except what's in the case, you should have one built for your.

You might also consider keeping some of your other existing hardware. A HDD, your optical drives, network card and some other things could be recycled into a replacement machine.

A good shop wil move your current hardware into a new computer for you.

If you are going to go with an unbranded computer, be aware that you will either have to assume some of your own technical support or you will have to rely on support that is not 24/7 like Dell's. fable makes this point quite well. However, you are apt to get more value for your dollar if you have a machine custom-built for you.

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:54 pm

For LCDs, you'll want 16ms response time at the least, and if possible a DVI interface.

Never EVER go below 512MB RAM. Use Celeron/Sempron if you have to, but try your best to get 1GB RAM.

An 80GB HDD will fill up faster than you can blink even if you aren't a download freak or aren't using it to record videos. 160GB is recommended.

For CPUs, I strongly recommend AMD over Intel, especially the Athlon 64s. The Athlon 64s have more than one socket types, so make sure you ask the tech if the motherboard is compatible.

As said, 1GB RAM and 160GB HDD if possible.

If you're considering newer games, the bare minimum is 9600XT. I have a 9800SE which is about as fast, and I always wonder how anything slower than that can even run games. For about $200 you can get the 6600GT which will play any game in the next two years, but if your budget is sufficient, get a 6800 or 6800GT. If you go AMD, AGP is your only choice, and right now ATI has very few AGP cards worth considering.

If possible, get a DVD writer. The older ones are slower in reading DVDs/CDs and in writing CDs, but the capability to write DVDs are well worth it. Always get a drive that can read and write as many formats as possible. Right now, they are DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, DVD-DL, and DVD-RAM. Try and find one that is compatible with at least the first three formats, so you don't have to worry when buying discs to burn.

Integrated sound is enough for most users, or you can move your old sound card over if it's better. If you have to buy a new one, get the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:53 pm

[QUOTE=Rookierookie]For LCDs, you'll want 16ms response time at the least, and if possible a DVI interface.
<snip>[/QUOTE]

There is much more to buying LCD screens then simply refresh rate - although as a rule of thumb I'd agree.
Be sure to view it in action before buying a LCD if possible (high-end games and movies or what you will use it for), or be sure to at least get a number of user reviews on the screen.

tom the terribl · Post by **tom the terribl** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:32 am

Building a PC

I recommend going Intel main board. Fry's and other general pc shops will have them. Besides getting an advanced board Intel provides good support from their web site. Intel is the bast all around CPU. They have long time agreements from application providers to include fast access to program modules from EPROM inside the microprocessor. AMD is a general purpose CPU without the same ROM information so it will be slower in processing applications. The CPU prices has come down each year and you can get a cpu for 25% or less than just four years ago.

Get a case with a power supply and 4 fans. I have a mid tower with 5 fans and power supply for $86 from Fry's.

Consider 1 GB of memory; Windows Xp with internet security, printer drivers and windows drivers can reach 512 MB while playing a game. Right now my PC is using .848 GB while playing DSLOA Online and on this web sight.

Consider a good Nvida video card for your PC. They have an array of cards but I recommend a board with 256k memory on the card. That way you can play a game with maximum detail and most complex shadows. Note the output of your video card must match the input to your new monitor.

If you don't have power strips get them. Get two or three for better glitch protection. You can daisy-chain them if desirable.

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:21 am

I recommend going Intel main board. Fry's and other general pc shops will have them. Besides getting an advanced board Intel provides good support from their web site. Intel is the bast all around CPU. They have long time agreements from application providers to include fast access to program modules from EPROM inside the microprocessor. AMD is a general purpose CPU without the same ROM information so it will be slower in processing applications. The CPU prices has come down each year and you can get a cpu for 25% or less than just four years ago.

Wrong. An AMD CPU costing half as much as an Intel CPU can often almost as fast. The Sempron 3100+ costs less than an Intel 2.8EGHz CPU but is faster. The recent Prescotts all have serious cooling problems. Besides, a marginally faster CPU would NOT give significant performance gains in gaming or in just about everything else.

The "Intel = stability and speed, AMD = slow and hot" mentality has gone out of fashion since the Athlon 64 came about. Currently, Intel is getting owned in almost every price range, from office CPUs to high-end servers.

Consider a good Nvida video card for your PC. They have an array of cards but I recommend a board with 256k memory on the card. That way you can play a game with maximum detail and most complex shadows. Note the output of your video card must match the input to your new monitor.

Erm... 256k?

A 256MB Nvidia graphics card can mean anything from a 5200 with 256MB to a 6800 Ultra with 256MB. The latter is 10 times faster than the former, literally. Graphics memory is THE most misleading stat of a graphics card. I've seen people with a 256MB 9250 PCI boasting that they have an uber graphics card, when in effect they have what is one of the slowest cards on the market.