dragon hoards

Stoner Cold · Post by **Stoner Cold** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 12:15 pm

why don't dragons have hoards in BG2??

firkraag has a sword, his scales, some money and thats it.
no huge piles of wealth, no mountains of gold and gems, no bed of treasure and no immensly strong weapons taken from past heroes they have killed.
whats up with this?
i want my treasure!

ColinK · Post by **ColinK** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 12:39 pm

Probably he (red dragon) was not that strong, remember Gorion and co bettered him in the past as he so states. As for mountains of gold, well they probably kept out for balance reasons, just think of how many weapons you could have cromwell forge if you had all that gold.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:10 pm

I think if he had all that fat lewt it would take a bunch of wagons to get it all out.

Firkraag is such a weird dragon anyway - he has a staff, and golems, and he's traveling around, messing with people in human form.

Maybe he has a big old mansion somewhere else where all the real treasure is. Like Puff Daddy. Hey wait a second - Puff?

Quest Master · Post by **Quest Master** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:19 pm

I've frequently been bothered by this as well. Remember the first time you killed a dragon in BG? I bet you were ecstatic to collect the horde ... only to find ... a comparitively paltry dropping of goods.

I guess this is just straight game balance, but I'd be real happy to hear a convincing 'explanation' in game terms.

Maybe the Dragons of BG keep their hordes in safe desposit boxes?

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:27 pm

I can give a good game balance reason:

Carsomyr is a Quest item: You cannot get Carsomyr without becoming a dragon slayer. So...make it an item on the dead dragon, but only /once/ it is dead.

Similar argument for the others - Scroll for Crom Feyr, the Rillifane artifact in Suldanessalar.

If the stuff was in a hoard you could just send in a thief to steal the stuff while the party keeps the dragon busy, then run for the hills with the loot.

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:31 pm

I can give a good game balance reason:

Carsomyr is a Quest item: You cannot get Carsomyr without becoming a dragon slayer. So...make it an item on the dead dragon, but only /once/ it is dead.

Similar argument for the others - Scroll for Crom Feyr, the Rillifane artifact in Suldanessalar.

If the stuff was in a hoard you could just send in a thief to steal the stuff while the party keeps the dragon busy, then run for the hills with the loot.

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:32 pm

Oops! Posted twice.

Apologies all.

Musashi Miyamoto · Post by **Musashi Miyamoto** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:33 pm

Blah about that mountains of gold, blah, i have over TWO HUNDRED thousand gp of gold, even after buying linearly hundreds of expensive items. in my current game, (((and ive seen it execussive of a couple million GP but that was with a solo char, with a party its usualy lower like round 200k))) and this is just 3/4 the way in SoA, heard that the gold in ToB was utterly rencious.

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Musashi Miyamoto ]

Quest Master · Post by **Quest Master** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:42 pm

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. For balance purposes, the reason is obvious. But from a roleplayers point of view, what's up?

Maybe Firkrag knew we were coming and hid it ... In that bottomless pit behind his lair? You know the one were the floor suspends itself on nothing?

Stoner Cold · Post by **Stoner Cold** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:48 pm

no, that'd be stupid, dropping into a bottemless pit, unless he can fly really fast.
he'd just drop it in, kill me, and fly down faster than the loot was falling, grab it and fly back up. hmm, that'd have to be over 120 mph. wow.

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:55 pm

Ahh..from an RP point of view? That's different.

Since he has minions, most likely he'd keep it in a location they couldn't get to. After all, he's chaotic evil, no reason at all for Firkraag to trust anyone with access to his hoard. The outer chamber he resides in his 'playpen' where he meets new and interesting adventurers, and eats them?

Or maybe the treasure IS all there, sort of. Maybe it's buried under some of the nice tile he keeps his lair done under. Maybe there is a secret door leading to where he /really/ sleeps (Potentially the hole that was mentioned?).

How about this - being a creature of ancient and legendary magics, maybe his hoard is in a prime material pocket on the astral or ethereal plane, and he simply planeshifts to it when he wants stuff, or to sleep.

KillerKid · Post by **KillerKid** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:01 pm

as i recall that little bottomless pit u guyz are talking abuot isnt there its that, the spot u guzy are taklign about where it says that it goes on forever that is where he is didnt ug uyz notice that u hear a loud roar that is firky where u kill him at geez there isnt anything spiritual

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:05 pm

Um...if I understand you correctly K2, you're asking if we noticed the 'bottomless' pit in the rooms before you go down the stairs to where Firky is lairing, right?

Of course we did, that's why we mentioned it, but since a dragon can fly, what's bottomless to us groundlings is hardly bottomless to him. There is also the possibility that there is a side cave or something that he could be using as his 'real' lair...bearing in mind we're talking about at CRPG.

I had a lot of fun making the roar noise the first time I played the game btw.

Quest Master · Post by **Quest Master** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:06 pm

Not that you mention sleeping in the pocket dimension... You may be right.. Did you see a bed in there? I didn't!

Stoner Cold · Post by **Stoner Cold** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:08 pm

umm, translation, someone, please?

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:14 pm

I met Ernie Banks once, Underdog, does that count?

Seriously though - I'm afraid I'm too much of a geek to pay much attention to sports. Too much time RPGing or CRPGing or MU*ing. Plus I don't watch TV...no reception, and I can't afford cable. ^_^

If you work hard enough at it you can rationalize /anything/.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:17 pm

The room right before firkraag's chamber with tazok and digdug has quite a collection of jewelry. rogue stone, star sapphire, 3 king's tears and some other stuff. So that could count somewhat for his loot. Plus, he likes being in human form and messing with people. No doubt he flaunts his wealth on wine, women, and song.

Stoner Cold · Post by **Stoner Cold** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:25 pm

a few gems, some women, a bit of wine and song. wow, that accounts for all of his wealth.

he cant be a very rich dragon, then
ok, how about the other two dragons in the game? and then the one in ToB?

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:29 pm

Extradimensional lairs seem possibilities, or else in the case of the Shadow Dragon maybe it was just such a wimp that the Shade Lord (*cough*ULTRAWUSS*cough*cough*) used his magics to steal it? Or maybe the Shadow Dragon was stripped of treasure when the Amaunator folks imprisoned it.

For that matter the ToB Dragons could well have been stripped too, since Watcher's Keep is a prison.

The dragon in Suldanessalar - that one's easy; Irenicus bound it, and took the hoard to fund his operations across the lands. Building those technomagical tubes and stuff couldn't have been cheap!