What makes a great RPG?

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:41 pm

[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Fable: So, if I understand you correctly it was more a question of company policies here, rather than PS:T doing badly?

I know nothing about game development and the game industry, but it was a pity the whole project was abandoned, and for people like me and DW it's a pity that there are so few interesting games around.[/QUOTE]

Pen and Paper D&D is really the best type of RPG if you have a good GM. Since the worlds and rules can be mixed up anyway you want and there's freedom for wtver. More spells that are considered "useless" but give the game a lot more chances for experimentation. Though I think GURPS is the best pen & paper i've played so far. XD

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:47 pm

[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Fable: So, if I understand you correctly it was more a question of company policies here, rather than PS:T doing badly? [/quote]

It was more a matter of the interpretation of "doing well." I know of some excellent films that never got made--as perhaps you do, too--because the studios in question could have made a good deal of money with them, but preferred making a great deal of money with something else. PS:T sold well. But Interplay's money folks had seen it as an investment that was supposed to yield the revenues of the original BG. It didn't, and then to crown that, BG2 came along, and did. Therefore, it follows that the BIS folks who did PS:T did it all wrong.

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:20 pm

[QUOTE=Ekental]Pen and Paper D&D is really the best type of RPG if you have a good GM. Since the worlds and rules can be mixed up anyway you want and there's freedom for wtver. More spells that are considered "useless" but give the game a lot more chances for experimentation. Though I think GURPS is the best pen & paper i've played so far. XD[/QUOTE]Yes, the board games' place in this world is sadly diminishing... not just D&D in particular but all great games that create hours of fun family time.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:58 am

In the older days I would have said "freedom" but after playing Morrowind I'll venture away from that aspect again, because it dosen't really add much in it self.

There are many components in what makes a great RPG, but the main ones I'd say is interactibility (is that even a word) and "life" in the game world.

The game world must reflect what choices you make through the game, and respond accordingly.
Help the Lord of the lands do something and the peasents would react to it, as the Lord will. Don't help and you get another reaction from all involved parties and also related parties. The peasents in the nearby lands would have heard about your actions and react appropiate.

Also the NPCs must be alive and life their lives. They must travel around, do their things and have their own adgendas, they must "live" like the player isn't the only reason for them to be placed there.

I can think of many other things that belongs in what makes a great RPG, but these are likely my main points.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:34 am

I really liked the pseudo freedom of Morrowind, and I think that it will increase with Oblivion. I also agree taht NPCs need to be there for their own reasons, not as atmosphere fro the character. I think Oblivion will do this too. I am surprised that a liscense was even released for Planescape as WOTC wants to do away with that setting. At least that was my understanding of the situation.

BTW, happy B-Day Xan.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:58 am

There are many factors that need to be considered when making an RPG. But what makes one "great," IMO, is its ability to come as close as possible to turning the environment into a genuine reality for the player. This means the ability to interact with as many objects as possible--something that's really not been attempted on any considerable scale in a single-player RPG since the pair of Ultima VII games, their add-ons, and the "Ultima world" (not Ultima Underworld) pair of games. That also goes for shopkeepers who keep regular hours, lock up at night, and go home.

BG2 is the closest I've seen to an RPG where your companions actually seem to possess their own way of looking at things. This is due to the Jagged Alliance series, where the mercs you hired would sometimes reveal hatred for one another, or quirks that affected their battlefield performance. In BG2, your teammates will argue, leave you under certain circumstances, demand their quests be finished, fight, flirt, or even take control of the situation in a few circumstances. Again, this only increases the roleplaying sense of the RPG.

Similarly, the actions and comments of locals should reflect actual conditions in the fantasy world. If there's a blockade of a port in progress, it follows that prices should steadily increase. People should become more surly, and shops might close. An invasion that isn't stopped should be reflected in the looting and partial burning of any town. If you become a valued customer, making frequent purchases of a particular merchant, their conversation should reflect this, along with possible discounts or advice. If you save some local's life, at least a few of their neighbors should be thankful.

Quests shouldn't be given at first acquaintance to unknowns. For me, this is the biggest drawback of anything created by the Troika folks. You're an unknown, you stop in a town, and somebody who has never met you before says "You look like you're pretty strong," when you're a wimp with all your stats in magic.

They then proceed to tell you about a plan they've hidden for years to destroy something or somebody, which they feel you'll help them with. Riiiiight. Quests should be parcelled out carefully, according to growing reputation, and only with those social elements whose trust you gain.

Superfluous knowledge. I like plenty of books, lore, and additional materials in an environment that enhance the flavor of the environment, without necessarily coming into play. That to me is what roleplaying is all about: assuming a role in a virtual reality, with emphasis on the reality part.

JSPCHIEF · Post by **JSPCHIEF** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:49 pm

What makes a great RPG to me is "PC development". I like the stories and the NPCs, but the thing that really drives me is improvement of my character. I like to be able to change the way he looks, I like the excitement of finding and using new items, and I like to be able to continually improve in skill and implement new skills. I've always taken great satisfaction from reaching a point where a foe that had been brutally tough in the past, has suddenly become practice for my retirement as a butcher. The way I "role play" in my head, I enjoy getting to the point where I know I'm an insanely talented thief, or that I look like something from the tales of old with my new armor, or that legends will be spun about the way I wielded my magical axe. Customization is also a big part of this. Video game RPGs are obviously limited by the need to put the "goods" into the game-play more than the little icon that represents your character. But I'd love a game that allowed me to create a truly 'one of a kind' character, not only in the stat sheet, but also in appearance.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:07 pm

[QUOTE=Ekental]Pen and Paper D&D is really the best type of RPG if you have a good GM. [/QUOTE]

I am sure you are right, but I don't like pen and paper games. I only tried it once, but I didn't like it, it's far too slow and time-consuming for me. Maybe it can be done differently, but from what I have heard from my role playing friends, I would not like it even if tried again.
If I had been interested when I was a teen (which I weren't, I was too busy running after boys back then) I would have had more time and be more flexible, but nowadays when my life is regulated by my experiments, I can't really do anything that involves agreements with other people on a regular basis.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:10 pm

On D&D, the most exciting aspect to me has always been how time-consuming it is. You end at a cliff-hanger sometimes and it may be a week or more before you can find out what is next. I always loved that. It does stink that you have to be able to depend on your group though. I really enjoy PnP and electronic gaming.